Mormons / Latter Day Saints

[CAH2]

5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.
7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.
8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.
9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.
10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.
11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

Is the principle in this scripture true?

If you said "yes" you may be surprised that this excerpt was provided from Moroni chapter 7 out of the Book of Mormon. It is my belief that he who does good with "real intent" has been influenced by Jesus Christ, for all good flows from him. Whether it be myself, you, or someone else who gives from the bottom of his heart, it is inspired of Jesus Christ. We may disagree as to the specifics of the Trinity which has been a main topic of discussion, and other points of gospel doctrine, but I think we can agree that good is good. As for judging whether others will go to heaven or hell I do not believe it is my place. I will leave it to Jesus. However, I wanted to provide a thought. I have not found scripture to back it up yet. Will Jesus not judge us according to our knowledge? If we have accepted Jesus and follow his commandments will we not be saved accordingly? If we have accepted Jesus and not kept his commandments, won't we be punished accordingly? But what about others??? If we have not learned of Jesus, or have little knowledge of him, won't we be judged according to that which we know and follow? If it were any other way wouldn't it be unjust? And if unjust, than it could not be of God as he is He who provides perfect justice. Therefore, let us not judge one another, but seek Christ to the best of our abilities and allow him to enlighten us as He will. Part of that enlightenment comes from these types of discussions that we have on this website. Although we may differ in our beliefs, I do believe in Christ, and that only through him may overcome sin and be saved.

I am a Mormon. CAH2

 

[Willie-T]

Run don't walk but run away from it.

Why? Jesus wouldn't have. We have got to quit treating non-Christians as the Boogie Man. Shucks, we even do that to people who we think read the wrong Bible........ or read the "right" one differently than we do.

 

[Miri]

5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.
7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.
8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.
9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.
10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.
11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

Is the principle in this scripture true?

If you said "yes" you may be surprised that this excerpt was provided from Moroni chapter 7 out of the Book of Mormon. It is my belief that he who does good with "real intent" has been influenced by Jesus Christ, for all good flows from him. Whether it be myself, you, or someone else who gives from the bottom of his heart, it is inspired of Jesus Christ. We may disagree as to the specifics of the Trinity which has been a main topic of discussion, and other points of gospel doctrine, but I think we can agree that good is good. As for judging whether others will go to heaven or hell I do not believe it is my place. I will leave it to Jesus. However, I wanted to provide a thought. I have not found scripture to back it up yet. Will Jesus not judge us according to our knowledge? If we have accepted Jesus and follow his commandments will we not be saved accordingly? If we have accepted Jesus and not kept his commandments, won't we be punished accordingly? But what about others??? If we have not learned of Jesus, or have little knowledge of him, won't we be judged according to that which we know and follow? If it were any other way wouldn't it be unjust? And if unjust, than it could not be of God as he is He who provides perfect justice. Therefore, let us not judge one another, but seek Christ to the best of our abilities and allow him to enlighten us as He will. Part of that enlightenment comes from these types of discussions that we have on this website. Although we may differ in our beliefs, I do believe in Christ, and that only through him may overcome sin and be saved.

I am a Mormon. CAH2

I think i prefer the Holy Spirit inspired word of God, rather than the man thought
out Mormon bible. By the way I disagree with what you posted. Even the bible
recognises that sinful people can be generous and give good gifts.

Oh and righteousness is not really about what you give, I will give you a clue it's
about what you receive.



Matthew 7:7-11 NKJV
[7] "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it
will be opened to you. [8] For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks
finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. [9] Or what man is there
among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
[10] Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? [11] If you then,
being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more
will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

 

[tourist]

The Mormons I've met were lovely people but spiritually confused. That's probably the mainstay.

From my observations you have just described a majority of the Christians, myself included at times.

 

[Nehemiah6]

From my observations you have just described a majority of the Christians, myself included at times.

That may be so, but Mormon doctrine is not Bible doctrine. And that's the real issue. We often forget that the people who are within certain religious systems are themselves wonderful, fine, upstanding, moral citizens, etc. But we should always examine their theology and whether or not it is solidly rooted in Scripture.

 

[garee]

Is the principle in this scripture true?

The principle that proves it is scripture must first be proven. Rightly dividing it according to the one author who wrote it is a must. God is no longer bringing any new revelations for over two thousand years.

