Just a question! :D
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I knew an adherent of WatchmanNee a long time ago on another forum. He was a fanatical pre-millennialist.
Here is why:
Source
WatchmanNee seems to have been a fanatical adherent of JN Darby, Margaret McDonald. and Margaret E. Barber.
Here is why:
- Preterism, Partial Preterism, Postmillennial and Amillennial adherents will surely go to Hell according Rev. 22.18,19 and for their anti-Semitic beliefs of Systematic Replacement Theology. They reject the Jesus who will return to reign for 1000 years on earth with His overcomer believers. Is Jesus reigning with an iron rod right now? Of course not.
Source
WatchmanNee seems to have been a fanatical adherent of JN Darby, Margaret McDonald. and Margaret E. Barber.
hmmm how about this link Local Church | Christian Research Institute
I don't know of this. As I am an adherent of "replacement theology" as it is absurdly put, i.e. that spiritual Israel is the successor of physical Israel - although physical Israel was only ever accepted by God whilst acting in a spiritual manner, I could not imagine that I would find Watchmannee to my liking. I also strongly object to pre-millennialism. Christ is reigning now, and has total control. Just because people don't obey him does not mean he is not reigning now. See 1 Cor 15. Also, I find WatchmanNee's remarks in the passage I quoted above highly objectionable. Amillennialism is not "anti-semitic."
It is interesting how some have the audacity to actually think that Gentile Churches will replace the literal Israel. I agree with Gjolll that Jesus is Lord and will most definitely return to this earth and rule and reign with a rod of iron for a 1000 years from the world capitol Jerusalem in the predominant kingdom of Israel, as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the root and offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. I.E. the Great I am...the way the truth the life, the bread of life, the King of kings the One who came down from heaven to seek and save that which has been lost!
um...
gentile churches?
what on earth is a gentile church?
huh?
LOL.......
like...this is Sunday School stuff, isn't it?
Christianity 101?
Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
am i dreaming this?
people undoing what Jesus did?
amazing.
gentile churches?
what on earth is a gentile church?
huh?
LOL.......
like...this is Sunday School stuff, isn't it?
Christianity 101?
Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
am i dreaming this?
people undoing what Jesus did?
amazing.
well, i wonder if Dual Covenant theology
or Millennialism (a jewish fable) might be part of it
i wonder if making a distinction between jew and gentile might be part of it?
wait...did He come down to seek and save that which had been lost?
how did He make out?
epic fail?
Kingdom Postponed?
John 10
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
..
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
John 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
or Millennialism (a jewish fable) might be part of it
i wonder if making a distinction between jew and gentile might be part of it?
wait...did He come down to seek and save that which had been lost?
how did He make out?
epic fail?
Kingdom Postponed?
John 10
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
..
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
John 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Congratulations you have just made the top ten list for the most ridiculous things written by a professing believer here on CC. Jesus came to His own and they rejected Him. Jesus did not fail. Jesus purchased redemption for all the world just like it was planned from before the beginning of the world. It is men who fail when they reject Gods grace not God Who offers it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
um...
gentile churches?
what on earth is a gentile church?
huh?
LOL.......
like...this is Sunday School stuff, isn't it?
Christianity 101?
Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
am i dreaming this?
people undoing what Jesus did?
amazing.
gentile churches?
what on earth is a gentile church?
huh?
LOL.......
like...this is Sunday School stuff, isn't it?
Christianity 101?
Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
am i dreaming this?
people undoing what Jesus did?
amazing.
Hi Jangel
I started a thread here several months ago asking for input about the Local Church. There are some interesting responses there. At the time, I was doing some research on the Local Churches, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, and their teachings, because my boyfriend grew up and currently attends their church. I compared their core teachings against multiple respected translations of the Bible, I had discussions with my pastor as well as elders from my boyfriends church, and I attended the young adult's meeting of their congregation for several months to get some first-hand exposure to their teaching and practices. I also took various other opinions into consideration, such as the link you posted above from the Christian Research Institute. Of course, I prayed fervently the entire time.
After reviewing the teachings the Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, my first impression was something along the lines of "what in the world???" because the way they worded some of their ideas were very strange. HOWEVER, after I cross-referenced their material with some of their other teaching, I came to understand that for many things, they simply had a very unique way of explaining some of the same ideas that I have believed for years. It is my belief that part of the reason for this awkward wording may have been the language barrier: both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee are native Chinese speakers.
My pastor joined me in my research, and when it came to the basic, fundamental aspects of the Christian faith, he could find nothing unbiblical in their teaching. There are some differences in some of the more outlying, less important matters, but these differences are no larger than the differences between some of the more "mainstream" denominations.
