Modern Israel and Biblical Israel Not One and the Same

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

Mitspa

Guest
#21
Brothers and Sisters, Just a thought,

Isn't the real question, Is this restoration of Israel to Jerusalem?

Brother John
Hopefully in the end the restoration will be to Christ and the heavenly Jerusalem ...clearly God has a plan and clearly His Hand is on the modern day nation of Israel.
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#22
Ok does the teachings about Israel end here...or does the Word of God go on to teach us that we are to regard them as enemies of the gospel..(which is what we have here) but yet beloved for the fathers sake... I don't get it when people refuse to look at the whole counsel of God on a issue ?

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

This literal means they are still the elect people of God and God has not forgotten them...as is plainly explained in NT scripture
They are loved Mitspa and God's call is irrevocable. And they too may still receive God's mercy just as we have ... undeservedly thru faith in Jesus Christ. Do you believe that "all Israel will be saved" means that all of today's inhabitants of Israel are covered regardless of them being apostate or not ? What of those "elect" who lived these past 2,000 years ? Were they just forgotten because Israel wasn't yet reinstated as a nation ? Of course not. Every relationship with God is of a personal nature thru and with Jesus Christ. That's it. It starts and ends there, whether Jew or Gentile. You speak of Israel the nation. And yes ... God loves them dearly. But His love for all of mankind measures no less. This was and is the mystery of the gospel proclaimed ... neither Jew nor Gentile. God chose the Jews to reveal Himself to mankind thru His Word. And most today still stumble over the Chief cornerstone .. because they look thru the eyes of their flesh rather than thru the Spirit. God's Israel is not about a strip of land today or the people living on it. We look for the Jerusalem that is above.

Romans 11

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#23
Here's a very simple but important reminder to all of us to be more discerning.

https://benirwin.me/2014/07/11/evangelicals-equating-modern-israel-with-israel-of-the-bible/
Modern Israel is a Secular state. The only reason it exists is to fulfill the Prophecies of the last days. It is not for a blessing but for judgement. I believe that Jerusalem is Babylon the Great and will be the Capital of the Antichrists Empire
after he is accepted as the Messiah. Many OT passages call Jerusalem a Whore, In Revelation the woman riding the Beast is dressed in the same colours as the Priests and the fabrics used in the Tabernacle. She even wears a sign on her forehead which is a parody of that worn by the Chief Priest. Also the goods that the merchants are said to sell are the same as those Solomon used to build the Temple. All that together with Israels history of killing the prophets make Jerusalem a prime candidate. Only a remnant of the Jewish population will be saved. There is nothing Godly about modern Israel or Judaism which is mainly centered on the teachings of the Talmud not the Bible
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#24
I agree Israel should be held to account for its actions like any other democratic country and christians who feel it has some religious significance need to be careful they are not just falling of zionist propoganda.

Injustice is injustice. The problem is always the muslims want violence to justify their hatred and sense of conspiracy, and Israel wants to appear a victim so they can claim special need status.

There are enough videos of Israeli leaders waiting for the messiah to show himself and want to reinstitute the temple etc. which is more like setting of a religious bomb.

Ofcourse the problem is both sides of the battle are polarised on faith lines, with their own bias and assumptions, so it looks like there will never be a resolution just a running sore. Sadly the two big muslim players who have brought some peace in the past Egypt and Syria are now severely weakened, and insane Iran might get a bomb.

With the growth of dispensational theology, hyper grace denominations, maybe some insane christians will escalate the situation like the extreme muslims are trying to do, to bring prophecy about. I hope not, but unless we point out this insanity, the insane might begin to think it is they who know the truth and we who are the insane.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#25
I agree Israel should be held to account for its actions like any other democratic country and christians who feel it has some religious significance need to be careful they are not just falling of zionist propoganda.

Injustice is injustice. The problem is always the muslims want violence to justify their hatred and sense of conspiracy, and Israel wants to appear a victim so they can claim special need status.

There are enough videos of Israeli leaders waiting for the messiah to show himself and want to reinstitute the temple etc. which is more like setting of a religious bomb.

Ofcourse the problem is both sides of the battle are polarised on faith lines, with their own bias and assumptions, so it looks like there will never be a resolution just a running sore. Sadly the two big muslim players who have brought some peace in the past Egypt and Syria are now severely weakened, and insane Iran might get a bomb.

With the growth of dispensational theology, hyper grace denominations, maybe some insane christians will escalate the situation like the extreme muslims are trying to do, to bring prophecy about. I hope not, but unless we point out this insanity, the insane might begin to think it is they who know the truth and we who are the insane.
We tend to forget that God is in charge of the Nations nothing can happen unless he allows it and they rise or fall according to his will. Insane Christians steeped in Dispensatiolism are already on the loose and have been for some time.
 
