LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

[Angela53510]

Thanks for the post Angela how would you define the term legalist?

Trying to please God by outward works that we have prepared for ourselves to do. Grace is doing the exact same things, but because our heart relationship with Christ calls us to do it. God calls us to do it, rather than our flesh or mind. We do these things in the strength and power of the Holy Spirit, not in our own strength.

 

[michael56]

Disinformation.............all I am seeing is people so terrified of being labeled a "legalist," that they utilize disinformation and untruthful representations of my comments here to hide their terror.

Again.......my emphasis is NOT on the Law, my emphasis is on the "FRUITS OF SALVATION." Do you understand what the "fruits of our salvation" are? Apparently not, for you are distorting my comments here to reflect your own beliefs.

How many times must I post.............WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND THAT A GIFT FROM GOD, AND NOT BY WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST...........before those of you so willingly to condemn and label others can understand what I am saying? Our "good works" are the "FRUIT of our salvation," they COME AFTER OUR SALVATION.......they serve as a WITNESS TO OUR SALVATION.........Our obedience to Him is REVEALING OUR LOVE OF HIM.

I sincerely wish all these detractors were honest enough to stop distorting what I have said here. I suppose the fear of being condemned as a "legalist" is just to great a fear to overcome........dunno

You asked this question:

Saved by Grace, through faith.............NOW WHAT?

I responded with this:

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles [SUP]16 [/SUP]know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[SUP][d][/SUP] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.[SUP]17 [/SUP]“But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! [SUP]18 [/SUP]If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal2:15-18

Paul is speaking of how a new convert seeks to be justified in Christ in respect of crossing over from being a slave of sin when they come to Christ, into a person being led into holiness. That is addressing your comment.
If you do not agree, please say so, if you do agree, why find fault with my comment? If you do not understand please say so. That would be more edifying wouldn't it? And you do seem concerned people act in a correct manner on cc

 

[Kaycie]

If you make up laws that God did not.

 

[WheresEnoch]

Legalism is trying to earn God's love by not doing sins.
John 4:16b “God is love.” so you don't have to earn Him
Genesis 4:7 And if you do not do well, sin

 

[michael56]

Comments within your quote so they appear with which they are intended.

Let me address the rest of your comments in one post. I have no problem with people quoting Jesus words. ''Obey my commandments'' That is written in the bible. However, it is then reasonable to ask people if they themselves strive/try, AND IF THEY SUCCEED in obeying every literal command of Christ themselves. Whether they want to obey simply out of love for God, or if they suggest your salvation is in danger if you do not obey them all. It is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

You see, I know there are sincere, and humble converts who read what others state/demand of others, and they assume, people are only insisting of others what they are achieving to in their own life. Then they get crushed and feel much guilt as they are not themselves obeying to the extent others tell them they must. No w I am not perfect, far from it, but I ask this question out of concern especially for newer Christians. I would hope that some might actually think of people such as these, rather than simply trying to reel off doctrine from the head(I am not saying you have done that.

Once again. If people want to demand a person follows all of Christ's commandments, they should be prepared to respond to the reasonable question of do they themselves obey them all.

If people then get upset at being asked the question, that says a lot to me. And if people think it unreasonable to be asked if they themselves obey all of Christ's commandments, could they state which f Christ's commandments they believe should be obeyed and which are acceptable to not obey.

Perhaps you would agree to reply directly to my points, instead of finding fault. That would be more loving wouldn't it?

 

[WheresEnoch]

Let me address the rest of your comments in one post. I have no problem with people quoting Jesus words. ''Obey my commandments'' That is written in the bible. However, it is then reasonable to ask people if they themselves strive/try, AND IF THEY SUCCEED in obeying every literal command of Christ themselves. Whether they want to obey simply out of love for God, or if they suggest your salvation is in danger if you do not obey them all. It is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

You see, I know there are sincere, and humble converts who read what others state/demand of others, and they assume, people are only insisting of others what they are achieving to in their own life. Then they get crushed and feel much guilt as they are not themselves obeying to the extent others tell them they must. No w I am not perfect, far from it, but I ask this question out of concern especially for newer Christians. I would hope that some might actually think of people such as these, rather than simply trying to reel off doctrine from the head(I am not saying you have done that.

Once again. If people want to demand a person follows all of Christ's commandments, they should be prepared to respond to the reasonable question of do they themselves obey them all.

If people then get upset at being asked the question, that says a lot to me. And if people think it unreasonable to be asked if they themselves obey all of Christ's commandments, could they state which f Christ's commandments they believe should be obeyed and which are acceptable to not obey.

Perhaps you would agree to reply directly to my points, instead of finding fault. That would be more loving wouldn't it?

Does God really have a problem with sin? Or just a problem with our hearts?
Aren't we saved by a sincere and continued attitude of repentance and obedience to God?

 

[michael56]

Does God really have a problem with sin? Or just a problem with our hearts?
Aren't we saved by a sincere and continued attitude of repentance and obedience to God?