That said, these are my personal observations. Don't take my word for it. I am no expert in studying the Bible. I did the best that I could to remain impartial, I tried to compare their teachings against the Word of God, I brought in the counsel of wiser Bible scholars such as my father and Pastor, and I prayed for discernment.
Currently, I still attend the young adult meetings and quite frankly they are the highlight of my week. Their church is a beautiful example of the church described in Acts. I am blessed to know them.
I started a thread here several months ago asking for input about the Local Church. There are some interesting responses there. At the time, I was doing some research on the Local Churches, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, and their teachings, because my boyfriend grew up and currently attends their church. I compared their core teachings against multiple respected translations of the Bible, I had discussions with my pastor as well as elders from my boyfriends church, and I attended the young adult's meeting of their congregation for several months to get some first-hand exposure to their teaching and practices. I also took various other opinions into consideration, such as the link you posted above from the Christian Research Institute. Of course, I prayed fervently the entire time.
After reviewing the teachings the Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, my first impression was something along the lines of "what in the world???" because the way they worded some of their ideas were very strange. HOWEVER, after I cross-referenced their material with some of their other teaching, I came to understand that for many things, they simply had a very unique way of explaining some of the same ideas that I have believed for years. It is my belief that part of the reason for this awkward wording may have been the language barrier: both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee are native Chinese speakers.
My pastor joined me in my research, and when it came to the basic, fundamental aspects of the Christian faith, he could find nothing unbiblical in their teaching. There are some differences in some of the more outlying, less important matters, but these differences are no larger than the differences between some of the more "mainstream" denominations.
That said, these are my personal observations. Don't take my word for it.
I am no expert in studying the Bible. I did the best that I could to remain impartial, I tried to compare their teachings against the Word of God, I brought in the counsel of wiser Bible scholars such as my father and Pastor, and I prayed for discernment. Currently, I still attend the young adult meetings and quite frankly they are the highlight of my week. Their church is a beautiful example of the church described in Acts. I am blessed to know them.
Hi Loveneverfails,
I am glad you replied and thanks for posting that thread too. I actually asked this not to know about them, but just to know the thoughts of people here about the Local Church, because I know this Church very well since I grew up in this Church.
I was randomly watching Christian songs on youtube and stumble on that video from CRI. I thought we are just a very small number of saints that nobody really cares to notice. And was surprised to know that from a respectable, reliable, and trustworthy scholar and researcher, they spent years of research about the Local Church and came to a conclusion that they were wrong before and that the Local Church is not only Christian, but it is in many ways an exemplary group of Christians.
We believe there should just be one Church in a city, but interconnected around the globe. So whether you are Catholics, Baptist or member of any denominatons, as long as you believe in God and Christ as the Saviour we consider you to be part in the Local Church. We don't have pastors, everyone is encourage to speak to share their spiritual gifts to everyone. Yes we do the breaking of the bread and drinking of wine every Sunday in remembrance of Christ's death, as we believe it is one of God's commandment for the believers. Watchman Nee made a big part of the birth of Local Churches but we never consider him as the founder of the Church like all these big names founded the different denominations. We only looked up to him as the rest of the apostles who continues the work for the building of the Church. We are just simply believers of Christ, gathered together for fellowship and enjoying Him.
Loveneverfails, I just recently got married and my husband was brought up in Southern Baptist teachings, and we never had issues with it. When I brought him to the Local Church, he blended in to everyone without any efforts.
But I don't know if your bf knows about this that there is division happened in Asia and even in the US. I actually belonged to what they call "the opposers of LSM". There was a big division happened around 1994. There was just some teachings before from Witness Lee that became a big issue and caused the division. With regard to the practices it is still the same and nothing changed, except the Morning Revival book thing we don't have that since we solely follow the Bible only. My prayers until now that time will come we will become one again.
I am glad you replied and thanks for posting that thread too. I actually asked this not to know about them, but just to know the thoughts of people here about the Local Church, because I know this Church very well since I grew up in this Church.
I was randomly watching Christian songs on youtube and stumble on that video from CRI. I thought we are just a very small number of saints that nobody really cares to notice. And was surprised to know that from a respectable, reliable, and trustworthy scholar and researcher, they spent years of research about the Local Church and came to a conclusion that they were wrong before and that the Local Church is not only Christian, but it is in many ways an exemplary group of Christians.
We believe there should just be one Church in a city, but interconnected around the globe. So whether you are Catholics, Baptist or member of any denominatons, as long as you believe in God and Christ as the Saviour we consider you to be part in the Local Church. We don't have pastors, everyone is encourage to speak to share their spiritual gifts to everyone. Yes we do the breaking of the bread and drinking of wine every Sunday in remembrance of Christ's death, as we believe it is one of God's commandment for the believers. Watchman Nee made a big part of the birth of Local Churches but we never consider him as the founder of the Church like all these big names founded the different denominations. We only looked up to him as the rest of the apostles who continues the work for the building of the Church. We are just simply believers of Christ, gathered together for fellowship and enjoying Him.