Mar 23, 2014
702
4
0
#26
Folks, Israel was a person, not a place. I have tried to find an ancient map showing a place called “Israel” and came up empty handed. No such place existed prior to 1949AD

What I have found are biblical references to the Israelite tribe.

(Gen 41:57 KJV) And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands.

(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, Why do ye look one upon another?

(Gen 42:2 KJV) And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence;

(Gen 42:3 KJV) And Joseph's ten brethren went down to buy corn in Egypt.

(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

(Gen 42:6 KJV) And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land:

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV) They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

The Israelite's live in Egypt until Moses murders a man and for this Moses and the others flee

:)-
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#27
They are loved Mitspa and God's call is irrevocable. And they too may still receive God's mercy just as we have ... undeservedly thru faith in Jesus Christ. Do you believe that "all Israel will be saved" means that all of today's inhabitants of Israel are covered regardless of them being apostate or not ? What of those "elect" who lived these past 2,000 years ? Were they just forgotten because Israel wasn't yet reinstated as a nation ? Of course not. Every relationship with God is of a personal nature thru and with Jesus Christ. That's it. It starts and ends there, whether Jew or Gentile. You speak of Israel the nation. And yes ... God loves them dearly. But His love for all of mankind measures no less. This was and is the mystery of the gospel proclaimed ... neither Jew nor Gentile. God chose the Jews to reveal Himself to mankind thru His Word. And most today still stumble over the Chief cornerstone .. because they look thru the eyes of their flesh rather than thru the Spirit. God's Israel is not about a strip of land today or the people living on it. We look for the Jerusalem that is above.

Romans 11

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
I'm not sure of your question? God goes out of His way to remind His Church that His promises to Israel after the flesh are still valid and the election He has placed upon them is still valid...without repentance. What He does in the end and how He deals with each individual Jews is not made clear ...but we know they will confess Jesus Christ to be saved and they are still regarded by the Father as His chosen people because of the promises He made... The state of Israel is clearly a divine act of God almighty and anyone who comes against that state and those people will have to deal with the Lord.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#28
The Book of Joshua was written somewhere between 500-600 yrs. B.C. And it says this in chapter 21:45 ... Not one of all of the Lord's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled. Notice that this verse says ... "was fulfilled" ... not "will be fulfilled at a later date". Do the math ... or don't. Very many refuse to. And why ? It is because they fail to understand who the Israel of God truly is today. The bible (old testament) chronicles the history of national Israel but is essentially God's Word pertaining to spiritual Israel. No apostate people today can be called the chosen of God nor are they the Israel of God. We already know that only a remnant will be saved. Only believers in Jesus Christ make up the Israel of God, for there is today neither Greek nor Jew but only the bride of Christ ... one body, one church and one people.
Um. No. The Book of Joshua was written not longer after Moses' time. That would make it somewhere in the realms of 1400BC, not 600-500BC.
 
Mar 23, 2014
702
4
0
#29
We tend to forget that God is in charge of the Nations nothing can happen unless he allows it and they rise or fall according to his will.
We all have our own interpretation of “God” and I must say I disagree with your view of “God”. God does not “allow” or make some rise and others fall. He gave us free will and the ability to choose. Yes He gave us guidelines but what we do with them is our choice to make

Insane Christians steeped in Dispensatiolism are already on the loose and have been for some time.
Is that why Israeli’s spit on Christians in the streets of Jerusalem
Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them
read more: Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them - Haaretz - Israel News Haaretz.com
In a rare interview to the Israeli media just a month before he steps down from his current post, Pizzaballa cautioned Israelis over how Christians are treated here. "When you say 'Christianity' to the Israelis," he said, "they immediately think of the Holocaust and the [Spanish] Inquisition. People don't know that we are here and that we have roots [here]," adding that this attitude is reflected throughout Israeli society.
In a reference to the long-standing, continual incidents of Orthodox Jewish extremists in Jerusalem spitting at Christian clergy, Pizzaballa said: "When I came to the country, I was told that I should know that if I walk around with a frock in the city [of Jerusalem], people would spit on me, and I shouldn't be offended, it's normal."
read more: Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz
Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz

Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily
read more: Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily - Haaretz

Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem

:)-
 
Mar 23, 2014
702
4
0
#30
We tend to forget that God is in charge of the Nations nothing can happen unless he allows it and they rise or fall according to his will.
We all have our own interpretation of “God” and I must say I disagree with your view of “God”. God does not “allow” or make some rise and others fall. He gave us free will and the ability to choose. Yes He gave us guidelines but what we do with them is our choice to make

Insane Christians steeped in Dispensatiolism are already on the loose and have been for some time.
Is that why Israeli’s spit on Christians in the streets of Jerusalem
Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them
read more: Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them - Haaretz - Israel News Haaretz.com

In a rare interview to the Israeli media just a month before he steps down from his current post, Pizzaballa cautioned Israelis over how Christians are treated here. "When you say 'Christianity' to the Israelis," he said, "they immediately think of the Holocaust and the [Spanish] Inquisition. People don't know that we are here and that we have roots [here]," adding that this attitude is reflected throughout Israeli society.

