Killing in the name of God?

[lightbearer]

Would you follow Yahshua/Jesus in this way? Being a member of His army:

Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”

The blood will be around 5 feet high and 180+ miles wide:


Revelation 14:12-20, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them. And I looked and saw a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was One like the Son of Aḏam, (Dan 7:13-14) having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. And another messenger came out of the Dwelling Place, crying with a loud voice to the One sitting on the cloud, “Send Your sickle and reap, because the hour has come for You to reap, because the harvest of the earth is ripe. And the One sitting on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another messenger came out of the Dwelling Place which is in the heaven, and he too held a sharp sickle. And another messenger came out from the altar, having authority over the fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him having the sharp sickle, saying, “Send your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe. And the messenger thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great wine press of the wrath of יהוה. And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out of the wine press, up to the bridles of the horses, for about one thousand six hundred stadiad. (Approx. 296 kilometres or 184 miles)”



Is this OK? Or is this not loving?

Do you understand why these are killed?

Do you understand why those people will killed in Exodus?


Revelation 11:18, “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

I do not know your motivations but it seems there has been a push the past few months to make Moses a bad guy, IMO most likley to say the Law is bad, but I do not know your heart in this matter.


Revelation 11:18, “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

If you would get a command to kill people and to make streets full of blood, would you not have any problem with that? I have a problem with killing even insects. So why does God transform and teaches us to be peaceul, while, on the other hand, He will or can command us to massacre people, like you say?

This is the contradiction I would like to be addressed in this thread.

The issue is in that we think it is not loving. Yet we think it is loving that the LORD allow us to continue in sin and cause way more hurt and death than when HE will, when HE eradicates it and those whom refuse the Faith and still live in it that causes death.

 

[trofimus]

Its not just "two different covenants".

The New covenant is better, higher, the goal.

We are developing into light, love, peace, our fighting is spiritual, not material. We will never return to Israel´s physical violence, IMHO. Not even when Christ returns. Because the current covenant is eternal.

 

[wanderer6059]

different time, we are in a time of grace, peace, and mercy. It will last till the second coming, at that point we will no longer be called to be missionaries and martyrs, but just and worriers.

and the people left in revelation that fight against God are nothing short of evil itself.

 

[hunterpoet]

"Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. 26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded..."
Ex 32

Would you obey such a command? We are, by the Holy Spirit and teaching of Jesus, being transformed to beings walking in light, love and peace, loving our enemies and better die than to harm others. Such a command seems to contradict it very much.

Any thoughts?

Mt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[NayborBear]

intellectual dishonesty tro...

I wouldn't go as far as making claims of intellectual dishonesty, concerning Trofimus' understanding. I wouldn't even go as far as to place Trofimus, or, ones like him, in the "camp" of those who have healed, cast out demons, etc. in the Lord's name. Whom the Lord doesn't know. But, I shall answer Trofimus' query, with the same reply, that Jesus answered His disciples with, when they (falsely) accused some people who were healing, casting out demons, etc. in Jesus' name, whom the Disciples didn't know. Yet Messiah knew! (paraphrasing) "Leave 'em alone!" "Although, they are not with US!" "They are not against us, either!" Although, there isn't any other mention beyond this, concerning who they were? I would like to offer a little insight for some, and hope, for others, and a "cause for a relief" to yet, even others, as to who I think, they were, and for Whom, they were doing these "acts." Psalms 110:1b. "......UNTIL I make Thine enemies Thy footstool."

Now read the rest of Psalms 110!

 

[Shamah]

The issue is in that we think it is not loving. Yet we think it is loving that the LORD allow us to continue in sin and cause way more hurt and death than when HE will, when HE eradicates it and those whom refuse the Faith and still live in it that causes death.

I agree here well said.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 11:18, “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

 

[Shamah]

I wouldn't go as far as making claims of intellectual dishonesty, concerning Trofimus' understanding. I wouldn't even go as far as to place Trofimus, or, ones like him, in the "camp" of those who have healed, cast out demons, etc. in the Lord's name. Whom the Lord doesn't know. But, I shall answer Trofimus' query, with the same reply, that Jesus answered His disciples with, when they (falsely) accused some people who were healing, casting out demons, etc. in Jesus' name, whom the Disciples didn't know. Yet Messiah knew! (paraphrasing) "Leave 'em alone!" "Although, they are not with US!" "They are not against us, either!" Although, there isn't any other mention beyond this, concerning who they were? I would like to offer a little insight for some, and hope, for others, and a "cause for a relief" to yet, even others, as to who I think, they were, and for Whom, they were doing these "acts." Psalms 110:1b. "......UNTIL I make Thine enemies Thy footstool."

