Judas, Peter; & free will?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
O

One3Seven

Guest
#1
#1
Did they have really a choice or any free will in their actions leading upto and after Jesus's arrest?

By actions im talking of Judas's betrayl and Peter's denial.


Matthew 27:3 King James Version
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

&


Luke 22:62 King James Version
[SUP]62 [/SUP]And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

I have my thoughts on this, be interested to read yours


P.s; As a first time poster, a big hello to all who view this post.
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#2
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#2
Yes, and God foreknew their choices.


 
T_Laurich

T_Laurich

Senior Member
#3
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
63
29
#3
Remember Jesus also told Peter that he should stay up for the next hour and pray about 'denying Jesus 3 times'. He told Peter to ask the holy spirit for strength. Instead of praying, Peter fell back asleep from his own desire and temptations. I think this is just as powerful of a story as him denying Jesus 3 times. It showed that God gave him a way out. Like he promised.

1 cor 10:13
The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.


Also never forget, Jesus warned Judas multiple times through parables about money corrupting people. It is not like Judas was a blind man in a room filled with traps, I think many of us want to think that because we could turn it on our own lives. And say "well God has already damned me so I might as well not try".

Like starfield mentioned. God knew his heart. God also knew Simon/Peter's heart... Yet he tried to help both... And maybe I am alone in this thinking. But I have prayed for Judas, I secretly wish his last thought on this earth while he was hanging was, "Lord please forgive me if it is your will".
 
O

One3Seven

Guest
#4
#4
starfield said:
Yes, and God foreknew their choices.
Click to expand...
Hi SF thanx for your view; I maybe wrong in reading yr answer, but to yr answer suggests that in God's eyes, human behaviour/ actions are already known & determined; and Judas, Peter, everyones? actions are already defined.
As humans we may believe that we are acting on our free will to choose certain paths, but in Gods reality, we're all acting out a pre written script.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#5
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#5
One3Seven said:
Hi SF thanx for your view; I maybe wrong in reading yr answer, but to yr answer suggests that in God's eyes, human behaviour/ actions are already known & determined; and Judas, Peter, everyones? actions are already defined.
As humans we may believe that we are acting on our free will to choose certain paths, but in Gods reality, we're all acting out a pre written script.
Click to expand...
God knows the beginning from the end and the end from the beginning. God knows everything. God is never taken by surprise. God has given to man a free will. Man took the knowledge of good and evil in the garden. Man can choose right or wrong by his free will. God is sovereign and already knows what man will do at any point in time. God knows but He does not predetermine what man shall do. Our free will is contained in Gods sovereign will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
O

One3Seven

Guest
#6
#6
T_Laurich said:
Remember Jesus also told Peter that he should stay up for the next hour and pray about 'denying Jesus 3 times'. He told Peter to ask the holy spirit for strength. Instead of praying, Peter fell back asleep from his own desire and temptations. I think this is just as powerful of a story as him denying Jesus 3 times. It showed that God gave him a way out. Like he promised.

1 cor 10:13
The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.


Also never forget, Jesus warned Judas multiple times through parables about money corrupting people. It is not like Judas was a blind man in a room filled with traps, I think many of us want to think that because we could turn it on our own lives. And say "well God has already damned me so I might as well not try".

Like starfield mentioned. God knew his heart. God also knew Simon/Peter's heart... Yet he tried to help both... And maybe I am alone in this thinking. But I have prayed for Judas, I secretly wish his last thought on this earth while he was hanging was, "Lord please forgive me if it is your will".
Click to expand...
Hi SF; Yes i can understand your sympathies for Judas and how history Judges him rightly/wrongly;
I often myself have thought about his significant role in the events of Jesus's arrest especially after reading...

Matthew 26
[SUP]53 [/SUP]Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
[SUP]54 [/SUP]But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?



 
E

Elin

Banned
#7
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#7
T_Laurich said:
Remember Jesus also told Peter that he should stay up for the next hour and pray about 'denying Jesus 3 times'. He told Peter to ask the holy spirit for strength. Instead of praying, Peter fell back asleep from his own desire and temptations. I think this is just as powerful of a story as him denying Jesus 3 times. It showed that God gave him a way out. Like he promised.

1 cor 10:13
The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.


Also never forget, Jesus warned Judas multiple times through parables about money corrupting people. It is not like Judas was a blind man in a room filled with traps, I think many of us want to think that because we could turn it on our own lives. And say "well God has already damned me so I might as well not try".

