King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, I would think there are records of revisions on the text. I'm just saying that they match so well that it seems they may have been written after the New Testament. I will google tonight, I thought maybe you might know for sure.... save me some work. :)
Not always. It matches just often. But if somebody planned it, he would correct all places. Some are not matching.

But still, you are avoiding the fact that your NT says something is written in the OT and your OT does not have it :) Incorruptible OT.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Not always. It matches just often. But if somebody planned it, he would correct all places. Some are not matching.

But still, you are avoiding the fact that your NT says something is written in the OT and your OT does not have it :) Incorruptible OT.
out for 4 hours
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Do you think English speakers have been reading corrupted texts for all these years?
Sadly, the answer is painful, but yes.

But not just English speakers, lets say protestants. That unlucky choice to use Jewish resources for the OT was the reformation choice and it lasts in all protestant Bibles in various languages till today.

Some better newer translations use at least partly the Septuagint as their source or make the LXX readings available in footnotes.

But the tradition of the use of Hebrew (just because we must translate from the original languages no matter what) is so strong that the main OT text of almost all protestant Bibles is inconsistent with the quotations in the NT...
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
overseer/elder

1Tim 3
New International Version
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.

New Living Translation
This is a trustworthy saying: "If someone aspires to be an elder, he desires an honorable position."

English Standard Version
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Berean Study Bible
This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task.

Berean Literal Bible
Trustworthy is the saying: If anyone aspires to overseership, he is desirous of a good work.

New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

here's another though it says eldership

Syriac peshito
1 It is a faithful saying, that if a man desireth the eldership, he desireth a good work.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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We are live our lives by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, not assumptions of what so and so PROBABLY said. It's only common sense!
So God said that all English speakers must read the King James? Really?
 

RedeemedGift

Senior Member
May 28, 2017
158
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So God said that all English speakers must read the King James? Really?
Yes, I mean, where do the authorised versions BEFORE the King James Version come into things like the Great Bible and the Bishop's Bible? The latter of which worked as the base for the King James Version.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
If I'm using a KJV version, it's the pure Cambridge edition, there's another called the concord reference edition.
 
L

limey410

Guest
Give the verse that says a person is born again the moment they are saved.... I can't find it.
What is the difference between saved and born again ?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,006
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Angela can answer for herself. Regarding your second sentence, your logic is lacking something, but it appears that you are asserting that the KJV aligns with the majority of the manuscripts. I won't argue that point, but I will assert that the majority is not by itself a barometer of truth, because of the widespread destruction of documents by Moslems, and the much lower likelihood of manuscripts being copied in Moslem-controlled areas.
Okay and so much for the cloud of witnesses...

Thank you.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,006
931
113
overseer/elder

1Tim 3
New International Version
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.

New Living Translation
This is a trustworthy saying: "If someone aspires to be an elder, he desires an honorable position."

English Standard Version
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Berean Study Bible
This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task.

Berean Literal Bible
Trustworthy is the saying: If anyone aspires to overseership, he is desirous of a good work.

New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.

Following the NET bible translation of 1 Tim. 3:1-2, the translators which include Dallas Professor and world re-known Critical Bible Scholar Daniel B. Wallace had it in their footnote “or Bishop”. So accordingly, Bishop is not all in error per Wallace and co.!
3:1 This saying[SUP]1[/SUP] is trustworthy: “If someone aspires to the office of overseer,[SUP]2[/SUP] he desires a good work.” 3:2 The overseer[SUP]3[/SUP] then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[SUP]4[/SUP] temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money.
[SUP]2[/SUP]tn Grk “aspires to oversight.”
[SUP]3[/SUP]tn Or “bishop.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No, it says ALL scripture IS (present tense) given by inspiration... If it's scripture then it's inspired, anything else is just man GUESSING what God really meant.
The very word contradicts your belief...GOD INSPIRED HOLY MEN not false, satanic Episcopalian priests who teach heresy.....the context is clear and the word APPLIES unto the word as ORIGINALLY INSPIRED IN GREEK AND HEBREW.....YOUR argument based upon "is" has more holes than a spaghetti strainer and to be honest speaks volumes to your worship of the version over the truth!
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,006
931
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Finding the world of Chess, here may we can glean some truths of the word bishop.