If you said "yes" you may be surprised that this excerpt was provided from Moroni chapter 7 out of the Book of Mormon. It is my belief that he who does good with "real intent" has been influenced by Jesus Christ, for all good flows from him. Whether it be myself, you, or someone else who gives from the bottom of his heart, it is inspired of Jesus Christ. We may disagree as to the specifics of the Trinity which has been a main topic of discussion, and other points of gospel doctrine, but I think we can agree that good is good. As for judging whether others will go to heaven or hell I do not believe it is my place. I will leave it to Jesus. However, I wanted to provide a thought. I have not found scripture to back it up yet. Will Jesus not judge us according to our knowledge? If we have accepted Jesus and follow his commandments will we not be saved accordingly? If we have accepted Jesus and not kept his commandments, won't we be punished accordingly? But what about others??? If we have not learned of Jesus, or have little knowledge of him, won't we be judged according to that which we know and follow? If it were any other way wouldn't it be unjust? And if unjust, than it could not be of God as he is He who provides perfect justice. Therefore, let us not judge one another, but seek Christ to the best of our abilities and allow him to enlighten us as He will. Part of that enlightenment comes from these types of discussions that we have on this website. Although we may differ in our beliefs, I do believe in Christ, and that only through him may overcome sin and be saved.

I am a Mormon. CAH2

Two things …One God has not brought one new revelation since he sealed up the book of prophecy warning that those who do say …thus sayeth the Lord, here is Christ … believe not.

Two, do we need a man to teach us or is that the methodology of the antichrists that we are warned of?

Moromons insist we do need a man to teach just as does the Jehovah Witnesses or Catholicisim .What does that inform you of?

Do the things of men offend those of God?

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man (to include Mr. Smith of the Mormons or Charles Russell of the Jehovah Witnesses or another Mohamed of ISIS all claiming to receive new revelations ) shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev 22:18

Who is the next new prophet that will add to the word of God?

 

[CAH2]

The principle that proves it is scripture must first be proven. Rightly dividing it according to the one author who wrote it is a must. God is no longer bringing any new revelations for over two thousand years.


Two things …One God has not brought one new revelation since he sealed up the book of prophecy warning that those who do say …thus sayeth the Lord, here is Christ … believe not.

Two, do we need a man to teach us or is that the methodology of the antichrists that we are warned of?

Moromons insist we do need a man to teach just as does the Jehovah Witnesses or Catholicisim .What does that inform you of?

Do the things of men offend those of God?

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man (to include Mr. Smith of the Mormons or Charles Russell of the Jehovah Witnesses or another Mohamed of ISIS all claiming to receive new revelations ) shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev 22:18

Who is the next new prophet that will add to the word of God?

I appreciate your response and it helps me contemplate about additional revelations being provided by God and whether or not God needs man to "teach us." I found an interesting talk by another Mormon, Howard W. Hunter (HWH), of which I'll post a link, about Rev. 22:18. I have not researched enough about it myself but is thought provoking. In short, HWH explains that at one time all of the books of the Bible were not joined in a book called the "Bible" but were individual writings. He mentions how the book of Revelations was actually written after other books from the new testament and how the book of Revelations had been chosen to finish the Bible when all of these writing were compiled. Further, their are similar scriptures that were written in early books of the Old Testament such as Deut. 4:2. If John had written this scripture in revelations before other scriptures in the Bible, why were the other books added? If Deut. 4:2 states basically the same as John's scripture in Revelations, why was more written?

Your second point was that God does not need a man to "teach us." I agree with you as God is all powerful. However, God has chosen men to teach us. Adam was instructed by God, who taught his children of God. Moses was chosen by God who then instructed his people of God's way.... The apostles were taught by Jesus and when he was gone they continued preaching to the people. I imagine you have some form of spiritual leader who helps you better understand your own beliefs. I simply believe that God chooses individuals to be spiritual leaders called to teach us God's word.

 

[CAH2]

The principle that proves it is scripture must first be proven. Rightly dividing it according to the one author who wrote it is a must. God is no longer bringing any new revelations for over two thousand years.