Now read the rest of Psalms 110!

never did I say tRO was not a follower of Messiah, only the Shepherd knows who are His, the reason I said this is because I have had conversations about the 2 topics I was having with him before and there are facts that are biblically stated that he would not address, so I honestly did think he was being purposefully evasive in this matter, I now saying it seems rude but he will ask me a list of questions and will ignore my single question as he did in post 6 and 7 and as he will not comment on the Messiah's return as conquering Lion. If truth is what matters we would assess it.

 

[Shamah]

Psalms 110:1b. "......UNTIL I make Thine enemies Thy footstool."

Now read the rest of Psalms 110!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 110:1, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"2, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!"3, "Your people are willing in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth!"4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.”"5, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath."6, "He judges among the nations, He shall fill the nations with dead bodies, He shall crush the Head over the mighty earth!"7, "He drinks of the stream by the wayside, Therefore He does lift up the head!"

This is a perfect example of what we say here, the Messiah is returning as the conquering Lion, yet most people refuse to see this side of Him and only see the suffering Lamb. In my view this is what causes many to self justify a wilk that is agaist Him, they take a soothsaying approach never feeling like atonement will be made, yet He says it will be. Just my view, and btw glory to Yah and be well NB.
[/FONT]


a wonderful Psalm

 

[Nehemiah6]

Any thoughts?

Why this sudden spate of attacks against the Old Testament? Look like Satan is again on a rampage to shake the faith of some in the entire Bible.

You should know by now that the death penalty was the penalty for idolatry in Israel. And that is why the death penalty was applied to the idolaters.

This is NOT "killing" or murder, as you slyly suggest, but execution. And even the New Testament approves of execution for capital crimes.

7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (Exod 32:7,8)

 

[Shamah]

Why this sudden spate of attacks against the Old Testament? Look like Satan is again on a rampage to shake the faith of some in the entire Bible.

You should know by now that the death penalty was the penalty for idolatry in Israel. And that is why the death penalty was applied to the idolaters.

This is NOT "killing" or murder, as you slyly suggest, but execution. And even the New Testament approves of execution for capital crimes.

7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (Exod 32:7,8)

I think it is because perople hate the Righteous Standard, if they can make the "OT" "evil" they can disacrd it...

 

[Shamah]

these kind of tipocs make me think that many would in some form support this:

Could these be a sign that the “drought of the Word of YHWH” is indeed on the way? How tightly should we grip our Bibles? I know there have been book burnings, and this druought may still be far off, but should this raise a concern among believers?

Amos 8:11-14, “See, days are coming,” declares the Master יהוה, “that I shall send a hunger in the land, not a hunger for bread, nor a thirst for water, but for hearing the Words of יהוה. And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east – they shall diligently search, seeking the Word of יהוה, but they shall not find it. In that day the beautiful maidens and strong young men shall faint from thirst, those swearing by the guilt of Samaria, who say, ‘As your mighty one lives, O Dan!’ and, ‘As the way of Be’ĕrsheḇa lives!’ And they shall fall and never rise again.”


California Gender Bill May Ban the Sale of Bibles
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/california-book-ban/
By Rusty | Featured Contributor | April 20, 2018 3:36PM


Democrats in the alt-left state of California have passed a bill in the Assembly that would ban the sale of books that express Christian beliefs about sexual morality, quite possibly extending to printed texts such as the Bible.


No surprise there, after all this is the same party that once tried to abolish God from their official political platform … three times.


Assembly Bill 2943, which passed by a vote of 50-18, seeks to eliminate the “sale or lease of goods or services to any consumer” that promote “sexual orientation change efforts with an individual.”


Those efforts are subsequently defined as “efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same sex.”


The Bible instills sex as an act meant for marriage between a man and a woman. In other words, its teachings seek to ‘reduce sexual attractions towards individuals of the same sex.’


JUST IN: LIBERAL CALIFORNIA Lawmakers Propose Bill To Ban Sale Of Bibles https://t.co/vm07ZiuwLp @100PercFEDUP #AAG


— All American Girl (@AIIAmericanGirI) April 20, 2018


Even the Los Angeles Times has raised the possibility that such a bill could lead to a ban on Bibles.


“One key part of the debate centers on whether Assembly Bill 2943 would stretch beyond businesses that charge for these programs and extend to printed documents,” they wrote, “even Bibles.”


Randy Thomasson, president of SaveCalifornia.com, seems to think it’s possible.


“A church bookstore selling the Bible, of course, selling a book about marriage or sexual purity or overcoming homosexuality or overcoming trans-sexuality,” he explained. “You could see a member of the public or even a member of the state government coming and saying, ‘Hey, that’s illegal.'”


