Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
My purpose? I have explained it. Is to open the eyes of people who believe in the law and the imperfections of the law, Jesus established the Grace two commandments Love God and Love others.

Obiously you have no answers, this is why you asking my motives!
I ask your motives because you continue to post the exact same thing when there is already a discussion going on about it in your thread.

Is to open the eyes of people who believe in the law and the imperfections of the law, Jesus established the Grace two commandments Love God and Love others.And also for those who takes the old testament in a literal form, to show them the old testament actually makes God to say the cultural uses of those early days, and they protrait God a revengeful being who condones Genocide, rape of woman, slavery, and allow you to sell your daughters as slaves, and does not show the Loving God of the New testament, that Jesus came to show.
Yes, that is how you were coming across and why I asked. Your issue is with our Lord, there is no need to pretend that He did not say and command those things (The parts in the Bible are His, not the comments you wrote). I may find the time to go in to these issues with you and try to help shed light on this, but it's my daughters birthday so I'm not sure if I'll have time today. It appears others already are responding to your thread.

So what exactly are you trying to open peoples eyes to? That God is imperfect and cruel or that the entire Bible is not the word of God?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
To Jason0047
I disagree with your statement "Circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant and we can clearly see that such a seal could be broken." It cannot be broken according to the following scripture. Physical circumcision was not instigated through Moses. The Physical was the sign of the covenant with Abraham. circumcising of the heart was then endorsed from the writings of Moses for the first time, and is also a substantial part of the New Covenant.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:29

Colossians 2:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

See Deuteronomy 10:16 and Deuteronomy 30:6

Leviticus 12:3 is a carry over of the covenant with Abraham that was not initiated by the covenant with Israel.
No. The Scriptures say if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. This is talking about the Old Testament saint's spiritual circumcision of the heart and not their physical circumcsion. The same truth applies today for the New Testament saint. If they break the law of Christ, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. So they have to go to their advocate Jesus Christ and confess and forsake their sin. For sin has always been the cause of separation between God and man.
 
Last edited:
Mar 23, 2014
435
1
0
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
No. The Scriptures say if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. This is talking about the Old Testament saint's spiritual circumcision of the heart and not their physical circumcsion. The same truth applies today for the New Testament saint. If they break the law of Christ, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. So they have to go to their advocate Jesus Christ and confess and forsake their sin. For sin has always been the cause of separation between God and man.
You evidently didn't read all I posted. I don't disagree with what I quoted of you here in this post. I was only pointing out that physical circumcision was not instigated by the law Moses received. It was a sign of the Abrahamic covenant. Therefore circumcision in the law (Deuteronomy) and the New Covenant (Colossians) agree as the same thing, It is the circumcision of the heart in both cases. In both the OT law and the NT covenant, it is obviously a circumcision made without hands and not physical.

see this post
 
Last edited:
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
We all agree that Israel was rejected by God because they rejected His Torah/instructions/statues/law to follow other gods which is the doctrine of compromise called doctrine of Balaam. God promised blessing if they adhered to those instructions and cursings if they rejected them. Have we ever considered that the false doctrine of "separation of church and state" has been prevalent for years in the United States because we have also followed suit with Israel's failure? I'm not saying that the works of the law is for individual righteousness. I saying it contributes to proper self governing. That is only by faith in the word of God. Our forefathers in this country had that faith and wrote the constitution by that faith for the most part. Much of the principles listed in our constitution were taken from the Bible. Have we become so consumed with making the law void that we have set our country up for the same cursings as Israel in the OT?

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:9-10

Deuteronomy 11:26-28
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

When we see the tribulation in full swing (and it's very close) think about the comparison between ancient Israel, and modern day America. It will happen because God doesn't change unless we do, and then He will repent of the evil against us because of His grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
The whole point is that they [Israel] would not follow God. They rejected God as does the country we live in turn away from God daily.

Have we set up our country up for the same cursings as Israel in the OT? Those cursings were set up when Adam fell and gave over his dominion of the world to the adversary and it set in course the route that our country or even the world is set upon today. Are we not even told in scripture that things will wax worse and worse? [2 Tim. 3:13] This present heaven and earth will be destroyed - it's all in the plan. Does that mean we just ignore Godly principles? No, we shouldn't. I think when most say we are no longer under the law, that is not to say that Godly principles do not still stand but under the law for righteousness. We do not gain our righteousness any longer through the law.