Two things …One God has not brought one new revelation since he sealed up the book of prophecy warning that those who do say …thus sayeth the Lord, here is Christ … believe not.

Two, do we need a man to teach us or is that the methodology of the antichrists that we are warned of?

Moromons insist we do need a man to teach just as does the Jehovah Witnesses or Catholicisim .What does that inform you of?

Do the things of men offend those of God?

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man (to include Mr. Smith of the Mormons or Charles Russell of the Jehovah Witnesses or another Mohamed of ISIS all claiming to receive new revelations ) shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev 22:18

Who is the next new prophet that will add to the word of God?

I forgot to add the link to HWH's talk.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1981/04/no-man-shall-add-to-or-take-away?lang=eng

 

[Nehemiah6]

CAH2,

What is shown in your post has some merit, but also some defects. So we need to separate the chaff from the wheat on the basis of what is in the Holy Bible

5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.

This is not exactly what Jesus said. Yes, by their works (or their fruits) ye shall know them, but "then they are good also" implies that it is good works which make men righteous, rather than the reverse, which is that those who are righteous (justified) in Christ produce good works. So there is a subtle difference.

6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.

This too is close to the truth, but the Bible says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin, so "real faith" rather than "real intent" would be more appropriate.

7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.

This confirms what I said above, since Scripture says "Abraham believed God [real faith] and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God. 9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such. 10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.

Again, there is a subtle shift from Bible truth over here. God deems sinners as "evil" for their evil deeds. If an evil man brings an offering to God with a wrong motive, or prays to God, he is already evil in the sight of God, regardless of this particular instance.

11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.

This is undoubtedly true.

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

This is not exactly what the Bible says. In fact Christ said that even evil men give good gifts to their children. Furthermore, the Bible says that all men have a conscience, and if they act according to the dictates of their conscience, they will be following the Law (the Ten Commandments). However, only that which is produced by the Holy Spirit within a regenerated person comes from God.

14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil. 15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

This principle is indeed true, but "perfect knowledge" will only be found in the regenerated person who goes by what is in Scripture. Therefore while the unsaved can indeed distinguish between good and evil, they can only have perfect knowledge when they are in Christ.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil;...

Now here we have FALSE DOCTRINE. Had this verse said "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man who repents and believes on Him" that would have been perfectly in accord with Scripture (Acts 2:38).

... wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. 17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him

This is quite correct.

So to sum up, since there is a mixture of truth and error in the Book of Mormon, we cannot receive it as Divinely inspired Scripture, since Scripture cannot contradict or bypass Scripture.

 

[CAH2]

I think i prefer the Holy Spirit inspired word of God, rather than the man thought
out Mormon bible. By the way I disagree with what you posted. Even the bible
recognises that sinful people can be generous and give good gifts.

Oh and righteousness is not really about what you give, I will give you a clue it's
about what you receive.



Matthew 7:7-11 NKJV
[7] "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it
will be opened to you. [8] For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks
finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. [9] Or what man is there
among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
[10] Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? [11] If you then,
being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more
will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

Thanks for you response. You mentioned that you prefer the Holy Spirit inspired word of God. I believe the Holy Ghost teaches truth. And, truth is truth whether it comes from the Book of Mormon, Bible, Quran, etc.... For example, do we breath oxygen. This is truth whether I say it you, you say it, or someone else. On the other hand, God exists. We can agree on that much. Therefore, no matter what book it comes from, it is the truth. The scripture I provided was that all good comes from Christ. All evil comes from Satan. So whether I give as a Mormon with real intent to do good or whether you do or anyone else, is it not of God?

As for sinful people giving good gifts, is it not also true that we are all sinners. Therefore, just because we are sinners, does not mean that we cannot be influenced by God to do good things.

Your last statement "Oh and righteousness is not really about what you give, I will give you a clue it's
about what you receive." I am not sure what you mean by this but, in my personal opinion, righteousness is all about giving. We are to try and emulate Jesus Christ with all our being, to the best of our abilities. This is part of righteousness. And Jesus Christ lived solely to give. He gave of himself every minute of every day, helping the poor, the sick, the spiritually depraved, and ultimately he gave his life. We ought to give the same, to the best of our abilities, which might not be temporal things as we might not have temporal things, but we can give away that which we can, again to the best of our abilities.

