Meat sacrificed to idols (Halal) YES or NO

[Deade]

I know you are thinking that sacrifice is a ceremonial event/a once in a while worship event but like i have already pointed out, to them, this daily event (eating halal meat- not even slaughtering, eating) is worship of their deity. Go do some research, you'll find according to the book/texts, it is indeed worship- so this makes it a sacrifice.

Noose why not let Paul answer the very thing you are talking about: 1 Cor. 10:23-31: "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth. Whatsoever is sold in the shambles [meat markets], that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

"But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."

Paul says it will not defile you, but if someone tells you it was idol meat: don't eat it for their sake. It couldn't be more simple. Go to the meat market and buy anything, it means nothing.

 

[Redeemed2015]

Does this mean I gotta give up bacon?

Naw, you should give up bacon because G-D actually says so in HIS word.
See Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14

 

[joefizz]

Naw, you should give up bacon because G-D actually says so in HIS word.
See Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14

Really?then why did the Lord insist Simon Peter "kill and eat" animals in past time forbidden to Jewish people?

 

[7777pinacled]

Naw, you should give up bacon because G-D actually says so in HIS word.
See Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14

Oh,
As if someone looking at the letter could expound with a Blessing.

swine 'lack',a cloven foot.

And so,
No matter the occasion. An offense proceeds the effort of the heart.

I was reminded of the prodigal son.
Once he/she realized that the swine were fed by no concern or diligence of their own work.
Perhaps a lesson here is that the prodigal was brought to a humility of a Honorable Peace and respect for a Faithfull Redeemer.

 

[Redeemed2015]

Really?then why did the Lord insist Simon Peter "kill and eat" animals in past time forbidden to Jewish people?

You speak of Peter's Vision in Acts 10. Let's look at it. Beginning in verse 9

"The next day, as the soldiers were traveling and approaching the city, Peter went up to the rooftop to pray, at about the sixth hour. Now he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they were preparing something, he fell into a trance."

So, here we have Peter who is staying in Joppa as a guest to Simon the Tanner. While waiting for a meal to be prepared Peter is on the roof, while there it is understood he was praying and while doing so falls into a trance, and has a vision.

Let's continue with verse 11

"He saw the heavens opened, and something like a great sheet coming down, lowered by its four corners to the earth. In it were all sorts of four-footed animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
A voice came to him, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.' "

In Peter's Vision he sees a sheet lowered from the heavens with a multitude of unclean meats. A great voice, understood to be G-D tells Peter to "Kill and eat." Interesting, surely Peter would have immediately obeyed, right? Well, lets see in verse 14



"But Peter said, 'Certainly not, Lord! For never have I eaten anything unholy or unclean.'

Wait, what? Peter not only tells G-D no, but he doubles down and says shows himself approved by saying he has NEVER eaten what is "unholy or unclean". Let's see how G-D responds in verse 12


[FONT=&quot]"Again a voice came to him, a second time: 'What God has made clean, you must not consider unholy.' "[/FONT]

Here we see G-D speaking about what he HAS(past tense) made clean. So, this verse can't be used to justify eating what is called unclean to ALL believers, not just Jews.

I'm sure Peter came to the same conclusion you did on his vision. I'm sure he even understood it right away. Well, why speculate, let's KEEP READING.
Verse 16

[FONT=&quot]"This happened three times, and the sheet was immediately taken up to heaven. Now, while Peter was puzzled about what the vision he had seen might mean, behold, the men sent by Cornelius found Simon’s house and appeared before the gate."[/FONT]

Welp, so much for understanding the Vision right away. Peter had this Vision THREE times! And was still puzzled by it. Surely, if it were as simple as "all meat is now clean" Peter would have said so. If only Peter interpreted his vision for us...Oh wait, he did.

Verse 28, (Peter has gathered at the home of Cornelius the Centurion, a righteous man in the eyes of G-D.)

