King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

[Dino246]

There are several places but probably the best is here.

Romans 1:20 KJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I think you missed the part where I asked you to explain without referring to the KJV.

What I see is that you believe as you do because you believe the KJV is perfect. Because (you believe) the KJV is perfect, and it is different from the NIV, the NIV must be imperfect.

Let's try this again: you asserted that the NIV is in error. What led you to believe that the NIV is in error? Please do not refer to the KJV in your answer. In other words, using the KJV to prove the NIV is wrong does not hold water.

 

[trofimus]

There are several places but probably the best is here.

Romans 1:20 KJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

There is nothing saying He has no origin. It only says that He is eternal, which is about time, not about origin. Time begun by creation of the universe.

Church believes that Son is from Father (origin), but it was always so (there was no time when Jesus did not exist).

 

[trofimus]

Exactly that, we don't have the ability to HEAR His word, we are deaf. We get our from hearing by the word of God. .

Does not make much sense.

We do not have ability to hear His word, yet we got this ability by hearing His word?

Its like saying we do not have ability to drink a water, but when we will drink it, we will get this ability.

 

[Zi]

Babies don't have the ability to walk until they walk. One doesn't swim until they swim.. I understand him

Does not make much sense.

We do not have ability to hear His word, yet we got this ability by hearing His word?

Its like saying we do not have ability to drink a water, but when we will drink it, we will get this ability.

 

[trofimus]

If we try to convince someone about Jesus using logic - the wisdom of this world, then we are wasting our time because that's not where faith comes from. Faith comes from HEARING!

Logic is not "the wisdom of this world". Logic is an ability to connect truths to conclusion.

And yes, both I and you need at least some minimal IQ to even be able to read, understand words and connect various truths from the word of God.

Romans 10:17 KJV
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith comes by hearing but people can't hear with out another ingredient - the word of God. Try to understand what is being said there. You can present fact after fact after and the listener will NOT hear until they recieve hearing. They can only get hearing by the word of God. I seriously want you to ponder those words and figure out what they mean... don't go to another translation and CHANGE the words, ponder on the words from the KJV.

The problem is, that if you want to proof from the OT that Jesus is Christ, it must be clear.

You cannot post verses by chance and say "If God wills, you will see this verse to be the same as this verse".

Sorry, but the correct Psalm 40:6 says what Hebrews 10:5 says. Not in your KJV, but it is just your problem, not mine, not of Apollos´

 

[trofimus]

And it's poetry because? Even it was poetry which it is not, the NIV still preaches ANOTHER Jesus who has an origin.

I would be very careful with "another Jesus, another gospel, another God" and similar sayings.

That we are not able to agree on some aspect of God does not mean we have different God or different Jesus.

It would mean we are not saved equally, because one of us would have some kind of a false God.

And you know what? You can be wrong about His origin.
You surely do not want to explain on the judgement day why you said its a different Jesus, right...?

If we had the same physical father and letter from him we could not agree on how to interpret, it does not mean our fathers are different persons.

 

[trofimus]

Babies don't have the ability to walk until they walk. One doesn't swim until they swim.. I understand him

But it is about evolution... learning from step to step and it takes much time.

He means some kind of miracle - you hear it and bam!, there it is, from now on you can hear it. So there is actually no time when you cant.

 

[Zi]

BC you say be careful? God knows how to judge his words and understanding.. Nobody is judged off anothers

I would be very careful with "another Jesus, another gospel, another God" and similar sayings.

That we are not able to agree on some aspect of God does not mean we have different God or different Jesus.

It would mean we are not saved equally, because one of us would have some kind of a false God.

And you know what? You can be wrong about His origin.
You surely do not want to explain on the judgement day why you said its a different Jesus, right...?

If we had the same physical father and letter from him we could not agree on how to interpret, it does not mean our fathers are different persons.

 

[Zi]

Oh I didn't realize you knew this..

But it is about evolution... learning from step to step and it takes much time.

He means some kind of miracle - you hear it and bam!, there it is, from now on you can hear it. So there is actually no time when you cant.

 

[trofimus]

BC you say be careful? God knows how to judge his words and understanding.. Nobody is judged off anothers

yes, I would be very careful to operate with "another Jesus" when talking to Christians. Because it can be me who is in error and my own words would judge me then.

 

[Zi]

Again God knows what you don't and is for justice, not appeasing our foe by giving us what they thought was due us

yes, I would be very careful to operate with "another Jesus" when talking to Christians. Because it can be me who is in error and my own words would judge me then.