 

[bluto]

Thanks for you response. You mentioned that you prefer the Holy Spirit inspired word of God. I believe the Holy Ghost teaches truth. And, truth is truth whether it comes from the Book of Mormon, Bible, Quran, etc.... For example, do we breath oxygen. This is truth whether I say it you, you say it, or someone else. On the other hand, God exists. We can agree on that much. Therefore, no matter what book it comes from, it is the truth. The scripture I provided was that all good comes from Christ. All evil comes from Satan. So whether I give as a Mormon with real intent to do good or whether you do or anyone else, is it not of God?

As for sinful people giving good gifts, is it not also true that we are all sinners. Therefore, just because we are sinners, does not mean that we cannot be influenced by God to do good things.

Your last statement "Oh and righteousness is not really about what you give, I will give you a clue it's
about what you receive." I am not sure what you mean by this but, in my personal opinion, righteousness is all about giving. We are to try and emulate Jesus Christ with all our being, to the best of our abilities. This is part of righteousness. And Jesus Christ lived solely to give. He gave of himself every minute of every day, helping the poor, the sick, the spiritually depraved, and ultimately he gave his life. We ought to give the same, to the best of our abilities, which might not be temporal things as we might not have temporal things, but we can give away that which we can, again to the best of our abilities.

Well cah2, welcome to thr forums, it's pleasure to have you here. Since were speaking about truth let ask you a couple of questions. Joseph Smith had a couple of visions and according to your D&C Smith stated God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ appeared to him. Later on Smith said that he inquired of the Lord in order to know which of all the sects was right so I can know which one to join.

The answer he received from the Lord was answered that "I must join none of them, for they are all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; they teach for doctrines the commandments of man, having the form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

So I want to ask if you believe what jospeh smith had said is true, and secondly, how do you know? Thank You!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[CAH2]

CAH2,

What is shown in your post has some merit, but also some defects. So we need to separate the chaff from the wheat on the basis of what is in the Holy Bible


This is not exactly what Jesus said. Yes, by their works (or their fruits) ye shall know them, but "then they are good also" implies that it is good works which make men righteous, rather than the reverse, which is that those who are righteous (justified) in Christ produce good works. So there is a subtle difference.


This too is close to the truth, but the Bible says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin, so "real faith" rather than "real intent" would be more appropriate.


This confirms what I said above, since Scripture says "Abraham believed God [real faith] and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Again, there is a subtle shift from Bible truth over here. God deems sinners as "evil" for their evil deeds. If an evil man brings an offering to God with a wrong motive, or prays to God, he is already evil in the sight of God, regardless of this particular instance.


This is undoubtedly true.


This is not exactly what the Bible says. In fact Christ said that even evil men give good gifts to their children. Furthermore, the Bible says that all men have a conscience, and if they act according to the dictates of their conscience, they will be following the Law (the Ten Commandments). However, only that which is produced by the Holy Spirit within a regenerated person comes from God.


This principle is indeed true, but "perfect knowledge" will only be found in the regenerated person who goes by what is in Scripture. Therefore while the unsaved can indeed distinguish between good and evil, they can only have perfect knowledge when they are in Christ.


Now here we have FALSE DOCTRINE. Had this verse said "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man who repents and believes on Him" that would have been perfectly in accord with Scripture (Acts 2:38).


This is quite correct.

So to sum up, since there is a mixture of truth and error in the Book of Mormon, we cannot receive it as Divinely inspired Scripture, since Scripture cannot contradict or bypass Scripture.

Nehemiah6, you really make me think which is what I love about this type of chat room.

This is not exactly what Jesus said. Yes, by their works (or their fruits) ye shall know them, but "then they are good also" implies that it is good works which make men righteous, rather than the reverse, which is that those who are righteous (justified) in Christ produce good works. So there is a subtle difference.

I think that your point is that despite the many good works one does they do not justify (save) you without the grace of Christ to overcome our sin??? However, it is one's belief and faith in Christ, in correct principles & doctrine, that ultimately make our works acceptable to God???

If this is so I think we are both on the same page. However, we probably disagree on some of the correct principles and doctrine.
Am I right?

 

[Willie-T]

Nehemiah6, you really make me think which is what I love about this type of chat room.