Un. Freakin. Real. All of our grandparents would think this is insane. Most of our parents would think this is insane. Now California legislators are trying to make an outrageous attack on the First Amendment the law. https://t.co/2I5FajVHFm


— Conservative Tribune (@conserv_tribune) April 20, 2018


Assemblywoman Susan Eggman, a Democrat who voted in favor of the measure, focused her attention on the gay conversion therapy aspect, already banned by mental health professionals on those under age 18 in California.


She scoffed at Christians concerned about this blatant affront to free speech saying, “But you can still try to pray the gay away, if you like.”


Just not with the guidance of a Bible apparently.


Developing: California Pushes Bill That Appears To Ban Sale of Bibles


By Randy DeSoto
April 19, 2018 at 6:06pm


https://www.westernjournal.com/developing-california-pushes-bill-that-appears-to-ban-sale-of-bibles/


A new California pro-LGBTQ bill that would ban the sale or distribution of materials related to “conversion therapy” easily passed the state’s assembly on Thursday.


CBS News affiliate KOVR reported the final tally was 50-14. Assembly Bill 2943 now heads to the Democrat-controlled Senate.


The bill would make it an unlawful business practice to engage in any “transaction intended to result or that results in the sale or lease of goods or services to any consumer” aimed at “sexual orientation change efforts with an individual.”


Goods would include any books or written materials, while services would encompass counseling individuals seeking to address same-sex attractions.


According to the Los Angeles Times, “One key part of the debate centers on whether Assembly Bill 2943 would stretch beyond businesses that charge for (conversion) programs and extend to printed documents, even Bibles.”


The Bible clearly teaches that homosexual conduct is a sin and instructs Christians to abstain from it.


The Apostle Paul records that people he ministered to “were” homosexuals among other types of sinners, but they were transformed by the Spirit of God — through the renewing of their minds — into their new identities as born again children of God.


The Times reported that an analysis by the Assembly Judiciary Committee says the bill would apply only to services that purport to change a person’s sexual orientation and are offered “on a commercial basis, as well as the advertising and offering of such services.”
Do you think AB 2943 will lead to Bibles being banned?


However, Randy Thomasson with SaveCalifornia.com told CBN News that the bill’s actual language is very broad and can easily be brought to bear on Christian ministries.


“So, this is a pastor speaking, you pay a ticket to hear him speak. He speaks about overcoming same-sex desires. Hey, that could be outlawed. A church sells a book about overcoming same-sex desires. There’s a sale, there’s a transaction, that could be banned,” Thomasson said.


“This is very expansive, very tyrannical and absolutely squashing free speech, religious freedom and basic choice of people. This is an anti-freedom, anti-American bill,” he added.


A basic freedom taken is the ability to seek the treatment of one’s own choice.


RELATED: Ted Cruz Challenger’s Radical Leftist Agenda Should Alarm Voters


“AB 2943 would start by saying, ok, nobody can get counseling to overcome same-sex desires… ok, so no help for adult children, adults who were molested as kids and now they are adults and they say I want help to overcome these feelings. No help for you,” Thomasson explained.


Asked specifically about whether Bibles could be banned, Thomasson said it is entirely foreseeable that people might try to enforce the law in that manner.


“Well, you could see this law going into effect. A church bookstore selling the Bible, of course, selling a book about marriage or sexual purity or overcoming homosexuality or overcoming trans-sexuality. You could see a member of the public or even a member of the state government coming and saying, ‘Hey, that’s illegal,'” he stated.


The religious liberty group Alliance Defending Freedom released a legal memo in opposition to AB 2943 last month explaining why it likely does not pass constitutional muster regarding freedom of speech or the free exercise of religion.


“At its core, AB 2943 outlaws speech, whether offered by a licensed counselor, a best-selling author, or even a minister or religious leader,” the memo states.


“It targets a specific message—that an adult who is experiencing unwanted same-sex attraction or gender identity confusion can find help to address those issues—for censorship. The breadth of this censorship is staggering.”






Gay 'conversion therapy' services would be banned under measure advancing in California
By John Myers
http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-gay-conversion-therapy-services-would-1524162085-htmlstory.html#nt=card






The California Assembly voted Thursday to add gay “conversion therapy” to the state’s list of deceptive business practices, following a debate that focused on the personal experiences of several lawmakers and hinted at potential lawsuits to come.


“It is harmful and it is unnecessary,” Assemblyman Evan Low (D-Campbell), the bill’s author and one of the Legislature’s most vocal LGBTQ members, said of the practice.