 

[trofimus]

Again God knows what you don't and is for justice, not appeasing our foe by giving us what they thought was due us

I am loosing you. No idea why are you against taking care of our words.

But nevermind, its not the topic.

 

[Zi]

I'm not. But being out in left field when someone is in right, is different..

I am loosing you. No idea why are you against taking care of our words.

But nevermind, its not the topic.

 

[KJV1611]

I think you missed the part where I asked you to explain without referring to the KJV.

What I see is that you believe as you do because you believe the KJV is perfect. Because (you believe) the KJV is perfect, and it is different from the NIV, the NIV must be imperfect.

Let's try this again: you asserted that the NIV is in error. What led you to believe that the NIV is in error? Please do not refer to the KJV in your answer. In other words, using the KJV to prove the NIV is wrong does not hold water.

Yes I forgot you asked for non KJV. Wow, it's much harder to find it in the NIV. It's like they are trying to conceal it from the reader. But they do mention that Jesus is God here.

Isaiah 9:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

I will look for more places where the NIV is wrong based on other things the NIV says.

 

[KJV1611]

No, all you have done is try to show that the wording of some verses is different.

That is VERY different from proving that the KJV is inspired and inerrant!!!

You cannot use the KJV as its own standard!

What exactly are you looking for?

 

[KJV1611]

Again Jesus Christ which liveth and abideth forever!... You can throw your KJV and any other translation in the fire and it will burn and perish... Who was in the firey furnace with the children of Israel?... Did not we throw in three?... Behold I see four and the forth is like The Son Of Man... Who was the Man?... The Eternal Son Of God... In the beginning was The Word and Word was with God and the Word was God... By him all things were made and for him all thing were created... Brother Glen

I gather from your response that the word of God in 1 Peter 1:23 is Jesus. My question would be how do you know it's Jesus? For the record I believe it's Jesus also because I believe the Spirit of Christ can inhabit a physical body and the words of the bible... the only difference between the Word of God and the word of God is the body that the spirit is manifest to the world in.

 

[KJV1611]

There is nothing saying He has no origin. It only says that He is eternal, which is about time, not about origin. Time begun by creation of the universe.

Church believes that Son is from Father (origin), but it was always so (there was no time when Jesus did not exist).

I agree that there was no time when Jesus didn't exist, he is eternal and DID NOT get his origin from God. Eternal beings don't have origins, they are eternal.

This "Son is from Father (origin)" is talking about the physical body of Christ not the origin of the divine being Jesus.

 

[KJV1611]

Does not make much sense.

We do not have ability to hear His word, yet we got this ability by hearing His word?

Its like saying we do not have ability to drink a water, but when we will drink it, we will get this ability.

Why do I hear a different "word" when I read the bible than you do? One is that you read many different bibles and Greek, in which there is no consistency in the texts you read. In the KJV God INSPIRED the writers to use certain words consistently throughout scripture so that we can get an understanding of what words like "My Word" REALLY means. And one of the key definers of "My Word" is the verse I asked you to ponder.

Use critical thinking, why couldn't the Pharisees understand "His Speech"? There are only a hand full of possibilites - 1) They didn't speak the language 2) They didn't know the scripture or 3) They didn't understand the symbolic meaning of the words Jesus spoke.

Which one was it?

 

[KJV1611]

Babies don't have the ability to walk until they walk. One doesn't swim until they swim.. I understand him

An ear has to be developed before we can hear HIS WORD. The more we read the better our hearing gets. I realize you are hearing in other ttranslations and like I said before I'm glad you do, but if we read in a book where God has made it SO MUCH EASIER to hear by using a consistent language structure from one end of the bible to the other then our hearing will be so much better.

 

[KJV1611]

Logic is not "the wisdom of this world". Logic is an ability to connect truths to conclusion.

And yes, both I and you need at least some minimal IQ to even be able to read, understand words and connect various truths from the word of God.




The problem is, that if you want to proof from the OT that Jesus is Christ, it must be clear.

You cannot post verses by chance and say "If God wills, you will see this verse to be the same as this verse".

Sorry, but the correct Psalm 40:6 says what Hebrews 10:5 says. Not in your KJV, but it is just your problem, not mine, not of Apollos´

Isaac Asimov read the bible from one end to the other and this was his logical conclusion:

[h=1]“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”[/h]