Letters used in Hebrew manuascripts , etc.

[nathan3]

I just post this to get a conversation about learning Hebrew that's used in the manuscripts.

I actually tried to look at some old manuscripts of Isaiah that was online, and try to translated one sentence in it. I failed I used different dictionaries and study tools, but it was harder then I thought. I did recognize one letter in the Isaiah manuscripts I learned from this chart . It would be great if we could read the manuscripts, for whatever reason. If some one says for example, that something is not translated right in the the Bible, if we knew how to read the old Hebrew, then we could put those questions to rest.


I looked at the chart below, and tried to use it to read one sentence in the Isaiah manuscript from the dead sea scrolls put online here >

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

I learned that the Hebrew used in the Isaiah scroll is " late " Hebrew letters. .

 

[crossnote]

I just post this to get a conversation about learning Hebrew that's used in the manuscripts.

I actually tried to look at some old manuscripts of Isaiah that was online, and try to translated one sentence in it. I failed I used different dictionaries and study tools, but it was harder then I thought. I did recognize one letter in the Isaiah manuscripts I learned from this chart . It would be great if we could read the manuscripts, for whatever reason. If some one says for example, that something is not translated right in the the Bible, if we knew how to read the old Hebrew, then we could put those questions to rest.


I looked at the chart below, and tried to use it to read one sentence in the Isaiah manuscript from the dead sea scrolls put online here >

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

I learned that the Hebrew used in the Isaiah scroll is " late " Hebrew letters. .

Here is a link that will work in your Esword program that has the ancient Hebrew alphabet/lexicon/pictographs etc. etc. coded/linked to Strongs.

My only hesitation with it all is that one is still dependent on the given definitions in a lexicon, but yes overall it's helpful but not a cure-all.

 

[crossnote]

Here is a download page and for fonts

 

[kenisyes]

There were Hebrew Scribes who would not read the Bible in the Hebrew we use. They insisted that God wrote it in the older letters, and only those count. They argue that the shpaes themselves contain revelation, and sometimes i can see the point.

 

[tribesman]

There were Hebrew Scribes who would not read the Bible in the Hebrew we use. They insisted that God wrote it in the older letters, and only those count. They argue that the shpaes themselves contain revelation, and sometimes i can see the point.

Care to expound a little on that in bold? Sounds interesting.

 

[kenisyes]

Care to expound a little on that in bold? Sounds interesting.

I have not read the entire Talmud, just piecemeal, and I don't have specific references. But scribes and rabbis would often join two words by a nearly-matching letter. Like the line from the play the Music Man "we got trouble in River City, with a capital T and that rhymes with P, and that stands for pool". In Hebrew, if the letters are close, and changing to the other letter spells a new word, you might be able to make a teaching out of it.

I'm making this up for illustration. In traditional Hebrew (chart above) R look like D. RWD is a Hebrew word (strong's 7300) meaning to travel about, rule, and mourn. All three are true of David, whose name in Hebrew is DWD. Let me also add, the Y in Hebrew is just a dot at the top ot the line, and it is the beginning of God's name, YHWH. So one could develop a teaching in Hebrew, that makes no sense in English, connecting both through the root of david's name, meaning to boil. Something like, "without God you become a mournful would-be-ruler roaming aimlessly. But David gave his life to God, and all God had to do was add one tiny beginning of His presence to the R making it a D, and look what happened, and how boiling with love for God David became".

Got the idea? They did a lot of this. Now look again, the teaching does not work in primitive Hebrew, because the letter shapes are different, and you can't play the "add a dot game". When you switch alphabets, you get a whole group of different teachings from the letters.

The Jews tell a story: While Moses was on the mountain, God was writing Torah down for him, and He let Moses watch. God was going out of His way to add extra little flourishes on many letters. Moses asked why God was doing this, and God answered, "in the future there will be a rabbi in Israel who will get teachings from the flourishes. I want to make certain he uses all the teaching gifts I have given him."

So, when Jesus says "not a jot, nor a tittle shall pass away", this is the tradition He is referring to.

 

[crossnote]

I've recently been a little suspicious that modern Hebrew alphabet sounded too similar to the Greek not to raise eyebrows...

Aleph=Alpha
Beth =Beta
Gimel=Gamma
Dalet=Delta

Etc. Etc.

 

[wdeaton65]

I was wondering when people would get to this point this is the hebrew GOD and Moses used to write the Torah

The aleph and the tov the leader on the cross from the very beginning GOD gives us HIS picture and plan. Men calling themselves rabbis will not be able to understand these type of writing without the Holy Spirit. I didnt want to be the one to bring this topic up because it is so powerful and the truth of the text destroys all these petty arguements. GOD is great. Blessings I would be willing to answer any questions you have and there is evidence of this type of writing all over the world. Including money being used at the time of the Messiah.

 

[kenisyes]

I was wondering when people would get to this point this is the hebrew GOD and Moses used to write the Torah

The aleph and the tov the leader on the cross from the very beginning GOD gives us HIS picture and plan. Men calling themselves rabbis will not be able to understand these type of writing without the Holy Spirit. I didnt want to be the one to bring this topic up because it is so powerful and the truth of the text destroys all these petty arguements. GOD is great. Blessings I would be willing to answer any questions you have and there is evidence of this type of writing all over the world. Including money being used at the time of the Messiah.

