Just so heartbreaking

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WheresEnoch

Guest
#21
That's not what Jesus said.
Matthew 9, NASB
10 Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples.
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, "Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?"
12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.
13 "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

I think I'm glad I don't go to your church.

Colin is an unbeliever, and you call him "correct" in his thinking and understanding? How interesting!

For the record, no church should turn away the man they judge to be "unrighteous." We call sin sin, we gently correct those who would say they follow Christ but live in obvious sin, and we don't guess about no-so-obvious sin or judge that someone we "think" is sinning should be put out of the church. Paul did that, yes, but it was common knowledge of the sin in question because the sinful couple made no secret of their sin. Unless you have the evidence in hand, you cannot judge, for you will be judged as you judge. Sure you want to invite that into your life?
Matthew 7
1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
Yes, ColinCat does understand.

Jesus calls sinner's and so does the Church, but when we are born again, we are given the power to no longer be slaves to sin. If we love truly love Christ, we obey Him. Those who claim to know Him yet continue in sin are liars.

We are called to judge those in the Church, but not those outside. The problem is the majority of churches are so corrupt in their teachings, structure and practices that nobody even understands God's Word when they read it anymore. Many people say a sinner's prayer to escape destruction, but they have no intention of being obedient to God so they are never born again. It is not us who changes ourselves, it is a work of God and the Holy Spirit for those who love and obey Him.

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 5
you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Matthew 5
Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," (John 3:3).

"Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come," (2 Cor. 5:17)

Rom. 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

John 14

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth,


John 14
“I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. 3 You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
5 “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. 7 But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! 8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.
9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Hebrews 10
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#22
Yes, ColinCat does understand.
Yeah, it figures someone who teaches works-based salvation would endorse an unbeliever's view before he would believe God's truth.

Jesus calls sinner's and so does the Church, but when we are born again, we are given the power to no longer be slaves to sin. If we love truly love Christ, we obey Him. Those who claim to know Him yet continue in sin are liars.
How much sin is enough sin to make us liars, W/E? Tell me that.

Tell me you haven't sinned, W/E.

Tell me you haven't had so much as a bad thought.

Tell me you haven't been unrighteously angry in your heart.

You and I both know you can't do that, so tell me, W/E, how much sin is enough to separate us from God?
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#23
Yeah, it figures someone who teaches works-based salvation would endorse an unbeliever's view before he would believe God's truth.

How much sin is enough sin to make us liars, W/E? Tell me that.

Tell me you haven't sinned, W/E.

Tell me you haven't had so much as a bad thought.

Tell me you haven't been unrighteously angry in your heart.

You and I both know you can't do that, so tell me, W/E, how much sin is enough to separate us from God?


While I agree that our flesh is sinful, the sins that the flesh will continue to do are sins of thoughts and sins of fleshly reactionary attitudes. The Holy Spirit is more than capable to sanctify you from willful sin and entertaining evil thoughts. If a sinful thought comes into your mind or a sinful attitude, you stop it and submit it to the Spirit. If you continue to entertain such thoughts willfully then it is no longer your flesh committing the sin, but you. Our flesh needs to be in submission to the Spirit, the flesh will always be the flesh, but it can be subdued and tamed by the Spirit through our will. This is a foundational building block of following Christ and spiritual maturity . It is not optional, nor is it possible without the Holy Spirit

Those who call themselves brothers in Christ yet continue in practicing sin are on the path to destruction and should not be associated with.
 
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phil112

Guest
#24
Yeah, it figures someone who teaches works-based salvation would endorse an unbeliever's view before he would believe God's truth.

How much sin is enough sin to make us liars, W/E? Tell me that.

Tell me you haven't sinned, W/E.

Tell me you haven't had so much as a bad thought.

Tell me you haven't been unrighteously angry in your heart.

You and I both know you can't do that, so tell me, W/E, how much sin is enough to separate us from God?
I have to ask, what does your name viligant mean?
 

extio

Junior Member
Oct 17, 2014
3
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#25
maybe he meant to put vigilant?
 
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phil112

Guest
#26
maybe he meant to put vigilant?
Kind of what I figure, but man alive, a mistake that should have been caught sooner, eh? I also figure that's why he hasn't answered - he has realized what happened and is trying to "exit gracefully" :D

'Course, me and Angela can't help but notice spelling and punctuation. :)
 
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The_highwayman

Guest
#27
Yeah, it figures someone who teaches works-based salvation would endorse an unbeliever's view before he would believe God's truth.

How much sin is enough sin to make us liars, W/E? Tell me that.

Tell me you haven't sinned, W/E.

Tell me you haven't had so much as a bad thought.

Tell me you haven't been unrighteously angry in your heart.

You and I both know you can't do that, so tell me, W/E, how much sin is enough to separate us from God?


Thoughts are not Sin unless you give birth to them through your own flesh and lust...James 1.13-16...

Calvinist followers like you cannot fathom this, because of your reliance on unconditional election and predestination

If you are continually having bad thoughts, then renew your mind and capture every thought to the obedience of Christ!
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#28
Jesus calls sinner's and so does the Church, but when we are born again, we are given the power to no longer be slaves to sin. If we love truly love Christ, we obey Him. Those who claim to know Him yet continue in sin are liars.
The danger in failing to receive His grace in humble thankfulness and instead believe and teach that you have to walk through life being perfect is this:

1. You drive people away from Christ rather than lead people to Christ.
2. You fail at being perfect which leads non-Christians to think all Christians are hypocrites.
3. You fail at being perfect and snap under the pressure.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#30
Kind of what I figure, but man alive, a mistake that should have been caught sooner, eh? I also figure that's why he hasn't answered - he has realized what happened and is trying to "exit gracefully" :D
Or it could be I have a life and don't play on this site 24 hours a day. As I respond here, the tag on your post says it put up roughly 13 hours ago. You might want to check when my last post was yesterday.

