LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[vic1980]

What are your views on this matter, if you have time watch the entire video, and if possible give me sum feed back .Thanks i appreciate it and God bless you ,and your Family in Jesus mighty name amen.

[video=youtube;OprnFnUjslA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprnFnUjslA[/video]

Pick up your cross and follow christ

 

[RedTent]

I have to go get my bread out of the oven, I can't watch the video, but I feel SO strongly about this. There are people on cc who talk of the love of our Savior being such that we don't need to live a life that follows what God says, the Holy Spirit that God gave us so we understand Him can be trusted to overcome every desire we have to sin.

God also gave us free will. We can know Him, and use our free will to choose sin, and sin kills.

Not only that, but I think the devil us using these people to instill in them that they need not work (yes I said work) to avoid sin. The devil knows scripture, and the devil knows how to use scripture for his promotion of death and destruction. The more he can get the church to accept sin, the closer he is to winning. The devil is promoting the idea of the Holy Spirit winning over sin, when it takes the Holy Spirit and the free will.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Salvation cannot be lost. Since salvation is of the Lord. When a person gets saved, that person is placed into the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:27). And he is sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13 & Eph. 4:30). Christians are bought with a price. God purchased them with His own blood (Acts 20:28). So again, salvation cannot be lost in the Church Age (Dispensation of Grace).

 

[Apostol2013]

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
here we see the message of the testimony of these believers being blemished to the point they are about to be bloted out the lambs book of life there is a real danger to not living a life totaly surrendered to jesus in full sanctification for ity is written be holy for I am Holy

 

[Bookends]

Once you obtain salvation, you can't lose it. And Rev. 3:1 nor any of the letters to the 7 churches are poor proof texts to use for those who believe salvation can be lost. The 7 Churches contained both saved and unsaved individuals, the unsaved are of those who wanted the best of both camps, the world and religion. During this time in the 1st Century was the worst time in Christian history regarding persecution, for Satan did not want the universal Church to take hold and had already at this time penetrated the church... The wishy washy Christians would have buckled under this persecution and sided with Rome or the Jewish Zealots, and would have claimed Caesar as a God or fallen back into Judaism. Jesus warns the members of these churches not comprise the faith with the perversions of the world, nor the synagogue of Satan (the old Jewish tradition of temple sacrifice) and those who endure and persevere will be an overcomer, It's a message of encouragement and vindication to those 1st Century Christians during the birth pains of the Christian church.

 

[Bookends]

Once you obtain salvation, you can't lose it. And Rev. 3:1 nor any of the letters to the 7 churches are poor proof texts to use for those who believe salvation can be lost. The 7 Churches contained both saved and unsaved individuals, the unsaved are of those who wanted the best of both camps, the world and religion. During this time in the 1st Century was the worst time in Christian history regarding persecution, for Satan did not want the universal Church to take hold and had already at this time penetrated the church... The wishy washy Christians would have buckled under this persecution and sided with Rome or the Jewish Zealots, and would have claimed Caesar as a God or fallen back into Judaism. Jesus warns the members of these churches not comprise the faith with the perversions of the world, nor the synagogue of Satan (the old Jewish tradition of temple sacrifice) and those who endure and persevere will be an overcomer, It's a message of encouragement and vindication to those 1st Century Christians during the birth pains of the Christian church.

Besides this, these Churches were in danger of loosing their blessing from God, which ultimately would lead to their destruction...It not about individual salvation, but a local church as a whole, in danger of caving under the pressures of the world.

 

[Bookends]

What are your views on this matter, if you have time watch the entire video, and if possible give me sum feed back .Thanks i appreciate it and God bless you ,and your Family in Jesus mighty name amen.

[video=youtube;OprnFnUjslA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprnFnUjslA[/video]

Pick up your cross and follow christ

Sorry I don't have an hour to watch this, and I'm guessing I probably wouldn't agree w him anyway. Whats his main point?

 

[RedTent]

Salvation cannot be lost. Since salvation is of the Lord. When a person gets saved, that person is placed into the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:27). And he is sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13 & Eph. 4:30). Christians are bought with a price. God purchased them with His own blood (Acts 20:28). So again, salvation cannot be lost in the Church Age (Dispensation of Grace).