I think you have to draw the distinction between wilful, deliberate sin, and sin we commit simply because we cannot perfectly obey the whole law of God. Suppose an alcoholic of thirty years becomes a Christian. They in their heart want to stop drinking. It is true that for some the drinking immediately ceases. As one minister said to me. ''It is like you get a bit on deposit'' as it were. But for many they see victory over their sin by faith in Christ. If the alcoholic in their heart desperately wants to be free of the alcohol and they are trusting in Jesus to deliver them from it, that is a very different matter from someone who has been set free of alcohol addiction, gets bored one night and goes to the pub and gets drunk.

The truth is, a sincere convert does not need to look to the literal letter of commandments to obey for the law they are required to keep is within them. Obedience comes from faith(Rom 1:5) The flesh counts for nothing, they can have no confidence in the flesh(themselves) Phil 3:3.

If you are looking to Jesus and trusting him for the change need in you by the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, you cannot at the same time be seeking to wilfully fulfil the desires of the flesh. You will sin, for none are perfect, but you do not want to sin.

I don't think I have ever heard a person who stresses what you must do to obey-retain your salvation give God all the glory for the progress in their Christian life. Yet it is God's glory alone to receive, he will not share that glory with any man

 

[WheresEnoch]

Maybe just tell new believers that if their hands cause them to sin. Cut them off?
Or if it's their eyes, poke them out?

I'm not sure, its a tough question. But I don't think we should cut other peoples hands off if their hands are causing them to sin.

Maybe if they asked for help I would

 

[michael56]

Maybe just tell new believers that if their hands cause them to sin. Cut them off?
Or if it's their eyes, poke them out?

I'm not sure, its a tough question. But I don't think we should cut other peoples hands off if their hands are causing them to sin.

Maybe if they asked for help I would

Jesus said

If your RIGHT eye causes you to sin gouge it out and throw it away. Why did Jesus only say the RIGHT eye? Your left eye can cause you to sin equally as much and would still remain

 

[WheresEnoch]

Jesus said

If your RIGHT eye causes you to sin gouge it out and throw it away. Why did Jesus only say the RIGHT eye? Your left eye can cause you to sin equally as much and would still remain

Maybe it has something to do with the right and left hemispheres of the brain. Jesus knows that removing the right eye is more likely to help certain areas of the brain to stop wanting to sin

 

[michael56]

Maybe it has something to do with the right and left hemispheres of the brain. Jesus knows that removing the right eye is more likely to help certain areas of the brain to stop wanting to sin

Or maybe Jesus was using hyperbole to tell people not to be distracted from following after him by worldly lusts/desires

 

[WheresEnoch]

Or maybe Jesus was using hyperbole to tell people not to be distracted from following after him by worldly lusts/desires

That could be too. The Bible isn't always literal

 

[michael56]

And therein is revealed the web of deception I suspected would soon appear............All who have posted detracting statements towards my statements have "labeled" me one thing or another, have not actually revealed Christian love and fellowship.................YET if I do not...........then, OH GOODNESS.............I'M DOOMED!

As for appropriate responses to comments here on CC.........I strongly suggest that people remember this little idea;

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW............Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.............Do not engage in name calling/labeling of others...........and expect to have them not challenge you on it. Christian love does not mean we are not to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ.......did Christ Himself not show ANGER?

Funny thing is.............all of this doesn't even anger me..........it saddens me to see how Christians are so afraid of being "labeled" something they fear that they will turn from the Gospel of Jesus Christ to curry favor with man.

Goodness................well, I've done enough for now..............will check in later to see what names I am now "labeled" with and what condemnation has been rained down upon me..............

Let me give you an example. I wrote the following:

''I wonder how many people on this thread strive to obey each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels. Anyone who fibs isn't keeping them''

Someone responded


''You shouldn't have to strive to keep any of the commandments, as if you are walking in the Spirit and letting the Holy Spirit guide you then you will automatically keep them.
If you are not keeping them it is of your own doing, and not the Holy Spirit who is in you as you would be denying His guidance.''


Now I responded by asking that person if they were automatically keeping all of Christ's literal commands. Do you think that is an unreasonable question to ask bearing in mind their statement? I do not. That statement can easily be construed as. ''I automatically obey all of Christ's commandments, you must do the same''

Do you not think it would be better for a person to say. ''We should all obey all of Christ's literal commandments(if that is their view) but I myself often fall short in attaining to this?'' Would that be such a hard thing to write in order not give a false impression of yourself, and crush some sincere folk who might actually believe you attain to what you preach?

It seems some folks get upset when you ask for clarification and accuse you of trying to excuse your sin.

 

[WheresEnoch]

It's not like its all that hard to stop sinning. I sin, but I can't really name any sins I have committed in the last week or so. Just a few fleshly reactionary attitudes that I had to submit.

I mean, what kind of sin are we talking about? Hating someone? swearing? stealing? Which ones are so hard for people to stop?