Low, who told Assembly members that he explored conversion therapy as a teenager and suffered depression over his sexual orientation, insisted that the bill would be limited to efforts that involve the exchange of money.


“There’s nothing wrong with me,” he said in an emotional speech on the Assembly floor. “There’s nothing that needs to be changed.”


The bill, which now heads to the Senate, has become the focal point of intense debate on social media. Some religious groups have said that such a law would be a violation of their constitutional rights, while advocates insist the provisions are narrow and there’s no credible evidence that the services work.


One key part of the debate centers on whether Assembly Bill 2943 would stretch beyond businesses that charge for these programs and extend to printed documents, even Bibles. An analysis by the Assembly Judiciary Committee says the bill would apply only to services that purport to change a person’s sexual orientation and offered “on a commercial basis, as well as the advertising and offering of such services.”


Lawmakers who spoke in support of AB 2943 also made clear that they believe those kinds of services have been discredited. “This is fraudulent, it should not be occurring,” said Assemblywoman Susan Eggman (D-Stockton). “But you can still try to pray the gay away, if you like.”



Assemblyman James Gallagher (R-Yuba City), who said the bill addresses a difficult issue, nonetheless said that it’s important to ensure laws don’t tamper with religious freedom.


“We have to think about the legitimate experience of people who have gone through conversion therapy and said this was a good thing for them,” Gallagher told his colleagues.


California law already bans the use of conversion therapy by mental health professionals on those under age 18. Low’s bill would expand the state’s efforts beyond minors. It would join a list of commercial activities deemed “unfair or deceptive acts or practices” and therefore banned under state law.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Marcionism and Marcionites… What is Marcionism?[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Marcion believed Jesus was the savior sent by God, and Paul the Apostle was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mar·cion·ism: the doctrinal system of a sect of the second and third centuries a.d. accepting some parts of the New Testament (Paul) but denying Christ's corporality and humanity and condemning the Creator God of the Old Testament.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heretical sect founded in A.D. 144 at Rome by Marcion and continuing in the West for 300 years, but in the East some centuries longer, especially outside the Byzantine Empire. They rejected the writings of the Old Testament and taught that Christ was not the Son of the God of the Jews, but the Son of the good God, who was different from the God of the Ancient Covenant. They anticipated the more consistent dualism of Manichaeism and were finally absorbed by it.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]

 

[Ariel82]

Some days I think folks here at BDF make it an Olympic sport to erect and burn strawmen.

God is the same in the Old and New Testament.

Two covenants...,it's the difference between being part of the family,being an adopted child of God...versus being a slave or servant working for a wage

Some people prefer to be paid as a servant because they don't like their cross or reject chastenmenr and are illegitimate children like Ishmael and Esau.

 

[breno785au]

We really ought to teach in humility. Why can't we see that in this day and cultural climate this can be an exceedingly difficult thing to understand. Being commanded to kill.
If you have understanding, answer it without making it personal. I know I personally don't understand the event, and I was abit taken when I first read it.

 

[jameen]

"Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. 26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded..."
Ex 32

Would you obey such a command? We are, by the Holy Spirit and teaching of Jesus, being transformed to beings walking in light, love and peace, loving our enemies and better die than to harm others. Such a command seems to contradict it very much.

Any thoughts?

The Father said to the 3 apostles during Transfiguration that they must listen to his Son and not to the 2 greatest prophets: Elijah and Moses.

Jesus said BE HARMLESS AS DOVES (Matthew 10:16)

We must pray, do good and love our enemies (Matthew 5:44)

So killing your personal enemy is not the commandment of Jesus.

Anyone who is a murderer will be sent to the lake of fire according to Revelation.

 

[mcubed]

"Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. 26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded..."
Ex 32

Would you obey such a command? We are, by the Holy Spirit and teaching of Jesus, being transformed to beings walking in light, love and peace, loving our enemies and better die than to harm others. Such a command seems to contradict it very much.

Any thoughts?

The only verse you find where Y-shua said put away your sword, is when He said it to His disciple because He had to go to the cross. Y-shua validated what Moses said when He said you believe in Moses, belive also in me. Y-shua said I did not come to bring peace to the Earth, Matthew 10:34. His words not mine. During the time of Exodus G-d was showing He was the ONE TRUE LIVING G-D.... these people just came out of Egypt. And I promise you when the Lord returns Christians will take up arms, we just have not lived in these/those kind of days....

 

[Miri]

Its not just "two different covenants".

The New covenant is better, higher, the goal.

We are developing into light, love, peace, our fighting is spiritual, not material. We will never return to Israel´s physical violence, IMHO. Not even when Christ returns. Because the current covenant is eternal.