In order to be saved our sins must be forgiven. If you live in sin and do not ask for forgiveness, you are not forgiven. This is what is of the Lord. Are you saying that isn't so? What Jesus bought for us at a price is the way for us to be forgiven. You seem to say that we have no part in that except to accept the Holy Spirit, nothing more. That cannot be.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

In order to be saved our sins must be forgiven. If you live in sin and do not ask for forgiveness, you are not forgiven. This is what is of the Lord. Are you saying that isn't so? What Jesus bought for us at a price is the way for us to be forgiven. You seem to say that we have no part in that except to accept the Holy Spirit, nothing more. That cannot be.

Well Redtent, at salvation a person's sins and transgressions are forgiven and they are remitted.

No true born again Christian can lose their salvation Redtent. And that is a Biblical truth ma'am.

A Christian confesses their sins to maintain good fellowship with their Heavenly Father while on this earth (see 1 John 1:9).


Consider the following scenario:

Let's say a Christian committed a sin; and that was he lost his temper and cussed. And he did not confess that sin, and that same day he got into a fatal car accident. Would that Christian go to heaven?

Absolutely. That Christian would go to heaven. Why? Because his sins and trespasses (all of them have already been forgiven).


7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. - 1 John 1:7 (KJV)


13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; - Colossians 2:13 (KJV)

 

[Hizikyah]

Future sins are not covered by the blood, only confession can forgive future sins


Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."

None can partake of the Holy Spirit unless they have confessed the Messiah, yet they can still fall short

Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."

Shaul was certianly what mmost Chritians call "born again", yet he knew he could fall short if he wasnt obedient

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Why would Yahshua say this if it was impossible for one to be "blotted out of the book of life?"

Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."

Judge nothing before the time, as we are not the judge of oue Salvation anyway

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

 

[jandian]

Besides this, these Churches were in danger of loosing their blessing from God, which ultimately would lead to their destruction...It not about individual salvation, but a local church as a whole, in danger of caving under the pressures of the world.

Churches dont go in the book of life. People go into the book of life.

 

[RedTent]

Well Redtent, at salvation a person's sins and transgressions are forgiven and they are remitted.
No true born again Christian can lose their salvation Redtent. And that is a Biblical truth ma'am.
A Christian confesses their sins to maintain good fellowship with their Heavenly Father while on this earth (see 1 John 1:9).
Consider the following scenario:
Let's say a Christian committed a sin; and that was he lost his temper and cussed. And he did not confess that sin, and that same day he got into a fatal car accident. Would that Christian go to heaven?
Absolutely. That Christian would go to heaven. Why? Because his sins and trespasses (all of them have already been forgiven).
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. - 1 John 1:7 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; - Colossians 2:13 (KJV)

If it was so that we can be the person who curse and storms, and there is no judgment then a lot of the bible is wrong. If Christ simply cleanses all of sins, we have no part in it, it is just done, then heaven wouldn't be a place we were safe from sin. Every book of the bible has instructions in it about how to live within the kingdom, and it says nothing about cursing to live there. Almost all covenants are reciprocal, we have our part in them.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can his faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister is without clothes and lacks daily food
James 2:16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you don't give them what the body needs, what good is it?
James 2:17 In the same way faith, if it doesn't have works, is dead by itself.
James 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith from my works.
James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe--and they shudder.
James 2:20 Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

If it was so that we can be the person who curse and storms, and there is no judgment then a lot of the bible is wrong. If Christ simply cleanses all of sins, we have no part in it, it is just done, then heaven wouldn't be a place we were safe from sin. Every book of the bible has instructions in it about how to live within the kingdom, and it says nothing about cursing to live there. Almost all covenants are reciprocal, we have our part in them.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can his faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister is without clothes and lacks daily food
James 2:16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you don't give them what the body needs, what good is it?
James 2:17 In the same way faith, if it doesn't have works, is dead by itself.
James 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith from my works.
James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe--and they shudder.
James 2:20 Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless?

Redtent, the issue is whether or not a Christian can lose their salvation. And the answer is simply no. They cannot lose their salvation. Now we are to live according to the Bible and we are to grow in sanctification and holiness.