This is not exactly what Jesus said. Yes, by their works (or their fruits) ye shall know them, but "then they are good also" implies that it is good works which make men righteous, rather than the reverse, which is that those who are righteous (justified) in Christ produce good works. So there is a subtle difference.

I think that your point is that despite the many good works one does they do not justify (save) you without the grace of Christ to overcome our sin??? However, it is one's belief and faith in Christ, in correct principles & doctrine, that ultimately make our works acceptable to God???

If this is so I think we are both on the same page. However, we probably disagree on some of the correct principles and doctrine.
Am I right?

So close.... and yet, the cart still before the horse. ☺

 

[CAH2]

Summary of Joseph Smith's doctrine of origins and chronological sequences.

1. Matter is eternal
2. This matter produced a human that grew in wisdom and became the first man.
3.This man eventually became the God of the Biblical Genesis who produced other humans.
4. From these humans came more Gods.
5. Only through Joseph Smith (he will accept only those whom he approves) will we be able to enter into the kingdom where we will become a God of our own planet.

Pretty close to evolution in my opinion. They don't believe God is a Spirit.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I'm just chiming in here as a Mormon. I don't have all of backup I should to make this claim but as a Mormon this is not completely true..

1. We do believe that matter is eternal.
2. We do not believe that this matter produced a human. If I am correct, we believe that spirits always existed as matter did and that a spirit grew in wisdom to become a God. We do not know how he received his own body whether he created it himself or not. But it was taught somewhere that "as man is God once was."
3. This Spirit was God the Father whose desire was for all intelligent spirits to reach his level of development, which was perfection in all of its forms (Knowledge, mercy, justice, charity, power). A plan was formed to create an earth where these spirits would receive an imperfect body, becoming man, and would have the ability to choose that path that would lead to Godhood, a plan that required man to follow his commandments. However, God understood that man would fall as he would not be able to choose right all of the time which would cause both spiritual (separation from God) and physical (separation of spirit from body) death. Therefore, a Savior was required to save us from both spiritual and physical death. Jesus Christ was then chosen by God to be our Savior. It is Jesus Christ, in our beliefs, who created the world under the direction of God the Father and who gave himself a sacrifice for our sins.
4. Only those who are righteous, having faith in God and Jesus Christ, who have received all of the saving ordinances will be allowed to progress to godhood.
5.This is not part of Mormon doctrine to my knowledge and I have never been taught this. If you have some evidence of this this would be interesting to see.

 

[garee]

It would seem you missed the second part of the question which is essential in both parts. Do we need a man to teach us?

From the private interpretation as a commentarry of men that you offered. they wrote.......These verses of scripture have been cited repeatedly by those attempting to discredit the Book of Mormon, claiming that God’s revelation to man is closed. Nothing more is to be added and nothing is to be taken away. They assert that the Book of Mormon is an attempt to add to the words of the Bible.

Its not adding to the words that are already there, .in that way every man has their own what scripture calls “private interpretation” as a commentary of men .But adding new revelations, a new chapter which the Catholics call private revelations. It is what the Book of Mormons is made up of.....the private interpretation of Mr. Smith goes to Salt Lake City.

These claims were made when the Book of Mormon was first published and have continued to be made, and are made today. Is there any validity to such assertions?
The answer to this query is really very simple. A careful reading of the words makes it clear that the warning against adding to or taking away does not refer to the whole Bible or even to the New Testament, but to use John’s words, only to the words of “the book of this prophecy.” That is, the prophecy contained in the book of Revelation. This is substantiated by the fact that some of the books of the New Testament had not yet been written when John wrote the book of Revelation, and even those that had been written and were in existence at that time had not yet been gathered into one compilation.

When they appeared does not mean they were not part of the whole book of prophecy the perfect Bible. God’s book of the law (no theories)

No we need more than he has revealed by going above it, as it is written? Are there loving laws missing by which we could know him who has no form more adequately?

The collection of writings consisting of the sixty-six books we know as the Bible were brought together and compiled into one volume long after John wrote the prophetic book that has been placed at the end of the collection. It is clear, therefore, that the terrible judgments pronounced upon those who add to the book could not possibly apply to the whole of the Bible or even to the New Testament, but only to the book of Revelation.