A covenant is a promise, a guarantee, a contract.

The old covenant was a foundation as I already said - the question has
also been answered by others as well. Nobody said they would go around
massacring people, we are trying to help you understand why and how it happened
as you don’t seem to know just yet. As I said earlier that’s ok, we all have things
to understand.

Yes you are absolutely right that thankfully, we now have the blood of the lamb, Jesus.
The door to salvation etc.

Back then they didn't, but that does not mean the Old Testament can be disregarded.
Its vitally important for understanding how sin came into the world, how serious sin
is to God. How God had a plan to reconcile people to himself through the shedding of
blood, the Priest hood etc.

The Old Testament is vital for making people understand God’s standards that no one
can save themselves.

God wanted a Holy people, a people who walked in fellowship with Him but sin
got in the way. It took time and the right season for Christ to come into the
world.

In the meantime, God had to take action to ensure sin and the world did not
overrun the world and make it impossible for His plans to come to fruitition.

Thats because there is also Satan, who was continuing to work against mankind.
We still have to contend with the world, the devil and ourselves (flesh).

Several times the bible mentions the saving of a remnant - to ensure the world
was not utterly depraved, to ensure a Saviour came into the world.

Adam and Eve were the first remnants God did not destroy them.
Noah and his family were remnants.
Those who entered the promised land were too (many were killed off as they were
unfit for God’s purpose but they had many warnings and chances so it wasn’t God being
unjust, it was God being serious).

There were those preserved during the excile too.

All the way through the Old Testament, God fought for His people, to ensure that
just at the right time Jesus would come into the world and to ensure evil did not
prevail. If It hadn’t been for that, where would we be.

What if all the rightouse people had been killed off, what if the world was so overrun
with utter deprivity that there as no one who knew about God, no one who wanted to
continue to worship God. What if Satan had triumphed in turning everyone away from
God.

Of course that never happened as a God preserved His people.
Thats what it was all about, why Saul was told to slay everyone and everything.
It was also justice, it wasnt indiscriminate, it was judgement after numerous warnings.
What about the killing of all first born Egyptians, the 10th plague. That’s the same idea.
How about all the other battles.

Thank God we don’t live in those times, and we have Jesus the way truth and the life.
But don’t discard the Old Testmament, it’s the foundation, it’s necessary. You
wouldn’t have the New Testament without the Old. It’s just as important.

Incidentally if you lived in those times. Then you would also have had difficult
decisions to make. But it was different back then, we cannot compare then with
now and that’s why your questions are pointless as to “would you have done it.”
We can however look at why it happened and see the bigger picture.



1 Samuel 15:1-3 NKJV
[1] Samuel also said to Saul, "The LORD sent me to anoint you king over His people,
over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the LORD. [2] Thus says
the LORD of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed
him on the way when he came up from Egypt. [3] Now go and attack Amalek, and
utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and
woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"

 

[lightbearer]

Revelation 11:18, “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

The ramifications of our sin is much deeper than most realize.

For the whole creation hopes for and expects the revelation of the sons of God. For the creation has been subjected to futility, not by its choice, but because of him who subjected it upon hope. For the creation shall also be freed from the bondage of destruction into the liberty of the glory of the sons of God. For we know that all created things groan and are in labor until today.
(Rom 8:19-22 FCAB)

 

[Zmouth]

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded..."
Ex 32

I think there is a little more to the story than Jesus saying buy a sword and start killing.

And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. Luke 22:38

26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.Ex 32


Kinda ironic that someone would leave the LORD's side, especially seeing that he made Moses a God unto Pharaoh, seems the opportunity for advancement would be better with the LORD but be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap.

So would you stay or would you go?


27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.Ex 32


Since a man is saved by faith, if he was blind he would have no sin but if he sees then his sin remains and he has no cloak for sin if you hear what is written. Kinda reminds me of the Holy Ghost giving the Holy Spirit to them that ask him, if the Holy Ghost was your Father in heaven then why would you ask him for another God?


28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. Ex. 32

Of course there is no difference between the sons of Levi and the children of Levi, right? But listen to what the son of David wrote Eccl 3:17-19
17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts;



29 For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves to day to the LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he may bestow upon you a blessing this day. Ex 32


And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:34

 

[wolfwint]

"Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. 26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.

27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded..."
Ex 32

Would you obey such a command? We are, by the Holy Spirit and teaching of Jesus, being transformed to beings walking in light, love and peace, loving our enemies and better die than to harm others. Such a command seems to contradict it very much.

Any thoughts?

If God commands. But we have to note that we are not in this OT situation and Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Not I know from a NT command to kill somebody!