History

A pre-Stauntonbishop
The bishop's predecessor in medieval chess, shatranj (originally chaturanga), was the alfil, meaning the elephant, which could leap two squares along any diagonal, and could jump over an intervening piece. As a consequence, each fil was restricted to eight squares, and no fil could attack another. The modern bishop first appeared shortly after 1200 in Courier chess.[SUP][1][/SUP] A piece with this move, called a cocatriz or crocodile, is part of the Grande Acedrex in the game book compiled in 1283 for King Alfonso X of Castile. The game is attributed to "India", then a very vague term.[SUP][2][/SUP] About half a century later Muḥammad ibn Maḥmud al-Āmulī, in his Treasury of the Sciences, describes an expanded form of chess with two pieces moving "like the rook but obliquely".[SUP][3][/SUP]
Derivatives of alfil survive in the languages of the two countries where chess was first introduced within Western Europe—Italian (alfiere) and Spanish (alfil).[SUP][4][/SUP] It was known as the aufin in French,[SUP][5][/SUP] or the aufin, alphin, or archer in early English.[SUP][6][/SUP]
The term "bishop" first entered the English language in the 16th century, with the first known written example dating back to 1560s.[SUP][6][/SUP] In all other Germanic languages, except for Icelandic, it is called various names, all of which directly translate to English as "runner" or "messenger" (e.g. in Norwegian "Løper", in Danish "Løber", in Swedish "Löpare", in German "Läufer" and in Dutch "loper"; in Finnish, the word is "lähetti", and in Polish, "goniec", both with the same meaning). In Romanian, it is known as "nebun" which refers to a crazy person (similarly to the French name "Fou" (fool) which is most likely derived from "Fou du roi", a jester).[SUP][7][/SUP] In Icelandic, however, it is called "biskup",[SUP][8][/SUP] with the same meaning as in English. Interestingly, the use of the term in Icelandic predates that of the English language, as the first mentioning of "biskup" in Icelandic texts dates back to the early part of the 14th century, while the 12th-century Lewis Chessmen portray the bishop as an unambiguously ecclesiastical figure. In The Saga of Earl Mágus, which was written in Iceland somewhere between 1300–1325, it is described how an emperor was checkmated by a bishop. This has led to some speculations as to the origin of the English use of the term "bishop".[SUP][9][10][/SUP]
The canonical chessmen date back to the Staunton chess set of 1849. The piece's deep groove symbolizes a bishop's (or abbot's) mitre. Some have written that the groove originated from the original form of the piece, an elephant[SUP][11][12][/SUP] with the groove representing the elephant's tusks (see photo in the history section).[SUP][13][/SUP] The British chose to call the piece a bishop because the projections at the top resembled a mitre.[SUP][14][/SUP] This groove was interpreted differently in different countries as the game moved to Europe; in France, for example, the groove was taken to be a jester's cap, hence in France the bishop is called "fou" (the jester; the word can also mean madman or gannet).[SUP][15][/SUP]
In some Slavic languages (e.g. Czech/Slovak) the bishop is called "střelec/strelec", which directly translates to English as a "shooter" meaning an archer, while in others it is still known as "elephant" (e.g. Russian slon). In South Slavic languages it is usually known as "lovac", meaning "hunter", or "laufer", taken from the German name for the same piece (laufer is also alternative Polish name). An alternative name for bishop in Russian is officer (Russian: офицер).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_(chess)

So Bishop could simply mean a runner,a messenger or a servant.

God bless
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Not always. It matches just often. But if somebody planned it, he would correct all places. Some are not matching.

But still, you are avoiding the fact that your NT says something is written in the OT and your OT does not have it :) Incorruptible OT.
I'm not avoiding lol, you are assuming the New Testament writers are quoting the Old Testament and they are not. They are bringing NEW or MORE insight to the Old Testament passages. Let's use your example from earlier.

"Incorruptible" KJV with the Jewish sources for the OT :

1 Pt 1:16: "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."

Lv 20:7: "Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God."


====

LXX (the right source for the OT) and the proper translation:

Lv 20:7 "And you shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy. "
Peter isn't quoting leviticus 20:7, he's bringing our attention to the whole chapter of Leviticus 11. Why? To show the NEW TESTAMENT meaning of being holy. Read 1 Peter 15-16 and Leviticus 45-46.

1 Peter 1:15-16 KJV
[15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16] Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Leviticus 11:45-46 KJV
[45] For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
[46] For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

All of the verses in Leviticus 11 leading up to verses 45 and 46 are LAWS of do this and don't do that.... Why are they not to do those things? Because THEY ARE HOLY. Why are they holy, because God is holy [Leviticus 45 and 46].

All of that holiness through do this and don't do that is out the window in the New Testament... we are holy WITHOUT the works of the law and that's exactly what Peter is saying - be ye holy in all manner of CONVERSATION.... As it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Peter isn't quoting any Old Testament saying, he is asking us to go check out Leviticus 11.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Sadly, the answer is painful, but yes.

But not just English speakers, lets say protestants. That unlucky choice to use Jewish resources for the OT was the reformation choice and it lasts in all protestant Bibles in various languages till today.

Some better newer translations use at least partly the Septuagint as their source or make the LXX readings available in footnotes.

But the tradition of the use of Hebrew (just because we must translate from the original languages no matter what) is so strong that the main OT text of almost all protestant Bibles is inconsistent with the quotations in the NT...
Maybe we should all convert to Catholicism lol.... they must have it right. I couldn't disagree more with your statement though, I've found many errors in the LXX debating with you in the past.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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So God said that all English speakers must read the King James? Really?
I don't think he mentioned the KJV by name but he did say his word would never corrupt, in fact he said:

1 Peter 1:24-25 KJV
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[25] But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Flesh is the same as grass.. the original writings were written on vellum (flesh) and papyrus (grass), they both wither and the glory of them fades away, but the word of the Lord endureth forever. And that word of the Lord is the word the disciples preached and wrote down for us.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yes, I mean, where do the authorised versions BEFORE the King James Version come into things like the Great Bible and the Bishop's Bible? The latter of which worked as the base for the King James Version.
That's a good question and I would like to know which bible was the inerrant word before the KJV down through the years.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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If I'm using a KJV version, it's the pure Cambridge edition, there's another called the concord reference edition.
What's the difference between the Cambidge and Concord?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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What is the difference between saved and born again ?
The best description of what being born again means is here:

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

It takes incorruptible words to become born again. Is "for God so loved the world..." enough words? I don't think so because the spiritual birth in us is the Spirit of Christ.

Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

I think it takes a lot of time in the word before the spirit of Christ is formed in us, at least it did in me.