[FONT=&quot]"He said to them, “You yourselves know that it is not permitted for a Jewish man to associate with a non-Jew or to visit him. Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean."[/FONT]

Peter interpreted his Vision for us. After being puzzled initially, Peter came to a single conclusion on what the Vision meant, that we are to "call no MAN uncommon or unclean". The vision was about People! Specifically Gentiles in regards to Talmudic Law(man-made law, not G-D's Law/i.e Man-Made Tradition) which dictated that a Jew is not to associate with Gentiles in private, as according to Talmudic Law Gentiles were unclean. But according to G-D, "whom (HE) has made clean(in Messiah), let no man call unclean"

This is what the meaning of Peter's Vision is according to Peter himself, which aligns perfectly with G-D's Law, The Torah.

 

[Redeemed2015]

Oh,
As if someone looking at the letter could expound with a Blessing.

swine 'lack',a cloven foot.

And so,
No matter the occasion. An offense proceeds the effort of the heart.

I was reminded of the prodigal son.
Once he/she realized that the swine were fed by no concern or diligence of their own work.
Perhaps a lesson here is that the prodigal was brought to a humility of a Honorable Peace and respect for a Faithfull Redeemer.

You really didn't understand the Parable of the Prodigal Son. The Parable is teaching of Israel and Judah being reunited to The Father. The Prodigal son representing the 10 Tribes of The Kingdom of Israel that were captured by the Assyrians and were dispersed among the Nations(Gentiles), known as the Diaspora, as a result for their disobedience and G-D's divorcing them, see Jeremiah 3:8. The Faithful Son depicting the Kingdom of Judah who, while remaining faithful, hardened their hearts and became prideful in their own self-righteousness. The Parable tells of how The Father seeks to reunite with Israel as long as they shall humble themselves and repent(teshuvah = return to(G-D)) I encourage you to study more.

 

[7777pinacled]

You really didn't understand the Parable of the Prodigal Son. The Parable is teaching of Israel and Judah being reunited to The Father. The Prodigal son representing the 10 Tribes of The Kingdom of Israel that were captured by the Assyrians and were dispersed among the Nations(Gentiles), known as the Diaspora, as a result for their disobedience and G-D's divorcing them, see Jeremiah 3:8. The Faithful Son depicting the Kingdom of Judah who, while remaining faithful, hardened their hearts and became prideful in their own self-righteousness. The Parable tells of how The Father seeks to reunite with Israel as long as they shall humble themselves and repent(teshuvah = return to(G-D)) I encourage you to study more.

True,
I once lacked the Spirit of Understanding.

Till the time came..

 

[7777pinacled]

You really didn't understand the Parable of the Prodigal Son. The Parable is teaching of Israel and Judah being reunited to The Father. The Prodigal son representing the 10 Tribes of The Kingdom of Israel that were captured by the Assyrians and were dispersed among the Nations(Gentiles), known as the Diaspora, as a result for their disobedience and G-D's divorcing them, see Jeremiah 3:8. The Faithful Son depicting the Kingdom of Judah who, while remaining faithful, hardened their hearts and became prideful in their own self-righteousness. The Parable tells of how The Father seeks to reunite with Israel as long as they shall humble themselves and repent(teshuvah = return to(G-D)) I encourage you to study more.

A royal priesthood without a royal law is only something the evil one would project.

 

[graceNpeace]

You speak of Peter's Vision in Acts 10. Let's look at it. Beginning in verse 9

"The next day, as the soldiers were traveling and approaching the city, Peter went up to the rooftop to pray, at about the sixth hour. Now he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they were preparing something, he fell into a trance."

So, here we have Peter who is staying in Joppa as a guest to Simon the Tanner. While waiting for a meal to be prepared Peter is on the roof, while there it is understood he was praying and while doing so falls into a trance, and has a vision.

