Mathew 24:44

[Bladerunner]

I'm in the middle of reading the entire book of Mathew, and eventually reading the entire Bible cover to cover. This morning I read Mathew 23 and 24, I understand that it talks about Jesus's return, 37-42 compares his return to the times of Noah, where they went about their lives not believing what he said, and not realizing he spoke the truth until it was too late. I still had a bit of trouble understanding it

Samuel....It was a wicked world back in those days. The Nephilim, CHimeras, etc. were among them; Noah did not know when the flood would come but He did know that there would not be a flood until after Methuselah had died. In actuality, the Bible tells us that the flood happened very shortly after Methuselah died at the age of 969.

 

[popeye]

You may believe in a rapture and then a second coming, to bad it is not in the bible and therefore cannot occur. Why do folks like to add to the scriptures? Read the NT, it teaches the return of Christ, not two returns of Christ.

What do you do with rev 14?

A gathering by Jesus BEFORE the 2nd coming.

In the bible.

 

[tanakh]

This means there will be a Rapture----- we know when the Second Coming of Christ is----- 1260 days from the Abomination of Desolation in the middle of the Tribulation...

The Son of Man will send forth his Angels and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend
and them that do iniquity. And cast them into a furnace of fire there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the Sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Matt 13:41 -43

In the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares Jesus tells his Disciples that at his coming will send his Angels to separate the wheat from the Tares. According to the popular views of the rapture, Jesus comes invisibly to take the righteous living and dead from the earth before the tribulation ends and the rest of the world carries on its way until he comes again in judgement. This goes completely against the parable. I believe the rapture takes place at the Lords second coming when we meet him in the air and accompany him and his Angels to the earth to defeat the Antichrist at Armageddon.

Jesus warned of a number of signs that would occur before his coming and that we should be ready for him when they start happening. As I mentioned earlier on this thread I have read that the Day and The Hour saying relates to the start of the New Year festival

 

[JaumeJ]

All who believe Jesus Christs are well aware no man knows the day or the hour Jesus will return, but we are all taught to be prepared at all times............So, be anxious in season and out..............but if you are prepared, You are waiting for Him, no matter when He returns, amen.

While reading the Bible this morning I came across a verse I had a hard time understanding and I thought maybe somebody on here could help. The verse in question states "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." I reread it a few times hoping to gain a better understanding and what I've come up with is that it means Jesus comes back when nobody expects him to, when nobody thinks he will. So does this mean that Jesus will wait until a time where so many are in unbelief and don't think he's coming back, or is there some other explanation for it?

 

[jb]

The gathering of the church (rapture):

1 Cor.15:51-53)

In the passage you quote, 1Cor 15v55 teaches that when the resurrection of Christians and those living receive their resurrection bodies and meet the Lord Jesus in the air (1Thess 4v13-17) to be with Him forever that "Death is swallowed up in victory." This is a quotation from the OT in Isaiah 25v8:

"And in this mountain The Lord of hosts will make for all people A feast of choice pieces, A feast of wines on the lees, Of fat things full of marrow, Of well-refined wines on the lees. (with Rev 19v7,8) And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the Lord has spoken. And it will be said in that day: "Behold, this is our God; We have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the Lord; We have waited for Him; We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."

This passage clearly teaches that this event occurs at the Second Coming Of Christ when the marriage supper of the Lamb, the destruction of Antichrist and his armies and the setting up of the Millennium kingdom take place and not three and a half years earlier immediately before the Great Tribulation as you say. Rev 11v15-18, 19v7,8.

 

[PlainWord]

The Question:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

AD 30-68:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But he who endures to the end shall be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


AD 68-70:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

FUTURE:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. [SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[jb]

The Question:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

AD 30-68:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But he who endures to the end shall be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


AD 68-70:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

FUTURE:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. [SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This time frame does not fit in with Dan 9v27!

See Here and Here

 

[PlainWord]

This time frame does not fit in with Dan 9v27!

See Here and Here

Sure it does.

God gave the Children of Israel 490 years to accomplish certain things. Chief among those things was to make an end of sins and to make reconciliation for their iniquity. They didn't do either. Therefore judgment came to them some 40 years later. The destruction of the temple and city was NOT part of the 490 years. You won't find God to have constrained Himself as to when He would bring judgment for their failure to stop sinning and to reconcile to Him for their sins.

 

[Crustyone]

You may believe in a rapture and then a second coming, to bad it is not in the bible and therefore cannot occur. Why do folks like to add to the scriptures? Read the NT, it teaches the return of Christ, not two returns of Christ.

Your right that I used to believe in a rapture, but after studying it more I have also come to the conclusion that you are right about that also. No rapture. I like to remain open minded to make changes where necessary and this was necessary.

 

[tanakh]

Your right that I used to believe in a rapture, but after studying it more I have also come to the conclusion that you are right about that also. No rapture. I like to remain open minded to make changes where necessary and this was necessary.

I also believe there is only one second coming. When I first became a Christian in the early seventies I read Hal Lindseys
Late great planet earth and was enthralled by it. I expected to be zapped up in the clouds at any moment. But then My knowledge of the Bible was quite limited. Later having had conversations with others and doing some studying and reading I realised that it was a delusion. A strong one at that.

One main problem surrounding the debate is the word Rapture. One mention of it leads to the assumption that one is talking about the Pre Trib Rapture. I have lost count of the times that someone has asked me Do you believe in the Rapture? Saying no can lead to some quite hostile reactions while saying yes makes you a''real Christian'' What Paul was talking about was the resurrection of the righteous dead and the spiritual transformation of the living. I believe this takes place at the return of Christ.

 

[Crustyone]

tanakh, I realized that the rapture was at the second coming of Christ, but was confused by the idea of Him coming spiritually and then physically, I guess. At any rate I thought that when we were taken into the air with Him, He wasn't going to do anything about earth until later when He came down to start the 1000 year millennium and and I am not even sure of the 1000 year thing happening anymore. Study, study, study.

 

[PlainWord]

Or maybe arms stood on his part and by them the daily sacrifice was taken away?

John and the zealots?

 

[PlainWord]

As to the Op, I believe Mat 24:1-26 dealt with 70 AD events. The "great tribulation" in verse 21 dealt with the total destruction and desolation of Jerusalem. Then starting in verse 27, Jesus transitions to discuss His Second (and only) Coming. Verse 28 contains "the tribulation of those days" that Jesus mentions in verse 29:

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.[SUP] 29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days...

Jesus returns after the "Carcass-Eagles" event. The wicked are the ones taken and they are taken to the "Body" where the eagles are gathered. We see this a little clearer in Luke 17 as the disciples specifically ask where they are taken:


[SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

When Christ comes, He comes as fast as lightening. It will be like in the days of Noah and Lot meaning their will be much wickedness and the wicked will have no idea what is about to befall them, that is, being taken to a place of slaughter and scavenging birds to eat their flesh. See Rev 19.