In a reference to the long-standing, continual incidents of Orthodox Jewish extremists in Jerusalem spitting at Christian clergy, Pizzaballa said: "When I came to the country, I was told that I should know that if I walk around with a frock in the city [of Jerusalem], people would spit on me, and I shouldn't be offended, it's normal."
read more: Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz

Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz


Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily
read more: Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily - Haaretz

Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem

:)-
 
Mar 23, 2014
702
4
0
#31
Moderators-- another double post. Please delete one.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#32
We all have our own interpretation of “God” and I must say I disagree with your view of “God”. God does not “allow” or make some rise and others fall. He gave us free will and the ability to choose. Yes He gave us guidelines but what we do with them is our choice to make



Is that why Israeli’s spit on Christians in the streets of Jerusalem
Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them
read more: Christians in Jerusalem Want Jews to Stop Spitting on Them - Haaretz - Israel News Haaretz.com
In a rare interview to the Israeli media just a month before he steps down from his current post, Pizzaballa cautioned Israelis over how Christians are treated here. "When you say 'Christianity' to the Israelis," he said, "they immediately think of the Holocaust and the [Spanish] Inquisition. People don't know that we are here and that we have roots [here]," adding that this attitude is reflected throughout Israeli society.
In a reference to the long-standing, continual incidents of Orthodox Jewish extremists in Jerusalem spitting at Christian clergy, Pizzaballa said: "When I came to the country, I was told that I should know that if I walk around with a frock in the city [of Jerusalem], people would spit on me, and I shouldn't be offended, it's normal."
read more: Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz
Senior Catholic Cleric: 'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others' - Haaretz

Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily
read more: Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily - Haaretz

Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem

:)-
The Bible shows that God is in control of nations. He used Assyria and Babylon to judge Israel and he will use the Beast Kingdoms for the same purpose.

I wonder if any of the Israelies that spit on Christians are recent immigrants from western countries. I stand by my statement regarding some Christians. If you read up on the history of modern Israel you will find that Dispensationalist Christians were behind its creation long before 1948. The move to create a national home for the Jews started towards the end of the 19th century. It is Christian Zionists in powerful positions that finance Israel today, and it is leading crackpot evangelists that support it. Its ironic that all the while Israels government takes the money and laughs behind their backs while Christians are spat on in Israels streets.
 
Last edited:
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#33
Um. No. The Book of Joshua was written not longer after Moses' time. That would make it somewhere in the realms of 1400BC, not 600-500BC.
Could very well be :). Some suggest it was written much later than this, not that it makes any difference. I willingly stand corrected :).
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#34
I'm not sure of your question? God goes out of His way to remind His Church that His promises to Israel after the flesh are still valid and the election He has placed upon them is still valid...without repentance. What He does in the end and how He deals with each individual Jews is not made clear ...but we know they will confess Jesus Christ to be saved and they are still regarded by the Father as His chosen people because of the promises He made... The state of Israel is clearly a divine act of God almighty and anyone who comes against that state and those people will have to deal with the Lord.
It's not my desire to be contentious. I will only say that they need Jesus .. as we all do. Being God's chosen or elected people seems to me a mute point if one hasn't personally received Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. And I see a great danger in some evangelicals today proclaiming them as God's chosen people knowing that the majority of them are apostate. The collective of the nation of Israel is made up of individuals ... real people like you and I that remain lost in the absence of knowing Christ. If we love them, we'll tell them of Christ's redeeming work on ours and their behalf where their is now neither Jew nor Gentile. I'll leave it here. Be blessed :).
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
113
#35
Modern Israel is a Secular state. The only reason it exists is to fulfill the Prophecies of the last days. It is not for a blessing but for judgement. I believe that Jerusalem is Babylon the Great and will be the Capital of the Antichrists Empire after he is accepted as the Messiah...
Sir, I perceive you read the Scriptures with seeing eyes, mind and spirit and not blindly! :cool:
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#36