Let's continue with verse 11

"He saw the heavens opened, and something like a great sheet coming down, lowered by its four corners to the earth. In it were all sorts of four-footed animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
A voice came to him, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.' "

In Peter's Vision he sees a sheet lowered from the heavens with a multitude of unclean meats. A great voice, understood to be G-D tells Peter to "Kill and eat." Interesting, surely Peter would have immediately obeyed, right? Well, lets see in verse 14



"But Peter said, 'Certainly not, Lord! For never have I eaten anything unholy or unclean.'

Wait, what? Peter not only tells G-D no, but he doubles down and says shows himself approved by saying he has NEVER eaten what is "unholy or unclean". Let's see how G-D responds in verse 12


"Again a voice came to him, a second time: 'What God has made clean, you must not consider unholy.' "

Here we see G-D speaking about what he HAS(past tense) made clean. So, this verse can't be used to justify eating what is called unclean to ALL believers, not just Jews.

I'm sure Peter came to the same conclusion you did on his vision. I'm sure he even understood it right away. Well, why speculate, let's KEEP READING.
Verse 16

"This happened three times, and the sheet was immediately taken up to heaven. Now, while Peter was puzzled about what the vision he had seen might mean, behold, the men sent by Cornelius found Simon’s house and appeared before the gate."

Welp, so much for understanding the Vision right away. Peter had this Vision THREE times! And was still puzzled by it. Surely, if it were as simple as "all meat is now clean" Peter would have said so. If only Peter interpreted his vision for us...Oh wait, he did.

Verse 28, (Peter has gathered at the home of Cornelius the Centurion, a righteous man in the eyes of G-D.)

"He said to them, “You yourselves know that it is not permitted for a Jewish man to associate with a non-Jew or to visit him. Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean."

Peter interpreted his Vision for us. After being puzzled initially, Peter came to a single conclusion on what the Vision meant, that we are to "call no MAN uncommon or unclean". The vision was about People! Specifically Gentiles in regards to Talmudic Law(man-made law, not G-D's Law/i.e Man-Made Tradition) which dictated that a Jew is not to associate with Gentiles in private, as according to Talmudic Law Gentiles were unclean. But according to G-D, "whom (HE) has made clean(in Messiah), let no man call unclean"

This is what the meaning of Peter's Vision is according to Peter himself, which aligns perfectly with G-D's Law, The Torah.

And you are missing a deeper point!
Peter spoke while in the house of a Gentile.
That meant he accepted his hospitality - food and drink!!!!

So, when Peter says this, "Yet God has shown me that I should call no MAN unholy or unclean.", it also means, "and what he eats and drinks!" or even more pertinently, "because of what he eats or drinks!"

There is a reason why Orthodox Jews to this day will not enter a Gentile's house - it is not because they don't like them, it is because it would be impolite to refuse their hospitality, i.e. non-Kosher food!

 

[Depleted]

It is not a verse, it is 3 or 4 chapters (1 Cor 7/8/9/10) and if you read it carefully and think of it as a letter to the Corinthians, you'll see that Paul was addressing some queries about Idol worship in Corinth. It's like believers in Corinth were divided and some were being referred to as weak Christians and some considered themselves strong Christians. The queries were sent to Paul about eating meat sacrificed to Idols because apparently it was a concern especially to the weak Christians.

So Paul in His letters was majorly addressing meat sacrificed to idols- the kind of idols that could not listen or see (stones and wood carvings) and his message was just eat because they mean nothing - but he was categorical about food sacrificed to demons. these, he said could arouse God to anger.

I had Latin for three years, but the Romans stole the Greek gods and renamed them. Corinth had a god statue every where. They eve had one to an unknown god to cover their bets. But what I don;t know is why they were eating meant for those gods. Was it because they were still followers? Not good. Or was it just because there was more meant than then priest could handle. It seems to me it's up to you to find out, since this bothers you. but I have never had of evil gods.

 

[Depleted]

If you are going to present the argument that slaughtering Halal is a sacrifice then it's incumbent on YOU to do the research to prove your case not me.

I've already posted a link to a Halal certification site which seems to establish what I've said previously.