 
Dec 9, 2011
13,787
1,736
113
Grace to do what exactly? To sin? Or to do that which is righteous and good? There is no inbetween thing between righteousness and sin. There are no inbetween kingdoms. One is either serving God or they are serving the devil (Which we can see by what they do). God is not against His own laws. He is against those trying to be justified or saved by a set of rules alone apart from Jesus Christ.
Grace through faith in the finished work of CHRIST to be in right standing before GOD and receive eternal life.

Then you will be able to renew your mind in truth so that you can prove that good and perfect will of GOD.

GOD is not against his own laws but if you are talking about the ten commandments then you are on your own and have not learned that you need Grace

but if you are talking about the two commandments then if you sin then GOD is faithful to forgive us of our sins if we confess our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. Deuteronomy 13:5 Deuteronomy 17:7 Deuteronomy 19:19 Deuteronomy 22:21-24 Deuteronomy 24:7
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:21

There are more instructions that do not refute the New Testament. Bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to the innocent.

One more thing. Many think that killers might accept Christ as there Savior after they are imprisoned. I would say that is very true, but if they knew they were to face the death penalty in every case, they may not have been imprisoned in the first place. Our prisons are already over crowded. Just sayin'
Bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to the innocent. . . .This isn't necessarily so - just saying.

And I agree our justice and penal system stinks!!!!!
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
The whole point is that they [Israel] would not follow God. They rejected God as does the country we live in turn away from God daily.

Have we set up our country up for the same cursings as Israel in the OT? Those cursings were set up when Adam fell and gave over his dominion of the world to the adversary and it set in course the route that our country or even the world is set upon today. Are we not even told in scripture that things will wax worse and worse? [2 Tim. 3:13] This present heaven and earth will be destroyed - it's all in the plan. Does that mean we just ignore Godly principles? No, we shouldn't. I think when most say we are no longer under the law, that is not to say that Godly principles do not still stand but under the law for righteousness. We do not gain our righteousness any longer through the law.

I agree with you as far as esteeming God's principles, but we should never become apathetic by inadvertently denouncing the truth in the law that would give any nation the freedom to self govern properly as God wants for mankind. Israel was God's chosen people for a witness to the whole world, and all nations back then had heard about the exodus and the strength of Israel which was God. Obeying the laws God has given doesn't save us by works alone on a personal basis. Never has and never will.

Israel was and is a country as we are. The curses to a nation were defined in the law. As we (once classified as a Christian nation) reject those laws given to Israel via religion, dribbling over into a corrupt congress, and administration, we will suffer the same fate as Israel simply by not esteeming and observing God's truth concerning government. The number 12 (tribes and disciples) represents perfect government.

God loves us, and He would never do anything through His instructions to damage us unless we turn away from Him as Israel did and we have. If it's right in front of us, we should surely pay attention. The question is, why is the church so against the law for the most part? Why is it that we have such a hard time incorporating this truth into everyday life? God should never be separated from government. Has the church of today allowed this because we have rejected the law?
 
Last edited:
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
Bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to the innocent. . . .This isn't necessarily so - just saying.

And I agree our justice and penal system stinks!!!!!
It wouldn't if we would not have rejected exacting the law properly as a government by the people and for the people. We are over the edge I'm afraid. Remember, Satan is the destroyer and very very subtle. He always uses scripture to distort the truth.
 
Mar 23, 2014
435
1
0
I ask your motives because you continue to post the exact same thing when there is already a discussion going on about it in your thread.



Yes, that is how you were coming across and why I asked. Your issue is with our Lord, there is no need to pretend that He did not say and command those things (The parts in the Bible are His, not the comments you wrote). I may find the time to go in to these issues with you and try to help shed light on this, but it's my daughters birthday so I'm not sure if I'll have time today. It appears others already are responding to your thread.

So what exactly are you trying to open peoples eyes to? That God is imperfect and cruel or that the entire Bible is not the word of God?
God is Perfect, the old testament is not, the old testament is the image of the culture and uses of those early people and they accommodated God instructions to their convenience.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,787
1,736
113
What? That's crazy. I am sorry. How can you honestly say you stand for God and His goodness that is within His Word and then say that when you sin, you sin in the body but not in the spirit? If that is not the biggest license to sin and still be saved, I don't know what is. So you are basically saying you can get away with evil and still be in God's good graces. What about everyone else who does evil? Does having a belief on Jesus really make you a better person? No. But if you repent of your sins and accept Jesus for real, then you will be transformed spiritually whereby you will not want to sin against God and or other people. For you know the good guys from the bad guys by what they do. The Bible agrees with that line of thinking. For he that does righteousness is righteous.