But remember in this dispensation, we are not saved by doing good works. But we are saved by the precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.


And we are saved unto good works (Eph. 2:10). We do good works because we are saved.


And also it should be noted that the book of James is doctrinally for the Jews during the time of Jacob's trouble. It is aimed primarily at them during that time period. We can still get a lot out of the book of James for instruction in righteousness. But just remember that James is writing to the twelve tribes scattered abroad:


1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. - James 1:1 (KJV)

 

[thecreationtutor]

losing salvation impossible, having or not having salvation, possible

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Besides this, these Churches were in danger of loosing their blessing from God, which ultimately would lead to their destruction...It not about individual salvation, but a local church as a whole, in danger of caving under the pressures of the world.

I also think it is about the usefullness in Gods kingdom as a whole.

the CHURCH was what the letters were addressed to. Not individuals. God can bless a church and use them to do his will. If a church falls (even though their may still be saved people in them) their usefullness is taken away, or the lamp is put out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In order to be saved our sins must be forgiven. If you live in sin and do not ask for forgiveness, you are not forgiven.

This is what the law teaches. Christ came to fulfill the law and do what we CAN NOT DO. Being good is never going to save you. Being bad can not hurt you, because we are already deserving of eternal condemnation.

Why do people want to continue to go back to the law?? Do you actually think God is actually going to save someone who has not repented. and he KNOWS will continue to live in sin?? WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what is of the Lord. Are you saying that isn't so? What Jesus bought for us at a price is the way for us to be forgiven. You seem to say that we have no part in that except to accept the Holy Spirit, nothing more. That cannot be.

yet this is what scripture teaches.

No matter how good I am, I will NEVER be good enough to earn salvation. Thus I can never be good enough to earn anything.. why do people think I could ever be good enough?? It boggles my mind!

 

[Bookends]

I also think it is about the usefullness in Gods kingdom as a whole.

the CHURCH was what the letters were addressed to. Not individuals. God can bless a church and use them to do his will. If a church falls (even though their may still be saved people in them) their usefullness is taken away, or the lamp is put out.

Yes I agree, this is the application we draw and apply to our lives and benefit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Of course it's possible to fall away and be lost. Why would there be so many warnings to do things to avoid that fate if it weren't true?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Future sins are not covered by the blood, only confession can forgive future sins

Again, this is taught by law. And to be honest, this is not even taught by law. The high priest went in every year at the day of atonement, and sacrificed to forgive ALL the sin of the people. confessed or not. It gave them a clean slate.

Jesus died once, the high priest no longer sacrifices for us.

why do you want to go to law??

Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."

why did you leave alot of this passage out?? This is talking about people BEFORE THE CROSS. Not us!!

[SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, thatHe might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Where in this passage does it say we EARN justification by continued repentance and begging God to forgive us (confess) Where does it say we must get saved over and over again?? Why do you want to take a "freely given" to mean "continue to earn by confession or else"

None can partake of the Holy Spirit unless they have confessed the Messiah, yet they can still fall short

they can ONLY fall short if their faith is not pure.. Only those who have a belief, not faith, In the work and promises of God can fall short. Once someone has TRUE faith. They will CONTINUE to fall short (for all have sinned and fall short) but God will keep his promise.. He does not expect us to be perfect. He KNOWS we can;t!

Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."

Again, You only posted part. So much wrong here.

1. it says they can not be renewed. Thus if salvation was lost. They could NEVER confess again to be saved, they lost it forever. This alone destroys your idea of confessing after every sin.
2. The passage goes on talking in symbolic form. Saying the person could be NEAR to being cursed. This does not say they WILL be cursed (lose salvation)

Shaul was certianly what mmost Chritians call "born again", yet he knew he could fall short if he wasnt obedient

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Salvation is a gift. Not a reward. Thus this IS NOT talking about salvation. Did you not read romans 4 or the MANY other passages which say grace is not earned, otherwise it is not grace??

Why do you want to be like the people of galations? do you want to start it by the spirit, yet attempt to perfect your gift in the flesh?? What did paul call them?? Fools!

why bother!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I agree, this is the application we draw and apply to our lives and benefit.

Amen, we can be part of the church and its light, or we can help bring the church down..