KJV only....?

[LOLOKGal]

I'm not one of those, "King James Only" people, but I am careful with the versions I do study. Since I've started studying the Hebrew and Greek and compare it to today's versions, I'm finding more and more that the KJV and NKJV are spot on.

Please keep this is mind... Every time a new version comes out, it has to be copyrighted. In order for something to be copyrighted, there had to be a huge difference between it and another published item.

So, here is what I am saying or asking, please, if you're going to read/study from a different version, always compare it with 2 or 3 other versions, including the kjv or nkjv. =)

Here's and example from Matt 18:15-17

Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matt 18:15-17 nkjv

If a fellow believer hurts you, go and tell him—work it out between the two of you. If he listens, you’ve made a friend. If he won’t listen, take one or two others along so that the presence of witnesses will keep things honest, and try again. If he still won’t listen, tell the church. If he won’t listen to the church, you’ll have to start over from scratch, confront him with the need for repentance, and offer again God’s forgiving love. Matt 18:15-17 msg

Whoa! Did you catch the major difference there!? O.O

 

[Magenta]

The Message is a terrible translation to compare any other to because it is written for a grade four level of reading comprehension, plus uses modern idiomatic slang rather than being a word for word translation.

 

[Ugly]

I'm not a fan of bashing translations, but the Message is one of the few I actively will speak against. Lots of paraphrasing rather than translation in it. So it's a mix of both.

 

[LOLOKGal]

The Message is a terrible translation to compare any other to because it is written for a grade four level of reading comprehension, plus uses modern idiomatic slang rather than being a word for word translation.

I get it. However, it should still hold the same meaning. It does not. =/

 

[Corbinscam]

The message isn't a good example by which to condemn all translations that aren't kjv.

 

[Magenta]

I get it. However, it should still hold the same meaning. It does not. =/

Yes, it is as if Eugene Peterson said, I don't like the way that paragraph/instruction ends, I will just put something else in there that I like better

 

[dcontroversal]

Galatians 1:6-7

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Study the words ANOTHER....BOTH translated ANOTHER.....and tell me if they are the same word with the same meaning.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not a fan of bashing translations, but the Message is one of the few I actively will speak against. Lots of paraphrasing rather than translation in it. So it's a mix of both.

Exactly....translation, transliteration and much copied from and or compared to the 1st English translation which came before it....

 

[Ugly]

I get it. However, it should still hold the same meaning. It does not. =/

"Should" by what standard? Many things on this planet "Should" be a certain way, but they aren't. And a pseudo-translation known to have countless inaccuracies, paraphrasing, and some claim new age themes, "should" have the same meaning as an actual translation?

 

[LOLOKGal]

The message isn't a good example by which to condemn all translations that aren't kjv.

My post wasn't about basing all translations. It's about including more then one into your studies. =)

 

[LOLOKGal]

"Should" by what standard? Many things on this planet "Should" be a certain way, but they aren't. And a pseudo-translation known to have countless inaccuracies, paraphrasing, and some claim new age themes, "should" have the same meaning as an actual translation?

By God's standards. I don't care about the world's. =)

 

[Dino246]

If you are concerned about the reliability of different translations, it is well worth it to learn something about the practice of translation. Since no two languages are structured the same way, there are differences in the way words and sentences are translated.

For example, in French, the adjectives may be placed before or after the object, while in English, they are usually before. Case in point: "le grand porte rouge". A strict word-for-word translation to English becomes, "the large door red". This is formal translation. However, that is incorrect English; a translation into correct English ("the large red door") requires a dynamic translation rather than a formal translation.

Translation from Hebrew and Greek to English is much more complex. Hebrew has far fewer words than modern English, and Greek has far more structure to it, including verb tenses that don't exist in English. Synonyms, doctrinal biases and familiarity with the languages further complicates the process.

While the KJV is basically an adequate translation, it has its weaknesses (archaic words, for one) and more than a few outright errors. It is improper to compare any modern version to the KJV as though the KJV were some sort of standard; it isn't. By comparing that way, you only come up with your preference, which has little to no objective value. While it's fine to recognize that the passage quoted says something different in the Message than it does in the KJV, without knowing the background of both of them, or knowing the Greek, you can't actually say with any authority that either one is a better translation.

Regarding the KJV specifically, there are several threads on this forum already. They usually become debates between people who are KJV-only adherents and those who aren't.

 

[trofimus]

Woo hoo!

Finally!

Prepare for the fight! Let us wait few hours so that our KJV Only guys can find this thread

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Lolokgal,


Are you studying Hebrew and Greek on your own, in college or what? Just curious. I'd like to be able to find a great course I can do online.


I really dislike the Message. It's not even a paraphrase of God's word from the Hebrew and Greek. It's an author and poets own rendering of what he wanted to say, to be playful with God's word.

 

[Zmouth]

While the KJV is basically an adequate translation, it has its weaknesses (archaic words, for one) and more than a few outright errors. It is improper to compare any modern version to the KJV as though the KJV were some sort of standard; it isn't. By comparing that way, you only come up with your preference, which has little to no objective value.

Would you care to cite a couple of those more than a few errors you are referring unto?

 

[Huckleberry]

I'm not one of those, "King James Only" people, but I am careful with the versions I do study. Since I've started studying the Hebrew and Greek and compare it to today's versions, I'm finding more and more that the KJV and NKJV are spot on.

I only read the AV because it's incontrovertibly the most
honest and accurate English translation of the Holy Scriptures.
If others like a different translation better, that's their business.
I don't hate on them or declare them to be involved in an evil cult.
Many of them don't reciprocate the respect.

 

[LOLOKGal]

Woo hoo!

Finally!

Prepare for the fight! Let us wait few hours so that our KJV Only guys can find this thread

My intensions was not to start a fight. My hopes are to give each person something to think about and seek God on. =)

 

[LOLOKGal]

Hi Lolokgal,


Are you studying Hebrew and Greek on your own, in college or what? Just curious. I'd like to be able to find a great course I can do online.


I really dislike the Message. It's not even a paraphrase of God's word from the Hebrew and Greek. It's an author and poets own rendering of what he wanted to say, to be playful with God's word.

I refer to Strongs alot to see the original wording. =)

 

[Corbinscam]

My post wasn't about basing all translations. It's about including more then one into your studies. =)

I use multiple translations when studying but would never for any reason include the message because it just isn't as accurate as it should be. Which is exactly what I was referencing. I use kjv, nkjv, esv, nasb, older NIV, and I'm sure there are others and I've never gotten such a blaring difference as this. What I have found is times that the KJV wording missed the point for me. Which is why I try to use multiple translations and also dictionaries when studying.

 

[trofimus]

I refer to Strongs alot to see the original wording. =)

Strongs is the KJV concordance...