Confession of sin is done with the intent that you will not do it again. It is not done so as merely to pay lip service. One has to actually turn from their evil ways and or strive to stop sinning with God's help. For if a man says he is sorry to his wife that he cheated on her, is he really sorry if he continues to cheat on her? No. That is not true repentance. Nor is it Godly sorrow.
Does the bible say that GOD is a spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.Does the bible say that those that are born of GOD cannot sin.Does the bible say in the new testament that the spirit was sealed.
If that be true and it is then the only place left to sin is the body and Paul told us to renew our mind.
That is not a license to sin.When GOD loves you like that you will not want to sin but you will want to please GOD..That's Grace.

Sounds like you are trying to help GOD out but without JESUS your work is not acceptable.
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
I agree with you as far as esteeming God's principles, but we should never become apathetic by inadvertently denouncing the truth in the law that would give any nation the freedom to self govern properly as God wants for mankind. Israel was God's chosen people for a witness to the whole world, and all nations back then had heard about the exodus and the strength of Israel which was God. Obeying the laws God has given doesn't save us by works alone on a personal basis. Never has and never will.
But Israel was made righteous by doing the commandments. Deut. 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. To the church of God, the body of Christ . . . But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.
Israel was and is a country as we are. The curses to a nation were defined in the law. As we (once classified as a Christian nation) reject those laws given to Israel via religion, dribbling over into a corrupt congress, and administration, we will suffer the same fate as Israel simply by not esteeming and observing God's truth concerning government. The number 12 (tribes and disciples) represents perfect government.
The whole world will suffer the same fate as Israel because of their rejection of God.
God loves us, and He would never do anything through His instructions to damage us unless we turn away from Him as Israel did and we have. If it's right in front of us, we should surely pay attention. The question is, why is the church so against the law for the most part? Why is it that we have such a hard time incorporating this truth into everyday life? God should never be separated from government. Has the church of today allowed this because we have rejected the law?
When we turn away from God and godly principles we suffer the consequences. But it wasn't just the fact of turning away from God's instructions - they rejected God - Period. Always going after other gods.

Well . . . I don't think that you can govern people to obey . . . that would be like making laws to establish how people should behave . . . those were already in place and they did not work. Men are men - no matter if one is a Christian and should be walking by the Spirit - it ain't always so . . . .

I believe that people just get so wrapped up in their own lives they don't take the time to stop and really see what is going on in the "world" around them. I know that I am guilty in that . . I don't like what is going on in the "world" so I basically don't watch any news or read any newspapers - everything is filled with such negativity
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
It wouldn't if we would not have rejected exacting the law properly as a government by the people and for the people. We are over the edge I'm afraid. Remember, Satan is the destroyer and very very subtle. He always uses scripture to distort the truth.
Well the distortion of our government began a LOOOOOONG time ago . . . Godly principles can't be exacted without godly men in governmental bodies . . . and from what I have seen that ain't happened.
 
B

Biblelogic01

Guest
Read the whole thing, don't just skim through it please.


Jeremiah 23:1-4
“Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” says the Lord. 2 Therefore thus says the Lord God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: “You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,” says the Lord. 3 “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking,” says the Lord.

Micah 2:12
“I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob,
I will surely gather the remnant of Israel;
I will put them together like sheep of the fold,[d]
Like a flock in the midst of their pasture;
They shall make a loud noise because of so many people.

Ezekiel 34
And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”

7 ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”— 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord! 10 Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”
11 ‘For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God. 16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”

17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”

20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’
31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.

Before continuing you need to understand a few things because I know someone will try to bring it up: 1 the Jewish religious leaders at this time were corrupt/hypocritical (which is why Yeshua would preach against the way they're teaching & leading). 2 I didn't post the rest of the chapter, but it goes into the Jewish leaders wanting to stone Yeshua. The reason why; because Yeshua claimed to be God. If they're corrupt and hypocritical to their teaching then of course they're going to think Yeshua is being blasphemous. So before you jump to think Yeshua is teaching against Jews, stop and think of the situation. 3 a little off topic in verse 22 it states about the feast of dedication, this feast has another name, and it's Chanukah. So Yeshua celebrate Chanukah :D

John 10:1-30
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.
7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came before Me[a] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?”

21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Matthew 7:1-
“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Now read through all of this carefully. This goes for both sides of the argument. One point one side would be to not judge others, and if you are, is it your place to judge? Another point, why did Yeshua talk about good fruit and bad fruit and then right after that says, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’?

At this time there is no other "law" outside of Torah. Well as far in the terms He's speaking.

Also before anyone goes into bringing up anything from Paul. This is our Messiah speaking, which to me trumps anything any apostle says, because the word of God is higher than that of man.