 

[Mitspa]

Basically being a legalist is the attempt to justify oneself by the "letter" and not through the Spirit of God. It can be any set of religious rules that promote a work of the flesh. Faith and love in Jesus Christ are of the Spirit and not the flesh of man.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Having begun in the Spirit by faith..... The works of the law are works of the flesh.

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life


Legalism is of the flesh and it is death to those under its yoke.

 

[The_highwayman]

Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life


Legalism is of the flesh and it is death to those under its yoke.

Ok it took me awhile to try to see where you are coming from and this statement finally shed light on your doctrine and theology....

You are stating that that because the strength of the law is SIN, that the works of the flesh are manifested by those who live under the law....so this is why you bash Christians!

There is no difference between lost or saved in your doctrine...ANYONE who adheres to Mosaic law is manifesting the work of the flesh and because the works of the flesh are death, even Christians are open target for death.

This means you wholly believe that Jesus' work on the Cross was not enough to make anyone righteous. This means Christians who you sense to be under the Law are truly not saved and you feel you have the right to be the HOly Ghost and convinct everyone that does not believe as you do.

This menas that the works of the flesh are not of the SIN nature but of the LAW nature, even though there is no such LAW nature in man....you are either ruled by the Law of SIN and DEATH or the LAW of the Spirit of Life in Jesus Christ!

You and your theology are attempting to state the Law and the Law of SIN and Death are the same, yet they are not....The strength of SIN is the law,but the law is NOT Sin. The Law was given to show people they needed a savior to save them from SIN and Death, not merely save them from the Law as you continually state.

This is why you cannot understand or fathom the workings of evil spirits or devils or the gifts of the Holy Ghost. You state you do, but you don't....you make the Law the devil and have even stated in other posts, the devil is not the cause of SIN, the Law is. Your greatest error is that you do not separate the Mosaic Law from SIN and Death.

If you do not understand the law and its purpose, then you cannot understand grace or the work of the cross.

As a result you blindly make false accusations of people , even Christians, because your understanding is wrong of what the Law was, why it was given, what it represents and the simple fact that the law is NOT SIN as you continue to make it out to be.

God help you mitspa and those you minister this false Gospel to....you are not freeing anyone, or sharing the good news, you are just enforcing the fact that as long as you are not under the Law you are not under SIN and can do it without the shed blood of Jesus Christ. You are stating the law is SIN.....and I dare say you think anyone following even the 10 commandments are headed for a devils hell.

 

[Mitspa]

Ok it took me awhile to try to see where you are coming from and this statement finally shed light on your doctrine and theology....

You are stating that that because the strength of the law is SIN, that the works of the flesh are manifested by those who live under the law....so this is why you bash Christians!

There is no difference between lost or saved in your doctrine...ANYONE who adheres to Mosaic law is manifesting the work of the flesh and because the works of the flesh are death, even Christians are open target for death.

This means you wholly believe that Jesus' work on the Cross was not enough to make anyone righteous. This means Christians who you sense to be under the Law are truly not saved and you feel you have the right to be the HOly Ghost and convinct everyone that does not believe as you do.

This menas that the works of the flesh are not of the SIN nature but of the LAW nature, even though there is no such LAW nature in man....you are either ruled by the Law of SIN and DEATH or the LAW of the Spirit of Life in Jesus Christ!

You and your theology are attempting to state the Law and the Law of SIN and Death are the same, yet they are not....The strength of SIN is the law,but the law is NOT Sin. The Law was given to show people they needed a savior to save them from SIN and Death, not merely save them from the Law as you continually state.

This is why you cannot understand or fathom the workings of evil spirits or devils or the gifts of the Holy Ghost. You state you do, but you don't....you make the Law the devil and have even stated in other posts, the devil is not the cause of SIN, the Law is. Your greatest error is that you do not separate the Mosaic Law from SIN and Death.

If you do not understand the law and its purpose, then you cannot understand grace or the work of the cross.

As a result you blindly make false accusations of people , even Christians, because your understanding is wrong of what the Law was, why it was given, what it represents and the simple fact that the law is NOT SIN as you continue to make it out to be.

God help you mitspa and those you minister this false Gospel to....you are not freeing anyone, or sharing the good news, you are just enforcing the fact that as long as you are not under the Law you are not under SIN and can do it without the shed blood of Jesus Christ. You are stating the law is SIN.....and I dare say you think anyone following even the 10 commandments are headed for a devils hell.

No hypocrites will not inherit the Kingdom of God...and those who reject the grace of God will have their part in the lake of fire.

Legalism is not obedience, faith working by love is.

 

[john832]

^
What highwayman said.

 

[The_highwayman]

No hypocrites will not inherit the Kingdom of God...and those who reject the grace of God will have their part in the lake of fire.

Legalism is not obedience, faith working by love is.

So you are saying legalism is faith working by love!?!?!?

WOW! the deception in you grows.....