Your argument needs to be a little more sophisticated, WD. I know many of the primitive Hebrew letters from the Egyptian "alphabet", where they have different phonetic values. It is entirely possible that this is simply some kind of ancient alphabet taken around the world by the Phoenecians (who seem to get credit for everything from before 1000BC). At some point, we need to consider how God took the "general" alphabet, and made it His own, for His people, so that the interpretations we are discussing would be contained in the letters themselves. There is nothing in Scripture to imply that either in Egypt, nor at Sinai, did God cause the Egyptian alphabet to be "adapted" for the Hebrew language. I'm sure He did, but it would be nice if we could get some idea of under what circumstances.

 

[crossnote]

I was wondering when people would get to this point this is the hebrew GOD and Moses used to write the Torah

The aleph and the tov the leader on the cross from the very beginning GOD gives us HIS picture and plan. Men calling themselves rabbis will not be able to understand these type of writing without the Holy Spirit. I didnt want to be the one to bring this topic up because it is so powerful and the truth of the text destroys all these petty arguements. GOD is great. Blessings I would be willing to answer any questions you have and there is evidence of this type of writing all over the world. Including money being used at the time of the Messiah.

Well although this topic interests me, I am by no means an expert (barely a novice) so I'll watch hoping somerhing comes of it.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I've recently been a little suspicious that modern Hebrew alphabet sounded too similar to the Greek not to raise eyebrows...

Aleph=Alpha
Beth =Beta
Gimel=Gamma
Dalet=Delta

Etc. Etc.

both the greek and hebrew alphabets come from an earlier source...

 

[wdeaton65]

You will never be fooled again by any man once you learn how powerful and full of life the picture GOD paints with HIS word.
You can see something in the very ha shem or name YHWH it is a picture of Yeshua the man nailed between two men I wont start because I dont want another blossom video LOL Rachael That was cute and funny video Rachael. Blessings

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I was wondering when people would get to this point this is the hebrew GOD and Moses used to write the Torah

The aleph and the tov the leader on the cross from the very beginning GOD gives us HIS picture and plan. Men calling themselves rabbis will not be able to understand these type of writing without the Holy Spirit. I didnt want to be the one to bring this topic up because it is so powerful and the truth of the text destroys all these petty arguements. GOD is great. Blessings I would be willing to answer any questions you have and there is evidence of this type of writing all over the world. Including money being used at the time of the Messiah.

this is just old rabbinic superstition...

you cannot go through the words letter by letter seeking hidden messages...it is not legitimate exegesis...

it is the kind of thing the talmudists called 'remez' and 'derash' interpretation...and they loved using it to pull ideas from the text that aren't really there...

 

[wdeaton65]

this is just old rabbinic superstition...

you cannot go through the words letter by letter seeking hidden messages...it is not legitimate exegesis...

it is the kind of thing the talmudists called 'remez' and 'derash' interpretation...and they loved using it to pull ideas from the text that aren't really there...

No rachael you cant I can

 

[kenisyes]

No rachael you cant I can

Some people can find God in anything!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

No rachael you cant I can

ok then...so you are claiming to have found 'secret knowledge' that the uninitiated don't get...just like the gnostics and the kabbalists and so on...

i thought you said you abandoned all that rabbinic stuff?

 

[wdeaton65]

Go find a rabbi and get him on here then we will talk he will never debate me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rabbis do not know this rachael the kabalah dosent teach this this all points to YESHUA get over yourself young lady.

 

[ANIOHEVTORAH]

I just post this to get a conversation about learning Hebrew that's used in the manuscripts.

I actually tried to look at some old manuscripts of Isaiah that was online, and try to translated one sentence in it. I failed I used different dictionaries and study tools, but it was harder then I thought. I did recognize one letter in the Isaiah manuscripts I learned from this chart . It would be great if we could read the manuscripts, for whatever reason. If some one says for example, that something is not translated right in the the Bible, if we knew how to read the old Hebrew, then we could put those questions to rest.


I looked at the chart below, and tried to use it to read one sentence in the Isaiah manuscript from the dead sea scrolls put online here >

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

I learned that the Hebrew used in the Isaiah scroll is " late " Hebrew letters. .

The late hebrew is also known as the paleo hebrew. It is also believed but can't be proven exactly, that the Torah (books of Moses) were written in pictography hebrew (picture letters)(also known as ancient hebrew) much like you see of the egyptian hieroglyphs. I have a copy of the Torah written in picto hebrew, it's really awesome. It's fun to read. The dead sea scroll Museum has the entire Isaiah scroll under glass in a circular display. It is awesome.

 

[wdeaton65]

Yeshua says not me. John 5;39 Search the scriptures HE says they TESTIFY of HIM what do you think HE is talking about Kabalah deals with the form and function of the babylonian text deconstruting each letter not pictures that point to Yeshua.
All around the world the Lord is at work nobody is going to stop HIM from showing those who are willing to learn.
I hope some of you look into this.

 

[wdeaton65]

Your argument needs to be a little more sophisticated, WD. I know many of the primitive Hebrew letters from the Egyptian "alphabet", where they have different phonetic values. It is entirely possible that this is simply some kind of ancient alphabet taken around the world by the Phoenecians (who seem to get credit for everything from before 1000BC). At some point, we need to consider how God took the "general" alphabet, and made it His own, for His people, so that the interpretations we are discussing would be contained in the letters themselves. There is nothing in Scripture to imply that either in Egypt, nor at Sinai, did God cause the Egyptian alphabet to be "adapted" for the Hebrew language. I'm sure He did, but it would be nice if we could get some idea of under what circumstances.

Yes brother I think I need to learn how to be a little more descriptive in my explanations it is one thing to read and understand these things but another issue all together to teach people. Look up the columns Solomn put to mark where they crossed the red sea it is in paleo hebrew. Blessings and thanks Ken