With that said I'm not saying Paul is wrong in his teachings, but his teachings are hard to understand, Peter even warns us of this. That's why I take my teachings from the Messiah.

Also for post that seemed strongly against Israel (I'm hoping that your just staying what happened and you don't have hard feelings towards Israel) because according to the prophets God is going to recollect Israel. And hate to be a bearer of bad news, Israel kept God's ways for quite a while with king David and Solomon, but they did slip away. Also as I said before, Read through all the prophets God's people are still Israel. When we come to Messiah and His ways, we are accepted as His people.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
I have just read the link, but do not address the issue in exodous 21, any force marriage is a rape.
open you eyes do not be dogmatic.
Well Bible times were not like our times today. Actually, women back then were desperate to be married so as to have financial protection and a family. It was something they desired. So these things were very important to a Jewish woman. In fact, there were certain duties a man had to perform as we can see in verse 10 in Exodus 21 (if a man was being unfaithful). This implies that the man had to keep certain marital obligations regardless of whether he was faithful or unfaithful. In other words, if a man failed to keep his duties towards his wife, she could go free.

https://books.google.com/books?id=l...omen forced to be married exodus 21:7&f=false

Did God allow his people to sell their daughters into prostitution in Exodus 21:7? | Evidence for Christianity

Viral Apologetics: The Law is Just (Pt. 2): Does Exodus 21:7-11 Promote Selling One's Daughter into Sex Slavery?

https://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/slavery-in-the-bible-25/#bride
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Grace through faith in the finished work of CHRIST to be in right standing before GOD and receive eternal life.

Then you will be able to renew your mind in truth so that you can prove that good and perfect will of GOD.

GOD is not against his own laws but if you are talking about the ten commandments then you are on your own and have not learned that you need Grace

but if you are talking about the two commandments then if you sin then GOD is faithful to forgive us of our sins if we confess our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Well, for one, if you were to have read what I had written so far within this thread, you would know I do not believe the Old Testament Law of Moses is in effect anymore. However, that does not mean God has not given us a new set of Commands or Laws under the New Covenant for us to follow, though. For yes, I do believe we are to love God and to love others as a part of the New Testament or New Covenant. But, believing in the finished work of the cross does not mean anything if a person sins and does not repent of such sin, though. Beliefs are good but one has to do more in this life then just believe and talk. One has to prove that there is faith is true by what they do. For if one's belief is true, then one's actions will properly be in line with their belief. I mean, what about the axe murdering crazy Bible fanatic? Is he saved? Is it any different with the Christian who hates his brother? According to John there is no difference between them.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Does the bible say that GOD is a spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.Does the bible say that those that are born of GOD cannot sin.Does the bible say in the new testament that the spirit was sealed.
If that be true and it is then the only place left to sin is the body and Paul told us to renew our mind.
That is not a license to sin.When GOD loves you like that you will not want to sin but you will want to please GOD..That's Grace.

Sounds like you are trying to help GOD out but without JESUS your work is not acceptable.
One's work is not acceptable and one does not have Jesus if they sin and refuse to confess and forsake that sin. For one is only fooling themselves that they are God's good servant if they are still doing evil. For it is God who works in the believer --- which is the proof that they have been saved. For God (Christ) is the source of their salvation (1 John 5:12). For one can say they can sin and still be saved all they like, but we both know that God would never condone willful evil or sin under any circumstance, though.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
You evidently didn't read all I posted. I don't disagree with what I quoted of you here in this post. I was only pointing out that physical circumcision was not instigated by the law Moses received. It was a sign of the Abrahamic covenant. Therefore circumcision in the law (Deuteronomy) and the New Covenant (Colossians) agree as the same thing, It is the circumcision of the heart in both cases. In both the OT law and the NT covenant, it is obviously a circumcision made without hands and not physical.

see this post
Well, I never said circumcision began with Moses. I have already written before here at CC about how circumcision was a part of the covenant God made with Abraham. It was an outward symbol or picture of his spiritual cirumcision he made with God (Which was upon their heart). That does not mean Paul was not referencing the Law of Moses when he was talking about how they should not go back to being cirumcised. Circumcision was carried or passed on into the Law of Moses.

https://www.gci.org/law/circumcision

https://www.gci.org/law/lawmoses
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,259
6,546
113
This would be where discernment figures into our understanding. I only refer to discerning truth, which is more than plenty for any brother or sister.

Yet, personal testimony cannot be in contradiction with God's Word, though. For let God be true and let every man be a liar.