Jesus Failed according to Dispensationalism
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is this equivalent to asking what will prevent people in heaven from sin, if their will is truly free?
isn't that premise of the lie that Satan told Eve - that free will is only established by rejecting God?
well, He freely chose me so that i can freely choose Him. it's simply not true that one is 'only truly free' to act if they act evilly. consistency doesn't prove automation. but from the beginning He purposed me for that very freedom, predestining my will, because all life has its origin in Him who breathed it.
IMHO the simultaneity of true freedom and sovereign predestination is a mystery waiting to be revealed.
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When the dispies were trying to convince me and others of their error in school they said "You see, the prophets were looking over the mountain tops and their writings dealt with those things, but they didn't see what was going on down in the valleys, they only saw the peaks of the mountains. The church was down their in the valleys!"
You know, that way whatever a dispy says can just be made up stuff. Wait...never mind!
You know, that way whatever a dispy says can just be made up stuff. Wait...never mind!
Starting a thread with "Jesus failed" is edifying? And attacking Dispensationalism when you do not even know what it teaches is edifying? If you have a problem with Dispensationalism, why don't you keep it to yourself? And if you want to know what it actually teaches, why don't study up on it? And if you have no idea about all the prophecies relating to a redeemed and restored Israel, why don't you seriously study the prophets? And if you really do not understand the second coming of Christ, the establishment of the Millennium, and following that the establishment of the eternal Kingdom of God on earth, why don't you try and get a handle on that?
Let's put Dispensationalism aside for the moment and see what the Bible clearly reveals.
1. All the OT prophets prophesied of "the suffering of the Christ AND THE GLORY THAT SHOULD FOLLOW".
2. In the Olivet Discourse, the Lord said that after the Great Tribulation and the cataclysmic cosmic events that would shake the heavens and the earth, He would come with POWER AND GREAT GLORY.
3. At His mock trial, Jesus plainly told His enemies "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven" (Mt 26:64).
4. The apostle John started the book of Revelation by stating Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)
5. Jude quoted from the book of Enoch and said And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
6. Ezekiel, by Divine inspiration said about a redeemed and restored Israel (Ezek 37:21-28)
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Now, in view of all these Scriptures, can any Christian in good conscience and with a straight face claim that all of this has been fulfilled? And does this not show that Christ came the first time in humiliation as the Lamb of God, but He will come the second time with power and great glory as the King of kings and the Lord of lords? And all Jews living on earth at that time will be brought to their knees in mourning and repentance. That is not conjecture but Bible prophecy.
Let's put Dispensationalism aside for the moment and see what the Bible clearly reveals.
1. All the OT prophets prophesied of "the suffering of the Christ AND THE GLORY THAT SHOULD FOLLOW".
2. In the Olivet Discourse, the Lord said that after the Great Tribulation and the cataclysmic cosmic events that would shake the heavens and the earth, He would come with POWER AND GREAT GLORY.
3. At His mock trial, Jesus plainly told His enemies "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven" (Mt 26:64).
4. The apostle John started the book of Revelation by stating Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)
5. Jude quoted from the book of Enoch and said And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
6. Ezekiel, by Divine inspiration said about a redeemed and restored Israel (Ezek 37:21-28)
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Now, in view of all these Scriptures, can any Christian in good conscience and with a straight face claim that all of this has been fulfilled? And does this not show that Christ came the first time in humiliation as the Lamb of God, but He will come the second time with power and great glory as the King of kings and the Lord of lords? And all Jews living on earth at that time will be brought to their knees in mourning and repentance. That is not conjecture but Bible prophecy.
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I think you need to explain this a little further for out readers.
Maybe a pic of part of Clarence Larkin about might help - unfortunately yer need a 40 inch screen to read the full chart:
http://www.preservedwords.com/disptruth/images/3-peaks.gif
Maybe a pic of part of Clarence Larkin about might help - unfortunately yer need a 40 inch screen to read the full chart:
http://www.preservedwords.com/disptruth/images/3-peaks.gif
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do you notice that scripture is NOT given in defense of the op, but those who are in agreement, and ALL of whom can be found doing the same on the 'not by works' thread, offer jibes and mocking
EXACTLY as what is done wherever they all post together
the style is to gang up on a poster or if there are too many they mock at one time, then the offerings are simply dumped to whoever reads it...hopefully those they would like to aim at personally
as preacher here now refers to those who accept dispensationalism as a biblical doctrine...dispys
oh how cute and creative and typical of the style of preacher. these folks are not content to disagree, but seem to ace attacking personally (don't take my word for it...go check out the 'not by works' thread in which they systamatically gang up on one person
the end game seems to be to try and get someone so angry, they post ban worthy offerings and are subsequently dismissed
then the chuckles and lol's begin again
are we dealing with actual Christians here? or spammers who are just here to make trouble?
