Lent is coming

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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
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#41
I don't have any specific issues with a Christian observing the man-made time of Lenten. It is a RCC observance, but if anyone wants to observe it, that's their decision to make. Just don't try to make it a doctrinal thing... it's not. I seem to remember the idea being put forth that a man or wife can withhold marital relations from their spouse for a short time, if it's to allow more devotion of time to prayer, but even that is for a "limited" time, so as not to cause temptation to sin. The practice of sacrificial "giving up" is seen, but it appears to be a personal, individual thing.. not a universal collective observance.
I don't observe Lent, or other RCC creations. I have participated in short, daily or even week-long fasts, when our congregation was in prayer about a specific topic or event, but never just a general "it's time to give something up" kind of thing.
 
B

Buzzard

Guest
#42
The niv, or King James. Exactly, Catholicism wasn't even around when Christ established His church- which proves its not the church Christ started. And God said not to add to the bible after the book of revelation.
:confused:
the NIV
There is something warped with your thinkin there Gal,
Do you get out there somewhere about Neptune often ?????

then it takes the KJV to bring you back to your sences
????
 
Nov 25, 2014
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#43
Lent, btw, isn't a Roman Catholic thing...it's actually a CHURCH CATHOLIC thing (meaning the universal church). There's evidence from sources in the 2nd and 3rd centuries (100s-200s) that people would fast for various lengths of time prior to the celebration of Easter. The establishment of Lent as a 40-day season prior to Easter happened after the first Council at Nicea (after 325). However, you need to remember that the Councils were the UNIVERSAL CHURCH. Bishops from all over came to participate in the Councils--we don't know the exact number, but around 300 bishops from all over Christendom participated. There were bishops from Britain, and all over the Roman Empire. There were more EASTERN bishops present than Western bishops. So, the development of Lent after 325 wasn't a ROMAN thing. Rome was one bishop among many bishops. It was a "church as a whole" thing.

There's a definite connection, btw, between fasting and baptism. Candidates for baptism were encouraged to fast before their baptism, as was the larger community on their behalf. Easter became a time for many to be baptized, which led to fasting happening before Easter, which eventually developed into the season of Lent.

The season of Lent is celebrated by a large segment of Christendom: Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, some sects of Presbyterian, other Calvinist groups, and even some Anabaptist and Evangelical groups observe Lent.

Lent isn't about "doing works" or "showing off." It's actually a time of deep spiritual examination. Many people will opt to simplify their lives by giving up various pleasures or bad habits and refocusing on their need for God. Some people make commitments to DO things...like pray more, or read more scriptures, or give more to the poor. And some people opt to both fast and do more (for example, I've known of people who would give up eating certain pleasure/indulgent things and donate the money they would have spend on those items to the poor). When I was in high school, I fasted from eating lunch and would read through the gospels during that time.

People who weren't raised with a Lenten tradition are sometimes confused by it, or presume it's something it's not. Basically, it's a time of deep spiritual examination before celebrating the resurrection of Jesus. It's a time to pull away from distractions and plug back into God, or to embrace spiritual disciplines that we've let slip.
 
D

DaTK

Guest
#44
Lent is coming! lets a ll dance.. Lent is coming lets all praise.. its here to soon And on its way. Its here and forever here to Stay!
Lent.!
-By D a t k
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
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#45
PoetMary... that's a pretty good explanation of it... probably the best I've heard. I have nothing against it, and meant that it was more a RCC doctrine than a protestant one. I had no idea when it originated. I think that fasting and meditation are highly under-rated, in general. If the early church "strongly suggested" that new believers should fast for a period of time before baptism, I don't think that's wrong, but it certainly doesn't follow the examples set forth by the apostles in their writings. We should be very careful in instituting practices as "requirements" when they actually are simply "preferences".
My dad used a humorous example of how the early churches in the rural Texas areas got all up in arms when some "radical" church didn't cover the bread and wine on the communion table with a white cloth. They insisted that having the cloth was the scriptural way to do it, because that was the way it had always been done. Truth was, the only reason they started doing it in the first place was to keep the flies off of it before the communion. No air conditioning, all the windows open for cool breezes... flies. Was it a good thing to do? You bet! Was it necessary? Nope...

edit:.... and, I've always told people I'm catholic. Just not ROMAN catholic. I believe in, and am a member of the holy catholic church... the universal kingdom...
 
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Buzzard

Guest
#46
Lent, btw, isn't a Roman Catholic thing...it's actually a CHURCH CATHOLIC thing (meaning the universal church). There's evidence from sources in the 2nd and 3rd centuries (100s-200s) that people would fast for various lengths of time prior to the celebration of Easter. The establishment of Lent as a 40-day season prior to Easter happened after the first Council at Nicea (after 325). .
So: That's where it comes from
that figures


Confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil, and to transmute the very instruments and appendages of demon worship to an evangelical use, and feeling also that these usages had originally come from primitive revelations and from the instinct of nature, though they had been corrupted; and that they must invent what they needed, if they did not use what they found; and that they were moreover possessed of the very archetypes, of which paganism attempted the shadows; the rulers of the Church from early times were prepared, should the occasion arise, to adopt, to imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace, as well as the philosophy of the educated class.
"(Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, John Henry Newman, a cardinal by Pope Leo III in 1879, 1878, p351-353)


The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church."
(Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, John Henry Newman, a cardinal by Pope Leo III in 1879, 1878, p351-353)
 
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Buzzard

Guest
#47
Easter and Lent are just 2 Examples of
"Mandrakes"

"the existing rites and customs of the populace,

brought into the church to appeal too the Carnal Mind
to grow the church and increase the Power of the Bishops
both within the church and Politicial especially with Constanine
he was loosing the Civil war and needed something to unite the Empire
the Bishops of Rome were very willing to help



 
Jan 15, 2011
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#48
Except that God specifically says not to adopt, to imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace into our worship of Him as He does not want us to compromise our walk in that fashion nor does He want us to worship Him in those ways.
 