Could very well be :). Some suggest it was written much later than this, not that it makes any difference. I willingly stand corrected :).
No worries. I will say this though - those who suggest a writing period of 600-500BC are liberal biblical scholars and theologians who shouldn't be trusted because they try to discredit the divine revelation of the Bible. They think everything was written either just before the exile or during the exile period. Which is lame.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#37
It's not my desire to be contentious. I will only say that they need Jesus .. as we all do. Being God's chosen or elected people seems to me a mute point if one hasn't personally received Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. And I see a great danger in some evangelicals today proclaiming them as God's chosen people knowing that the majority of them are apostate. The collective of the nation of Israel is made up of individuals ... real people like you and I that remain lost in the absence of knowing Christ. If we love them, we'll tell them of Christ's redeeming work on ours and their behalf where their is now neither Jew nor Gentile. I'll leave it here. Be blessed :).
Well Paul did not warn us against boasting against the branches for no reason ...and I don't see how anyone could read the New Testament and not see the very special place the Hebrew tribes retain in the eyes of God... Even if you read and believe the book of Revelation ..these tribes retain a very important place in the end ... How could they be reformed into what that book suggest unless God reestablished the nation of Israel? To me its not even questionable that Gods eyes are still upon that nation and His Hand is against her enemies.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#38
We all have our own interpretation of “God” and I must say I disagree with your view of “God”.
God does not “allow” or make some rise and others fall. He gave us free will and the ability to choose.
Yes He gave us guidelines but what we do with them is our choice to make
See that is a problem, we should let [the bible interpret the bible], not what we think.
some verses from the bible about that the most high God rules in the kingdom of men,
and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

-
Lamentations 2:17 (KJV)
The Lord hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he
had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied:

and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee,
he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.

1 Samuel 2:10 (KJV)
The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder
upon them: the Lord shall judge the ends of the earth;
and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

-

37Thou, O king, (art a king of kings): for the God of heaven
hath given thee (a kingdom), power, and strength, and glory.

38And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of
the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made (thee ruler over them all).

Thou(Nebuchadnezzar) art this head(ruler) of gold (Babylonian_Empire)

1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages,
that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.

27Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off
thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor;
if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

- he was warned to rule with Gods counsel, repent, do good and show mercy.

29At the end of (twelve months) he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.

30The king spake, and said, Is not this (great Babylon),
that (I) have built for the house of the kingdom by
the might of (my) power, and for the honour of (my) majesty?

31While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying,
O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; (The kingdom is departed from thee).

- his kingdom temporaly taken away, and was untill (till thou know) that God rulled.

22It is (thou, O king), that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown,
and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

21Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much,

14He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves,
and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:

15Nevertheless (leave) the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass,
in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, a
nd let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:


16Let (his heart) be changed from man's, and let a (beast's heart) be given unto him;
and let (seven times) pass over him.

25That they shall drive (thee) from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of
the field, (till thou know) that the (most High ruleth) in (the kingdom of men),and
(giveth it to whomsoever he will).

34And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven,
and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High,
and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever

36At the same time (my reason returned) unto me; and for the glory of (my kingdom).
mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought
unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added ...

37Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven,

-
18 O thou king, the most high God gave [Nebuchadnezzar] thy father a kingdom,
and majesty, and glory, and honour:

20But when [his heart] was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride,
he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him:

21And he was driven from the sons of men; and (his heart) was made like the beasts,
and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen,
and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; (till he knew) that the most high God ruled
in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.

22And thou his son, O Belshazzar,hast not humbled thine heart,
though thou (knewest all this);

23But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels
of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk
wine in them;..

24Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.
25And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

26This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE;
God hath numbered thy kingdom, (and finished it).
27TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.

28PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and (given) to (the Medes and Persians).
31And (Darius) (the Median) took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#39
See that is a problem, we should let [the bible interpret the bible], not what we think.
some verses from the bible about that the most high God rules in the kingdom of men,
and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.
Amen, Scripture is self interpreting.

Christ is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleasures .In the end of the matter Its is God who makes our hearts soft.

God interpreters the old name he previously called his church a Jew (inward born again of the Spirit) . or the name Israel in respect to that not seen. This was before he gave her His one bride the new name that he called us in Acts (Christian) It has nothing to do with the outward flesh of a Jew or a gentile . Never did never will.

In Adam all die.. As new creatures in Christ we know no man after the flesh and even though some did know Christ in respect to the that one time temporal demonstration, of the work of the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world , the six days God did work. We know not the Spirit of Christ anymore forever more in that way.

One bride made up of many lively stones do make up the bride of Christ his church, the spiritual house of God. The idea of two brides, two gospels in respect to one husband, Christ, simply could never work out, unless we make Christ a forinficator (two wives)
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#40
Wow. That's brutal. Both sides have done horrible things to each other. But in terms of who the true descendants of the Israelites are in all of this, I'd say the Palestinians (or at least some of them) are it.
Sorry Tintin, can't go there, but I would like to know how you got there. But why this 'get' at Israel?, I understand why anyone should feel for the Palestinians, but why the anti Israeli sentiment? Do you feel the Jews are not part of God's plan any more?