I'm seriously wondering and not joking at all
they ganged up on jens so bad in that thread, that someone actually asked jens to stop talking to them because, even though they didn't agree with his post, they felt bad at the fun being made of him
here they are making fun...nothing serious...but just drive by posts designed to inflame the site and make it seems like everyone but them is stupid
they flavor the entire place with their nastiness
EXACTLY as what is done wherever they all post together
the style is to gang up on a poster or if there are too many they mock at one time, then the offerings are simply dumped to whoever reads it...hopefully those they would like to aim at personally
as preacher here now refers to those who accept dispensationalism as a biblical doctrine...dispys
oh how cute and creative and typical of the style of preacher. these folks are not content to disagree, but seem to ace attacking personally (don't take my word for it...go check out the 'not by works' thread in which they systamatically gang up on one person
the end game seems to be to try and get someone so angry, they post ban worthy offerings and are subsequently dismissed
then the chuckles and lol's begin again
are we dealing with actual Christians here? or spammers who are just here to make trouble?
I'm seriously wondering and not joking at all
they ganged up on jens so bad in that thread, that someone actually asked jens to stop talking to them because, even though they didn't agree with his post, they felt bad at the fun being made of him
here they are making fun...nothing serious...but just drive by posts designed to inflame the site and make it seems like everyone but them is stupid
they flavor the entire place with their nastiness
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I think you need to explain this a little further for out readers.
Maybe a pic of part of Clarence Larkin about might help - unfortunately yer need a 40 inch screen to read the full chart:
http://www.preservedwords.com/disptruth/images/3-peaks.gif
Maybe a pic of part of Clarence Larkin about might help - unfortunately yer need a 40 inch screen to read the full chart:
http://www.preservedwords.com/disptruth/images/3-peaks.gif
I didn't hearken to Clarence Larkin.
One single thing that seems to be lacking in these discussions is that God is in control of everything. The idea that Jesus was sent the first time and then failed is more than ridiculous its blasphemous. Jesus didn't fail he set up his kingdom here with Jews running it. The reason for Israels existence was for God to create a kingdom of Priests whose divine purpose was to spread Gods kingdom throughout the world and bring humanity back into relationship with him. It wasn't God that failed but Israel as a nation. Anyone who reads the OT and the Prophets in particular will read of Israels failure. Over and over God calls Israel a Harlot and an Adulteress for falling into Idolatry and breaking the covenant relationship that God established.
Jesus warned the Jewish leadership time and again but they didn't listen . His Parable about the Vineyard says it all. It is a pity that just as that leadership made a fatal mistake in ignoring his warning. Christians now ignore it as well and those who do take notice are called Anti Semitic
Jesus warned the Jewish leadership time and again but they didn't listen . His Parable about the Vineyard says it all. It is a pity that just as that leadership made a fatal mistake in ignoring his warning. Christians now ignore it as well and those who do take notice are called Anti Semitic
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This is from leading dispensationalist leader Dwight Pentecost's book "Things to Come":
let's see something from scripture wherein you prove your theory
let's be serious here, and instead of you quoting authors who sound somewhat 'off' (if they do, who knows because while most of us do study scripture, we are not all on a witch hunt to DISPROVE the Bible)
while most post scripture, you come back with this
it isn't having the effect here it seems to have had on you and your frieinds
That "sentiment" expressed by Dwight Pentecost is the basic dispensational "theology" - until you get that then all you are doing is heckling in here.
I really don't think you have a clue about dispensational theology. I suggest you buy Pentecost's book "Things to Come" like I did and then come back with some informed "argument".
I really don't think you have a clue about dispensational theology. I suggest you buy Pentecost's book "Things to Come" like I did and then come back with some informed "argument".
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should we take up a collection and send you a Bible?
would that help?
I believe what I do from scripture. I post plenty of scripture. I can't remember when I last saw you post any
you do not respond to scripture either
as this is the BDF, maybe you should examine why you do not seem to use scripture but are chock full of arguments as to why the rest of us have it all wrong