B

Buzzard

Guest
#49
Except that God specifically says not to ...........
:::::: SO ::::::
When has that little "Commandment / Law / Rule / Teaching of Moses" ever stopped any of them
Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant ?????

as long as it "FEeeeeeellllLLLs" (feels) Good; lets do it
 
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sealabeag

Guest
#50
Except that God specifically says not to adopt, to imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace into our worship of Him as He does not want us to compromise our walk in that fashion nor does He want us to worship Him in those ways.
Where does God say that?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#51
Day 13: Scorn

Psalm 69:1-12 (ESV)


Save me, O God! For the waters have come up to my neck. I sink in deep mire, where there is no foothold; I have come into deep waters, and the flood sweeps over me. I am weary with my crying out; my throat is parched. My eyes grow dim with waiting for my God. More in number than the hairs of my head are those who hate me without cause; mighty are those who would destroy me, those who attack me with lies. What I did not steal must I now restore? O God, you know my folly; the wrongs I have done are not hidden from you.

Let not those who hope in you be put to shame through me, O Lord God of hosts; let not those who seek you be brought to dishonor through me, O God of Israel. For it is for your sake that I have borne reproach, that dishonor has covered my face. I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother’s sons. For zeal for your house has consumed me, and the reproaches of those who reproach you have fallen on me. When I wept and humbled my soul with fasting, it became my reproach. When I made sackcloth my clothing, I became a byword to them. I am the talk of those who sit in the gate, and the drunkards make songs about me.


David is drowning in his troubles (vv. 1-3). He is crying out in solitary agony, cast aside by his friends and family (v. 4) and set upon by his foes (v. 8). His reputation is under attack. The champion whose name was once celebrated in the streets is now being mocked in the taverns (v. 12). Israel’s savior is crying for salvation and he hears no reply (v. 3).

The pain we feel when our reputation is under attack is uniquely excruciating. No matter whether we come from cultural backgrounds that prize the family name or are individualists who seek to make a name for ourselves, that name is our resumé. Kill it and we are in danger of a full-blown identity crisis. How are we tempted to respond when it is our reputation that is being assaulted? Do we cover up our flaws? Do we succumb to despair? Do we drive ourselves (and others) crazy in a hopeless quest for perfection? David is on a different track.

Even in his distress, David’s mind is not on himself. He is not preoccupied with his own honor. His zeal is for the Lord’s house. This is what consumes him (v. 9). Honestly confessing his faults, he prays there would be no collateral damage from his own folly that would defame the God of Israel or those who look to him (vv. 5-6). David makes his appeal, boldly staking his claim upon the steadfast love and faithfulness of his just and omniscient Lord (v. 13). In short, he locates himself in God’s own reputation.

Many years later, the one called the Son of David entered the temple in Jerusalem at Passover, driving out the merchants and money-changers. His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house has consumed me” (John 2:17). This confrontation sparked the events that would culminate in the greatest loss of dignity imaginable. The creator of the universe, humiliated as a criminal on a cross, prayed for his enemies, offering them all the benefits of his good name. In Jesus, we inherit an eternal reputation that can never be tarnished.


Prayer
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of David, Son of God, we confess that we have sought too much to make a name for ourselves, and have considered too little the name you have given us. You, whose name is above all names, made yourself of no reputation. You humbled yourself, taking the form of a servant, and endured the violent scorn of those to whom you offered your title. Through the ultimate exchange, you have written your name on our foreheads, and written our names, indelibly, in your Book of Life. Give us the wisdom and faith necessary to humbly receive your exaltation. Teach us by the Spirit and the word to grow together into that name, and thereby to begin to reflect the traits associated with it. For your kingdom, by your power, for your glory, Amen.


Redeemer Presbyterian Church:
http://www.redeemer.com/learn/resources_by_topic/lenten_devotionals/lent_day_13_the_scorn/

 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#53
Every day we are "lenting" if we are Christians. Giving up something to spend more time with the Lord. To me, this is a lifestyle, not a short time thing we should be doing.

Also, I don't need to give up anything to spend time meditating on the cross and sacrifice of Jesus. In fact, it causes me to look at the abundance of everything I have (even food) with a more grateful heart.

However, God look at the motives of a person's heart always. And that is something I can't see - therefor I can't judge those who do take lent in different ways than I do. For me, it is a lifestyle. But to the person who uses a few days for the same thing, it is better than nothing.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#54
I have some dryer lint in my pocket
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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#55
I observe lent every time I reach into my pocket for some change at the check out.

Ash Wednesday, Lent, both pagan, do your research. Pulease don't make me do it for you.