Monotheism

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jaybird88

Guest
#21
I guess you don't understand my example. Let me try another...

Indians worshiped the sun, animals, and dead ancestors, even though they are not gods. They worshipped creation instead of the Creator- but that doesn't make them gods, but false gods. (Romans 1:25)
i understand what you saying but what your saying does not add up.
the command does not say dont make up your own gods, it says dont worship other gods.
i dont think the Most High would have an assembly with make believe non existent beings.

i thik its strange so many skip over these first 2 commandments by telling themselves the commands are not for me because other gods dont exist.
the egyptians worshiped gods, if they were non existent, where did the power come from when the egyptian priests turned their staffs to snakes.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#22
But people BELIEVED they existed. Hence the command.
would you BELIEVE in something that you know does not exist??
the Egyptians were the most advanced, sophisticated, intellectual empire of its day, they built the pyramids thet we can not duplicate to this day. hard to accept they would BELIEVE in something that did not exist, this would make them look like simple minded fools. the might of their empire would suggest they were far from that.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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#23
jaybird,

I am amazed that you don't get that people, nations, create their own gods and worship them
as if they were REAL, which of course, they are NOT, but our Father knows their hearts have
rejected Him and that they have 'created other false-gods' in their own minds to 'replace' Him,
because they have rejected Him and His Holy ways...it is quite simple, surely by now you
understand human nature, especially when AAron constructed the 'golden calf' and they
worshipped it as a 'god' in their pathetic minds, under the influence of satan, because they
refused to OBEY and WAIT upon their Holy Father...

this has always been the way of this 'fallen-world', satan trying to usurp our Holy Father
with false/imitation/pretend/gods...
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#24
jaybird,

I am amazed that you don't get that people, nations, create their own gods and worship them
as if they were REAL, which of course, they are NOT, but our Father knows their hearts have
rejected Him and that they have 'created other false-gods' in their own minds to 'replace' Him,
because they have rejected Him and His Holy ways...it is quite simple, surely by now you
understand human nature, especially when AAron constructed the 'golden calf' and they
worshipped it as a 'god' in their pathetic minds, under the influence of satan, because they
refused to OBEY and WAIT upon their Holy Father...

this has always been the way of this 'fallen-world', satan trying to usurp our Holy Father
with false/imitation/pretend/gods...
it has to do with all the scriptures i have posted and the questions i have presented that no one seems to be able to answer.

Aaron must have been very simple minded when creating that calf, who was this foolish guy, he witnessed the Most High rain manna down from the heavens, parting of the red sea, the Egyptians destroyed in the sea, water from the rock, all the plagues on egypt, the dark power of the egypt priest, and the Almighty used Aarons own staff and transformed it into a snake in front of pharaoh and the dark priest, yes it sounds as if Aaron had very little experience with the Almighty so it would only make sense that he would go out and make an idol to a god that didnt exist in the first place.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#25
so why does the bible mention other gods when their are none? why are we commands to have no other gods before the Most High if there are no other gods to have before Him?
I've read that the original ancient Hebrew would be better translated as "You shall have no other gods in my Presence."
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#26
I guess you don't understand my example. Let me try another...

Indians worshiped the sun, animals, and dead ancestors, even though they are not gods. They worshipped creation instead of the Creator- but that doesn't make them gods, but false gods. (Romans 1:25)
And now Hinduism is a ripe, old mess with upwards of 330 million gods and goddesses.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#27
The 10 plagues of Egypt were in effect God giving the Egyptian gods and goddesses the middle finger. He showed the Egyptian people that their gods were powerless against Him and that He was the one, true God. Remember, people believe all kinds of nonsense, doesn't make it true. You have to think about the context of the Mosaic Law. The 10 Commandments were given for God's people, Israel. The Israelites had just come out of Egypt, where they had been slaves for a couple hundred years (before that they were free people living in Egypt). They were surrounded by Egyptian gods and goddesses day and night and over the years they had come to worship them. Because God's people forgot Him, He had to retrain them to be obedient to Him and only Him and to worship Him alone. That's why "you shall have no other gods before me" is mentioned.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#28
The 10 plagues of Egypt were in effect God giving the Egyptian gods and goddesses the middle finger. He showed the Egyptian people that their gods were powerless against Him and that He was the one, true God. Remember, people believe all kinds of nonsense, doesn't make it true. You have to think about the context of the Mosaic Law. The 10 Commandments were given for God's people, Israel. The Israelites had just come out of Egypt, where they had been slaves for a couple hundred years (before that they were free people living in Egypt). They were surrounded by Egyptian gods and goddesses day and night and over the years they had come to worship them. Because God's people forgot Him, He had to retrain them to be obedient to Him and only Him and to worship Him alone. That's why "you shall have no other gods before me" is mentioned.
you ever think it strange the the descendants of Noah would live among those that were involved in such things as dark arts and multi god worship.
also according to Egyption history, in pre dynastic egypt they were monotheist, it was not until years later (Moses time)they became polytheistic.
were are commanded to to worship other gods, the Egyptians worshiped other gods.
we are commanded not to make images of the heavens, the pyramids, their proximity to the nile, and other structures in egypt were built to copy the heavens.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#29
you ever think it strange the the descendants of Noah would live among those that were involved in such things as dark arts and multi god worship.
also according to Egyption history, in pre dynastic egypt they were monotheist, it was not until years later (Moses time)they became polytheistic.
were are commanded to to worship other gods, the Egyptians worshiped other gods.
we are commanded not to make images of the heavens, the pyramids, their proximity to the nile, and other structures in egypt were built to copy the heavens.
We're all descendants of Noah (by way of his sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth). Jacob and his people lived amongst the Egyptian people, but they had their own land. So likely they had the perks of being an Egyptian citizen without having to get involved in the anti-God parts of Egyptian culture. I honestly don't know much about pre-dynastic Egypt, but that wouldn't surprise me. All people worshipped the one, true God in the early post-Flood days, but then they turned from Him and created a name for themselves by building a city and a tower at Babel. Since Mizraim (Egypt) was a grandson of Noah, it's quite possible that he worshipped God, but it's more likely that he set himself up as the one god of Egypt at that time. As for Egypt becoming polytheistic only around the time of Moses, I don't see it. There's evidence for Egypt being polytheistic for the vast majority of its history.
 