Like starfield mentioned. God knew his heart. God also knew Simon/Peter's heart... Yet he tried to help both... And maybe I am alone in this thinking. But I have prayed for Judas, I secretly wish his last thought on this earth while he was hanging was, "Lord please forgive me if it is your will".
Click to expand...
Remember what Jesus said about Judas' eternal destiny: "None have been lost
except the one doomed for destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." (Jn 17:12)

"One of you is a devil." (Jn 6:70)
 
O

One3Seven

Guest
#8
#8
Elin said:
Remember what Jesus said about Judas' eternal destiny: "None have been lost
except the one doomed for destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." (Jn 17:12)

"One of you is a devil." (Jn 6:70)
Click to expand...
Hello Elin; My view of that text is that the Scripture to be fulfilled needed a Judas or how else would it have been fulfilled.
As it plays out, God would have known Judas from the day of Judas's birth that he was doomed although Judas himself would have known as much about this, as we can know what will happen to us/ the world tomorrow.
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#9
One3Seven said:
Hi SF thanx for your view; I maybe wrong in reading yr answer, but to yr answer suggests that in God's eyes, human behaviour/ actions are already known & determined; and Judas, Peter, everyones? actions are already defined.
As humans we may believe that we are acting on our free will to choose certain paths, but in Gods reality, we're all acting out a pre written script.
Click to expand...
God knew us even before we were formed (Jeremiah 1:5) thus our actions do not surprise Him. However, God did not predetermine people's actions for man is a free moral agent and free will operates within the confines of God’s permissive will. Basically, God foreknew that Judas would betray Jesus thus he was chosen as an apostle to fulfill scripture. God's foreknowledge and man's free will are compatible.
 
O

One3Seven

Guest
#10
#10
starfield said:
God knew us even before we were formed (Jeremiah 1:5) thus our actions do not surprise Him. However, God did not predetermine people's actions for man is a free moral agent and free will operates within the confines of God’s permissive will. Basically, God foreknew that Judas would betray Jesus thus he was chosen as an apostle to fulfill scripture. God's foreknowledge and man's free will are compatible.
Click to expand...
If not predetermined, what other word would you use in Judas's and Peters case. Fate?
God knows us men before they are born and in Judas's case would have known his destiny/ fate even before his conception.
Its thought provoking to think that from day one on entering the world, Judas was on a unalterable/ defined course/ pathway unknown to him that would inevitably lead him to Jesus. Dont mean to trivialise things, but it does remind me of Characters in a book not knowing how the book will end, or how their role will develop throughout the book; but we as the reader or the author do know because we have the power to turn to that last page!!?

In Peter's case, when told by Jesus he would deny him. Its as if the path is set and there is no way Peter will be able to alter the outcome.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#11
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#11
You know, I do not believe a loving God would create a person with a destiny of hell. He knows all the decisions we will make, but he also always gives a way out. Judas made the decisions he made but he was not created for hell but for heaven just all of us, free will truly is a pain isn't it? wouldn't it be so much better to just give god our free will and become his puppet? everyone has the same amount of chance to choose god even judas and peter, i think people over think stuff like this. We do not understand Gods ways or why he does the things he does, but if we look at the nature of his heart and just trust him because we cannot see as he does then then we will eventually be revealed the reasons he does what he does.
 
O

One3Seven

Guest
#12
#12
Blain said:
You know, I do not believe a loving God would create a person with a destiny of hell. He knows all the decisions we will make, but he also always gives a way out. Judas made the decisions he made but he was not created for hell but for heaven just all of us, free will truly is a pain isn't it? wouldn't it be so much better to just give god our free will and become his puppet? everyone has the same amount of chance to choose god even judas and peter, i think people over think stuff like this. We do not understand Gods ways or why he does the things he does, but if we look at the nature of his heart and just trust him because we cannot see as he does then then we will eventually be revealed the reasons he does what he does.
Click to expand...
Hi Blain; thanx for your view;
IMO It would be troubling to think that certain person/s are created destined for hell as you say.
But Im imagining that If God knows us before even birth/conception then ultimately he knows all about the individuals life & actions untill that person dies, and ultimately whether they will be Judged favourably or otherwise.
In the bible, there are examples of individuals seemingly born to carry-out certain roles/ acts (or should i say), born with a certain destiny/ path to fullfill. eg Judges 13:5.
As with Judas/ Peter, I wonder if Samson could have changed his seemingly predestined path given what is written in that given verse?
Hope this make sense.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.