Sounds like Catholicism. Again when they were complied does not determine if it makes up the whole called the perfect .Moses wrote the first five books over a thousand years later as God moved him to both will and do His good pleasure, by the finger of God. God is not affected by time restraints. His truth was truth long before that

Secondly, the warning uses the words “the prophecy of this book” and also “the words of the book of this prophecy.” The word book in both instances is singular and could only refer to the book of prophecy written by John which is titled, in the King James Version, “The Revelation of St. John the Divine” and is often referred to as the Apocalypse—a Greek word which means revealed. Of necessity the word book would have been in the singular because when written it was not associated with any other book or books, and it was after many years and many ecclesiastical debates that it was added to the collection that became known as the new canon of scripture or the New Testament.

It’s all one book. We cannot know the plagues written in the book without comparing them to the other chapters that some call books

It is also interesting to note that John himself added to scripture after writing the book of Revelation, which is generally conceded to have been written while he was on the Isle of Patmos. It was long after John left Patmos that he wrote his first epistle

.

There goes the generally conceded

This fact standing alone would be sufficient to defeat the claim that revelation was closed and that man was enjoined from adding to scripture. This adds cumulative evidence that John had reference to the book of Revelation only.

When he was moved to write the thoughts of God is not the issue .If he was moved and if God is still bringing new revelations, it. is the issue


In the Old Testament also are found similar vigorous denunciations and commands that there shall not be taken away or added to the words that were written. The first is found in Deuteronomy, written at the time Moses was exhorting Israel to live the law of the Lord.

That commandment differs seeing it is not speaking of adding to th whole or perfect. The commandment is not to add to a word singular .adding a different meaning to a word can change the authorship. The other commandment at the closing of the book of prophecy the Bible. together they work to protect us from those who would add and therefore they who do add receive the strong delusion so they can keep on believing the lie according to the signs and lying wonders, with all authority…../power from Satan

The Torah was oral law and had not been reduced to writing prior to the time of the codification of the law in Deuteronomy. Now that it had been reduced to writing by Moses prior to his death and assumed to be complete, Moses wrote:
“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deut. 4:2.)
Later in this same book of the law, Moses repeated the admonition in similar words. He said,
“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.” (Deut. 12:32.)

Different kind of warning distinguishable from the Revelation reference .again one word singular the other the perfect words plural (all of them)

In the minds of some, these admonitions in the Old Testament raise the same question as to the Book of Mormon being an attempted addition to scripture as does the injunction and warning at the end of the book of Revelation. In effect, these passages contain the same injunction as the one at the close of the Apocalypse; and if the same interpretation and argument was applied to them as is applied to the closing verses of the book of Revelation, there would be no scripture after the writings of Moses. Such an absurdity would result in discarding the greater part of the Old Testament and all of the books of the New Testament.
A careful reading of each of these admonitions makes it clear that man is not to make changes in the revelations of the Lord: man is not to add to or take from the words of God. There is no indication or intimation that God could not, or would not, add to or take from; nor would any reasonable person with a belief in the divine powers of God consciously believe that God would be so restricted. Without question he would have the right and power to give additional revelation for the guidance of his children in any age and to add additional scripture

.

God restricts his own self magnifying his living abiding word above all his authority as the final authority as it is written . He himself is subject to it and cannot add or subtract.(Our safeguard) guaranteeing our promise

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

A study of the revelations of the Lord in holy writ confirms the fact that it is continuous revelation that guides prophets and the Church in any age. Were it not for continuous revelation, Noah would not have been prepared for the deluge that encompassed the earth. Abraham would not have been guided from Haran to Hebron, the Land of Promise. Continuous revelation led the children of Israel from bondage back to their promised land. Revelation through prophets guided missionary efforts, directed the rebuilding of Solomon’s temple, and denounced the infiltration of pagan practices among the Israelites.
Before the ascension of Christ, he promised the remaining eleven apostles, “lo, I am with you alway, Even unto the end of the world.” (Matt. 28:20.)

He was still adding at that time.

Following his ascension, he guided the Church by revelation until the death of the Apostles and subsequent apostasy of the Church of Jesus Christ.
A distinctive sign of the last days that will precede the eventual second coming of the Lord was seen in vision by that same Apostle who recorded the book of Revelation. He said:
“I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.” (Rev. 14:6.)
The fact that John saw a messenger from God reveal anew a lost gospel negates the argument that further revelation could not be added to the Bible.