Loveneverfails, I just recently got married and my husband was brought up in Southern Baptist teachings, and we never had issues with it. When I brought him to the Local Church, he blended in to everyone without any efforts.
But I don't know if your bf knows about this that there is division happened in Asia and even in the US. I actually belonged to what they call "the opposers of LSM". There was a big division happened around 1994. There was just some teachings before from Witness Lee that became a big issue and caused the division. With regard to the practices it is still the same and nothing changed, except the Morning Revival book thing we don't have that since we solely follow the Bible only. My prayers until now that time will come we will become one again.
Hi Loveneverfails,
I am glad you replied and thanks for posting that thread too. I actually asked this not to know about them, but just to know the thoughts of people here about the Local Church, because I know this Church very well since I grew up in this Church.
I was randomly watching Christian songs on youtube and stumble on that video from CRI. I thought we are just a very small number of saints that nobody really cares to notice. And was surprised to know that from a respectable, reliable, and trustworthy scholar and researcher, they spent years of research about the Local Church and came to a conclusion that they were wrong before and that the Local Church is not only Christian, but it is in many ways an exemplary group of Christians.
We believe there should just be one Church in a city, but interconnected around the globe. So whether you are Catholics, Baptist or member of any denominatons, as long as you believe in God and Christ as the Saviour we consider you to be part in the Local Church. We don't have pastors, everyone is encourage to speak to share their spiritual gifts to everyone. Yes we do the breaking of the bread and drinking of wine every Sunday in remembrance of Christ's death, as we believe it is one of God's commandment for the believers. Watchman Nee made a big part of the birth of Local Churches but we never consider him as the founder of the Church like all these big names founded the different denominations. We only looked up to him as the rest of the apostles who continues the work for the building of the Church. We are just simply believers of Christ, gathered together for fellowship and enjoying Him.
Loveneverfails, I just recently got married and my husband was brought up in Southern Baptist teachings, and we never had issues with it. When I brought him to the Local Church, he blended in to everyone without any efforts.
But I don't know if your bf knows about this that there is division happened in Asia and even in the US. I actually belonged to what they call "the opposers of LSM". There was a big division happened around 1994. There was just some teachings before from Witness Lee that became a big issue and caused the division. With regard to the practices it is still the same and nothing changed, except the Morning Revival book thing we don't have that since we solely follow the Bible only. My prayers until now that time will come we will become one again.
I am glad you replied and thanks for posting that thread too. I actually asked this not to know about them, but just to know the thoughts of people here about the Local Church, because I know this Church very well since I grew up in this Church.
I was randomly watching Christian songs on youtube and stumble on that video from CRI. I thought we are just a very small number of saints that nobody really cares to notice. And was surprised to know that from a respectable, reliable, and trustworthy scholar and researcher, they spent years of research about the Local Church and came to a conclusion that they were wrong before and that the Local Church is not only Christian, but it is in many ways an exemplary group of Christians.
We believe there should just be one Church in a city, but interconnected around the globe. So whether you are Catholics, Baptist or member of any denominatons, as long as you believe in God and Christ as the Saviour we consider you to be part in the Local Church. We don't have pastors, everyone is encourage to speak to share their spiritual gifts to everyone. Yes we do the breaking of the bread and drinking of wine every Sunday in remembrance of Christ's death, as we believe it is one of God's commandment for the believers. Watchman Nee made a big part of the birth of Local Churches but we never consider him as the founder of the Church like all these big names founded the different denominations. We only looked up to him as the rest of the apostles who continues the work for the building of the Church. We are just simply believers of Christ, gathered together for fellowship and enjoying Him.
Loveneverfails, I just recently got married and my husband was brought up in Southern Baptist teachings, and we never had issues with it. When I brought him to the Local Church, he blended in to everyone without any efforts.
But I don't know if your bf knows about this that there is division happened in Asia and even in the US. I actually belonged to what they call "the opposers of LSM". There was a big division happened around 1994. There was just some teachings before from Witness Lee that became a big issue and caused the division. With regard to the practices it is still the same and nothing changed, except the Morning Revival book thing we don't have that since we solely follow the Bible only. My prayers until now that time will come we will become one again.
Anyway, I guess I already shared my thoughts. I believe their teachings are Biblical. As for the division that happened in the 90's, the funny thing is that I found out about that through my time of research, but my bf hadn't heard of it before.
O
Go to The Bereans: Apologetics Research Ministry then click new forum ten click Christianity and click The Lord's Recovery, look for bro. Pooch.