Daniel_I

Junior Member
Feb 18, 2016
19
0
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#30
I think what I see here is the very real fact that we are talking in 2016 understanding to a question that is asking about BC understanding and scripture's application. The question is what is monotheism? This is a good question. Monotheism speaks to two things, the oneness of God and/or the belief in only one God. It doesn't address the reality of there being one god or any criterion for an ultimate determination to the truth of God; only the belief in one god.

I see others have spent time addressing the belief in one God by establishing the criterion for determining the truth and reality but not so much addressing what the word means in accordance to scripture. Let's step back in time as best as we can to Moses. The question Moses asks will shed light on exactly what you are asking.

Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

This question, supports the notion that the Israelite in Egypt believed in multiple gods. Moses was educated but yet wanted a way to distinguish God to the Israelite by asking for a name.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

It would be quite silly for us to jump to the modern understanding and say the biblical use of gods referred to ONLY handcrafted idols. The Israelite at that time, did not believe in only one god, this is a very polytheistic environment. They were essentially accustomed to the pantheon idea in Egypt and in the surrounding regions. They were also accustomed to displays which showed one god superior to another. This wasn't always the case and was an interesting phenomenon for Moses.

Let's now step back as best we can to Abraham 400+ more years. At this time we can see that the Egyptian at that time knew God and didn't need distinctions based on the interactions between Abram and Pharaoh. We can infer that there was an understanding of monotheism in Egypt before the polytheism. Canaan was probably accustomed to polytheism since we can see Laban's daughters already dealing with idols.

Staying with Egypt if we fast forward just a bit. When Joseph entered Egypt this monotheism idea didn't seem foreign to them also, in fact in speaking to Potiphars wife he says,
Genesis 39:9 "There is no one greater in this house than I, and he has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do this great evil, and sin against God?" (Gen 39:9 NAS) Again, no distinction was needed.

Something happened between the time of Joseph (before slavery) to the time Moses was in Egypt that brought forth an idea or maybe a reality of multiple inferior gods similar to Canaan which we ought to treat as real, even if the idea is ludicrous to us now, it was real to them then.

God even recognizes this state of affairs as you pointed out. We see this strongly in his final plague. Exodus 12:12 'For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments-- I am the LORD. (Exo 12:12 NAS)

This issue was enough for God to cut it out with the very first commandment. Do not bring these inferior beings into my presence or set them before me, or fear them over me is essentially what that verse communicates. Yes, we see idolatry with the graven images becoming more frequent and that is addressed in the second commandment.

God goes through feat after feat establishing his supremacy and legitimacy as the only worthy of the title of God, we describe these as the attributes of God. Unlike the other gods which were fragmented and competing, ever changing and constantly shown up, God expressed in 3 persons of the trinity was of one accord.

We could speculate as to what these other gods are, some scholars propose fallen angels or demons, some go as far as satan. In our day and time, I suppose it means less since we can verify the truth that there is only one God.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
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Australia
#31
would you BELIEVE in something that you know does not exist??
the Egyptians were the most advanced, sophisticated, intellectual empire of its day, they built the pyramids thet we can not duplicate to this day. hard to accept they would BELIEVE in something that did not exist, this would make them look like simple minded fools. the might of their empire would suggest they were far from that.
Intelligent but spiritually blind for having false Gods.