That is not a addition but a requirement to believe the prophecy .The information is from the scriptures that we are not to add to.

Do we need a man to teach us?

 

[CAH2]

Well cah2, welcome to thr forums, it's pleasure to have you here. Since were speaking about truth let ask you a couple of questions. Joseph Smith had a couple of visions and according to your D&C Smith stated God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ appeared to him. Later on Smith said that he inquired of the Lord in order to know which of all the sects was right so I can know which one to join.

The answer he received from the Lord was answered that "I must join none of them, for they are all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; they teach for doctrines the commandments of man, having the form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

So I want to ask if you believe what jospeh smith had said is true, and secondly, how do you know? Thank You!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Thanks Bluto for the welcome. You ask a good question and I don't know if I have a great answer for you. Maybe I'll try to answer a question with another question: How do you know the Bible is true? Or, How do you know Moses parted the Red Sea? Now, those may be silly questions, but at the same time they are serious. Now I believe the Bible to be the word of God and that Moses parted the Red Sea and that he was a mighty prophet of God. These things are spiritual in nature and therefore require spiritual attestation of their truth as many 'worldly' things may contradict them. For me, I believe I have felt those spiritual attestations as to the truthfulness of Joseph's story. I have read the Book of Mormon and believe it to align with the teachings of the Bible as far as I know. I believe that the principles of the church are good and they have brought me peace and happiness into my life. With that said, I do not know 100%, or with pure knowledge, that all of things are true. I have not seen God or Jesus Christ myself and they have not told me directly of their truthfulness. Therefore, it is through faith that I believe, as I am guessing it is through faith that you believe what you do.

I'm not sure that was helpful.

 

[bluto]

Thanks Bluto for the welcome. You ask a good question and I don't know if I have a great answer for you. Maybe I'll try to answer a question with another question: How do you know the Bible is true? Or, How do you know Moses parted the Red Sea? Now, those may be silly questions, but at the same time they are serious. Now I believe the Bible to be the word of God and that Moses parted the Red Sea and that he was a mighty prophet of God. These things are spiritual in nature and therefore require spiritual attestation of their truth as many 'worldly' things may contradict them. For me, I believe I have felt those spiritual attestations as to the truthfulness of Joseph's story. I have read the Book of Mormon and believe it to align with the teachings of the Bible as far as I know. I believe that the principles of the church are good and they have brought me peace and happiness into my life. With that said, I do not know 100%, or with pure knowledge, that all of things are true. I have not seen God or Jesus Christ myself and they have not told me directly of their truthfulness. Therefore, it is through faith that I believe, as I am guessing it is through faith that you believe what you do.

I'm not sure that was helpful.

I will be more than happy to answer your questions first but can you first tell me how long have you been an lds, and how did you become an lds? Just give me the short version and then I will address your questions? Btw, have you been on a mission? Thank You! :eek

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[CAH2]

I will be more than happy to answer your questions first but can you first tell me how long have you been an lds, and how did you become an lds? Just give me the short version and then I will address your questions? Btw, have you been on a mission? Thank You! :eek

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Perfect. I've been a member my whole life. I'm 37 years old. And yes, I did serve a mission.

 

[Dan_473]

the gospel has always been around, it doesn't need restoring.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of

the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed

from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Angela53510]

Interesting God spoke to Joseph Smith in Elizabethan English in the 1820's! Now, some might say that God speaks Elizabethean English, on this forum, which is why only the KJ Bible is correct. Yet, since I have read the opening chapters of the Book of Mormon and know it contradicts the Bible, my understanding is that Smith chose to piggy back on the KJV.

Or do Mormons have an unauthorized Book of Mormon, in modern English? And are there fights about which version is correct? I would refer to the Koine Greek and Masoretic Hebrew, but since those don't exist for the Book of Mormon, for obvious reasons, I'll pass on dechipering this passage.

Might I suggest, you get a modern version of the Bible, read it through a few times, and see the contradictions between the BoM and the Bible? I pray then God will save you and pull you out of this cult! No "burning in the breast" necessary! (Or heartburn!)