But from the opening post you've already made the assertion that it is a sacrifice and to idols:



So what was the point of the thread - if your mind is made up then follow it.

I know you think you have a big argument to make for whatever reason. (Seems like you like to argue.) But he has done the research and your telling him he has to prove it to you? In no world does he have to prove it to you.

 

[Depleted]

So eating is now a religious event?

From what I've seen from your other posts in the forum you seem to be a confused individual.

Naw, it's you that is confused.

 

[Locutus]

(Seems like you like to argue.)

 

[Noose]

So eating is now a religious event?

From what I've seen from your other posts in the forum you seem to be a confused individual.

Matt 26:26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.” 27Then He took the cup, gave thanks and gave it to them,saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

1 Cor 10:16Is not the cup of blessing that we bless a participation in the blood of Christ?And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one loaf, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one loaf.

Eating is worship when it is meant to be. And it's not normal to go through someones history/posts to try and figure out their mind.

 

[Noose]

The F.D.A is kinda already ensuring that everyone is provided with decent beef in the U.S.

Hmmm, I was reminded of those delicious choice cuts of meat.

The Spirit expressly states that in the acharit-hayamim some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods which God created to be eaten with thanksgiving by those who have come to trust and to know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing received with thanksgiving needs to be rejected, 5 because the word of God and prayer make it holy.

You almost forgot to attach Catholic (forbidding marriage) and SDA (require abstinence from certain foods) and that passage was referring to clean and unclean foods not foods sacrificed to idols.

 

[MarcR]

Despite what Paul says in 1 Cor 8/9, i think the warning is there from the same Paul in His conclusion here:

1 Cor 10:14Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

1Cor 10:14 is about participating knowingly in pagan worship, NOT ABOUT FOOD!

 

[Noose]

Noose why not let Paul answer the very thing you are talking about: 1 Cor. 10:23-31: "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth. Whatsoever is sold in the shambles [meat markets], that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

"But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."

Paul says it will not defile you, but if someone tells you it was idol meat: don't eat it for their sake. It couldn't be more simple. Go to the meat market and buy anything, it means nothing.

Paul’s conclusion (1 Cor 10:23) was on foods sacrificed to objects (idols) that mean nothing (worthless) because it seems he was addressing a specific question and he based his conclusion on:

Psalms 115: 4 But their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands. 5They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see. 6They have ears, but cannot hear, noses, but cannot smell. 7They have hands, but cannot feel, feet, but cannot walk, nor can they utter a sound with their throats. 8Those who make them will be like them, and so will all who trust in them.

Jeremiah 10:5
"Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field are they, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot walk! Do not fear them, For they can do no harm, Nor can they do any good."
That’s why Paul said “For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof”

BUT

Paul’s warning in 1 Cor 10:14-21 which as a side note (not the main issue to be addressed) stands and was based on:
Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.”

In case you forgot, essential means essential.

 

[Noose]

1Cor 10:14 is about participating knowingly in pagan worship, NOT ABOUT FOOD!

He was talking about meat sold in market not in some dungeon and he was also talking to Christians; people who actively attend pagan ceremonies can't be Christians of course.
Paul draws a correlation with communion; Christ or even the apostles took bread and gave thanks (worshiped) and shared amongst themselves. Paul is saying that those that share/eat the bread are partaking in the thanks giving (worship).
In the same way, meat is sacrificed to honor a foreign god (that’s worship) and then shared in the market, even those that partake in eating also partake in worship. But it all comes down to conscience, eat if you don’t know but if you know it is a sacrifice from pagans, don’t otherwise God is a jealousy God.

Do we know that halal is a sacrifice?

 

[MarcR]

In Jewish liturgy, Psalms 146-150 are called the Hallel because they begin with hallayloo yah Praise ye the Lord.

In Hebrew Hallal means literally shine; but in common usage it means praise or be worthy of praise.

I am not sure how the word is used in Arabic.

 

[Gabriel2020]

​meat in all places.