I really think you are overcomplicating something that is really simple.
Scripture clearly states that the One, True Living God made all things and is eternal, there is no other Gods, none above Him, beside Him or below Him.
Don't even really know why I should be explaining this.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#32
This is going to sound like a dumb topic but it wouldn't be the first time from me.

so what exactly is monotheism?


I was taught its the belief in one G-D and any other is non existent, but the bible mentions other gods so whats going on?


Would it be more correct to say the monotheism of our faith is the worship of one All High and any other gods that may be out there are lesser / lower and we have nothing to do with them?
I understand your question. Why we say there is one God, when there are many beings that are more powerful than us and even Bible calls them "gods" sometimes.

I personally think that monotheism means - "there is only one true, non-created God".

Other "gods" are inventions or created beings (demons, fallen angels etc).

We Christians keep the faith in one Creator of all, there is no other eternal, independent and unlimited god.

In polytheism there are more eternal/independent gods, for example in hinduism they have three equal gods - Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#33
I think you ask good questions jay.

We know that the devil can make himself appear as "an angel of light".
My theory is that some of these other 'gods' are demons, who have tricked people into believing they are God(s),
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#34
Intelligent but spiritually blind for having false Gods.

I really think you are overcomplicating something that is really simple.
Scripture clearly states that the One, True Living God made all things and is eternal, there is no other Gods, none above Him, beside Him or below Him.
Don't even really know why I should be explaining this.
i believe there is one and only one G-D. i beleve there are many gods because i believe the bible says there are. the gods are not creators. they would be lesser gods.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#35
I think you ask good questions jay.

We know that the devil can make himself appear as "an angel of light".
My theory is that some of these other 'gods' are demons, who have tricked people into believing they are God(s),
i watched a good presentation a while back, chuck missler i think, he did a good job explaining the difference between angels / fallen angels and demons. i dont tink they are the same. i dont think a demon can take a physical form.
 

Daniel_I

Junior Member
Feb 18, 2016
19
0
1
#36
i believe there is one and only one G-D. i beleve there are many gods because i believe the bible says there are. the gods are not creators. they would be lesser gods.
Jaybird88, I don't know if you had a chance to read but my answer above was meant to speak to this understanding. I hope you get a chance to read and comment.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#37
i understand what you saying but what your saying does not add up.
the command does not say dont make up your own gods, it says dont worship other gods.
i dont think the Most High would have an assembly with make believe non existent beings.

i thik its strange so many skip over these first 2 commandments by telling themselves the commands are not for me because other gods dont exist.
the egyptians worshiped gods, if they were non existent, where did the PowerPC come from when the egyptian priests turned their staffs to snakes.
There are only two sources of supernatural power- God and Satan. As in the case of Job, God is in control of what He allows Satan to do or not do. Does God allow Satan to help people who practice magic arts, or do they just use illusions and trickery? I do not know if He did in the Old Testament, but I know He don't in the new. But I do know this- there is only one God Who consists of the Father, Son, and Holt Spirit- they are one in mind and purpose.
 
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eph610

Guest
#38
There are only two sources of supernatural power- God and Satan. As in the case of Job, God is in control of what He allows Satan to do or not do. Does God allow Satan to help people who practice magic arts, or do they just use illusions and trickery? I do not know if He did in the Old Testament, but I know He don't in the new. But I do know this- there is only one God Who consists of the Father, Son, and Holt Spirit- they are one in mind and purpose.
Satan only has power, not authority....Satan greatest weapon against the believer is deception....he is not at all equal in supernatural power with God....Satan cannot create, Satan is not all knowing and Satan is not everywhere at once....
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#39
This is going to sound like a dumb topic but it wouldn't be the first time from me.

so what exactly is monotheism?


I was taught its the belief in one G-D and any other is non existent, but the bible mentions other gods so whats going on?


Would it be more correct to say the monotheism of our faith is the worship of one All High and any other gods that may be out there are lesser / lower and we have nothing to do with them?
I have a tendency to believe you are correct. They were not gods, but they tried to be gods. And satans 5 "I wills" seem to validate this......I will be LIKE the most high.

Those Greek gods of myth..............satan probably tried something like that. Genesis 6 being a plausible place for satan to have literally tried this. And we have many scriptures not to worship angels, So satan probably tried something..........LITERALLY.
 
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Karraster

Guest
#40
Good topic Jaybird88. I agree with you that Almighty YHVH is the one true God and according to the Bible there are subordinate gods, (little g). They are real and not a figment of man's imagination and we are warned not to worship them.


Dr. Heiser has many teachings on this subject, and gets into the Hebrew words, proves his points from scripture. Very enlightening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-O5QfT6N1s