O
Hi Jangel
I started a thread here several months ago asking for input about the Local Church. There are some interesting responses there. At the time, I was doing some research on the Local Churches, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, and their teachings, because my boyfriend grew up and currently attends their church. I compared their core teachings against multiple respected translations of the Bible, I had discussions with my pastor as well as elders from my boyfriends church, and I attended the young adult's meeting of their congregation for several months to get some first-hand exposure to their teaching and practices. I also took various other opinions into consideration, such as the link you posted above from the Christian Research Institute. Of course, I prayed fervently the entire time.
After reviewing the teachings the Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, my first impression was something along the lines of "what in the world???" because the way they worded some of their ideas were very strange. HOWEVER, after I cross-referenced their material with some of their other teaching, I came to understand that for many things, they simply had a very unique way of explaining some of the same ideas that I have believed for years. It is my belief that part of the reason for this awkward wording may have been the language barrier: both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee are native Chinese speakers.
My pastor joined me in my research, and when it came to the basic, fundamental aspects of the Christian faith, he could find nothing unbiblical in their teaching. There are some differences in some of the more outlying, less important matters, but these differences are no larger than the differences between some of the more "mainstream" denominations.
That said, these are my personal observations. Don't take my word for it. I am no expert in studying the Bible. I did the best that I could to remain impartial, I tried to compare their teachings against the Word of God, I brought in the counsel of wiser Bible scholars such as my father and Pastor, and I prayed for discernment.
Currently, I still attend the young adult meetings and quite frankly they are the highlight of my week. Their church is a beautiful example of the church described in Acts. I am blessed to know them.
I started a thread here several months ago asking for input about the Local Church. There are some interesting responses there. At the time, I was doing some research on the Local Churches, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, and their teachings, because my boyfriend grew up and currently attends their church. I compared their core teachings against multiple respected translations of the Bible, I had discussions with my pastor as well as elders from my boyfriends church, and I attended the young adult's meeting of their congregation for several months to get some first-hand exposure to their teaching and practices. I also took various other opinions into consideration, such as the link you posted above from the Christian Research Institute. Of course, I prayed fervently the entire time.
After reviewing the teachings the Watchman Nee and Witness Lee, my first impression was something along the lines of "what in the world???" because the way they worded some of their ideas were very strange. HOWEVER, after I cross-referenced their material with some of their other teaching, I came to understand that for many things, they simply had a very unique way of explaining some of the same ideas that I have believed for years. It is my belief that part of the reason for this awkward wording may have been the language barrier: both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee are native Chinese speakers.
My pastor joined me in my research, and when it came to the basic, fundamental aspects of the Christian faith, he could find nothing unbiblical in their teaching. There are some differences in some of the more outlying, less important matters, but these differences are no larger than the differences between some of the more "mainstream" denominations.
That said, these are my personal observations. Don't take my word for it.
I am no expert in studying the Bible. I did the best that I could to remain impartial, I tried to compare their teachings against the Word of God, I brought in the counsel of wiser Bible scholars such as my father and Pastor, and I prayed for discernment. Currently, I still attend the young adult meetings and quite frankly they are the highlight of my week. Their church is a beautiful example of the church described in Acts. I am blessed to know them.
Originally Posted by zone
wait...did He come down to seek and save that which had been lost?
how did He make out?
epic fail?
Kingdom Postponed?
Congratulations you have just made the top ten list for the most ridiculous things written by a professing believer here on CC. Jesus came to His own and they rejected Him. Jesus did not fail. Jesus purchased redemption for all the world just like it was planned from before the beginning of the world. It is men who fail when they reject Gods grace not God Who offers it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Brother Roger...........methinks you missed the sarcastic wit in the post........and in the other post she wrote........just saying.
how did He make out?
epic fail?
Kingdom Postponed?
Congratulations you have just made the top ten list for the most ridiculous things written by a professing believer here on CC. Jesus came to His own and they rejected Him. Jesus did not fail. Jesus purchased redemption for all the world just like it was planned from before the beginning of the world. It is men who fail when they reject Gods grace not God Who offers it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Brother Roger...........methinks you missed the sarcastic wit in the post........and in the other post she wrote........just saying.
I have read Sit/Walk/Stand by Watchman. I think this is his best work with The Normal Christian life a distant 2nd. I have also read his 3volume
Work called The Spiritual Man where the first volume had some pretty good stuff but volume 2 and 3 started to take a path of introversion. Some have said Watchman wrote vol 1 but Witness wrote 2and 3. Who knows? I never knowingly read any Witness Lee only heard lot's of bizarre stories of his teaching from many sources.
Work called The Spiritual Man where the first volume had some pretty good stuff but volume 2 and 3 started to take a path of introversion. Some have said Watchman wrote vol 1 but Witness wrote 2and 3. Who knows? I never knowingly read any Witness Lee only heard lot's of bizarre stories of his teaching from many sources.