When you posted this, I was teaching an addictions treatment theory class at a local university, then came home to my wife, relaxed, and went to bed.

'Course, me and Angela can't help but notice spelling and punctuation. :)
Perhaps you should examine satire a bit more than spelling and punctuation. Then you might discover the source(s) and the joke(s) behind my name.
 
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Dec 18, 2013
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#31
Saddly, the main church is closing down the branch we have enjoyed.
Long story short...
The main church's head pastor decided to allow practicing homosexuals to hold teaching and leadership positions in the church.
Scripture is clear about the requirements for any who hold positions of teaching, leadership and authorty.
The head pastor had already been allowing practicing homosexuals to hold these positions, with out any knowladge of the church body.
Our branch pastor resigned as he could not be in agreement with the direction of the church.
We support Him compleatly.
Saddly, the head pastor decided that since our pastor and church body did not agree, our church branch is being shut down.
We were never trully given any oppertunity to speak to our concernes, only the illusion of such.
How sad, that truth is being lost.

What is the most heartbreaking is not that our church is being shut down, but that the truth in Jesus, is being comprimised, lost, how many will be lost because of this?

So sad that the love of God, is being comprimised as aproval for those who need most to hear the truth.

May we all remain always faithful to the truth and love of Jesus, so that all will know how great and perfect the truth and love of Jesus is.

God bless
pickles
Might seem heartbreaking for now, but stay of good cheer. As you have said many still hold faith and love in Jesus. May your heart be mended.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#32
While I agree that our flesh is sinful, the sins that the flesh will continue to do are sins of thoughts and sins of fleshly reactionary attitudes. The Holy Spirit is more than capable to sanctify you from willful sin and entertaining evil thoughts. If a sinful thought comes into your mind or a sinful attitude, you stop it and submit it to the Spirit.
Everything you say is good, right up to here. Then you go off the rails.

If you continue to entertain such thoughts willfully then it is no longer your flesh committing the sin, but you.
That statement contradicts Scripture.

Romans 7, NASB
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Even that would be not so troubling if you hadn't gone too far right here.

Our flesh needs to be in submission to the Spirit, the flesh will always be the flesh, but it can be subdued and tamed by the Spirit through our will.
Our will lies in that same flesh that is powerless to do good, so how is our will going to "commandeer" the Spirit's power to fight sin? It can't! It won't! It is not our will, but our submission of our will to Christ that enables us to resist Satan and the sin with which he tempts us. But you get totally confused and contradict yourself with the very next line you post.

This is a foundational building block of following Christ and spiritual maturity . It is not optional, nor is it possible without the Holy Spirit.
That's absolutely true, but that's not what you're saying at all. You are preaching a confused "gospel" that places the onus for living a Christlike life is on us, and clearly it is not.

Those who call themselves brothers in Christ yet continue in practicing sin are on the path to destruction and should not be associated with.
And I'm sure you see one under every rock. I wonder, do you ever see one in the mirror?
 
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mikeuk

Guest
#33
Might seem heartbreaking for now, but stay of good cheer. As you have said many still hold faith and love in Jesus. May your heart be mended.
I suspect it got lost in the posts a little, but I am hoping there is a little more that can be done other than just mend hearts as yet.

it is not over till the lady sings! I would have thought the overwhelming "silent majority" of the congregation, find this abhorrent even if the elders are resigned to it, and that pickles can still seek to unite the other branches to oust the head pastor!, using witholding of tithes or donation as leverage to embarrass the church and make the elders take notice. If they can make such a doctrinal change, they can also undo it as well!
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#34
I suspect it got lost in the posts a little, but I am hoping there is a little more that can be done other than just mend hearts as yet.

it is not over till the lady sings! I would have thought the overwhelming "silent majority" of the congregation, find this abhorrent even if the elders are resigned to it, and that pickles can still seek to unite the other branches to oust the head pastor!, using witholding of tithes or donation as leverage to embarrass the church and make the elders take notice. If they can make such a doctrinal change, they can also undo it as well!
I perceived she was saying this stone church has ended.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#36
Careful Brother, the Pharisees around here will somehow, someway deem this as sin. :cool:
The "came home to my wife" part, the "relaxed" part, or the "went to bed" part?


rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
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phil112

Guest
#38
Or it could be I have a life and don't play on this site 24 hours a day. As I respond here, the tag on your post says it put up roughly 13 hours ago. You might want to check when my last post was yesterday.

When you posted this, I was teaching an addictions treatment theory class at a local university, then came home to my wife, relaxed, and went to bed.

Perhaps you should examine satire a bit more than spelling and punctuation. Then you might discover the source(s) and the joke(s) behind my name.
I'm not real big on satire. I had seen that for some time and just thought I'd ask. You surely expect some, like me, to be curious. If you don't like queries about it perhaps you should just post the explanation in your sig line, eh?
 

extio

Junior Member
Oct 17, 2014
3
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#39
i think the bible teaches both aspects of this argument. it both teaches that we should be perfect like God, and that we are imperfect and incapable.

but the more obvious part to me is it clearly says we should be perfected and mature.

i think that even if we cant achieve it, we should strive for it. maybe that's what God would have of us, to aim for perfection and throw out the sin, as if we disagree with our own desires,

but also to know that we are not perfect... and if we mess up its just another chance to start over.
doesn't that cover both bases?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#40
Who is the church... you people, or the bigots in headquarters land?