my brother became a Mormon and my mom is freaking out

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C

CAH2

Guest
I can't imagine anyone would say that except a Mormon.

I grew up in the Mormon church; it is absolutely, 100%, NOT Christian in any way.

They don't believe Jesus was God.
They believe Jesus was just a man, and he was soo good that he BECAME A God.... of which there are many.
And if the Mormons are really good, they can all become Gods too.

Joseph Smith, their prophet, was a convicted con man.
Even his con gimmick was ridiculous.
He'd put a "magic" rock in his hat, peep into his hat, and see magical information about where to dig for hidden treasure.
He'd visit farmers, do his "peeps stone" trick, and tell them they had hidden treasure on their land, and they'd have to pay him for the information... then he'd run off as fast as possible with the money.
He got thrown into jail more than once.
This stuff is all verified in court records, newspapers, personal letters etc. etc. etc.


If you want to join a fake church, who's prophet was a convicted con man, and who's members believe Jesus was NOT God incarnate, and that Jesus was Satan's brother, and that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri, and you can wear magical "sacred temple" underwear to protect you, and that you can hold baptisms for DEAD PEOPLE by proxy ... well well... the mormon church is the place for you.





Maxwel,

I am a Mormon. My purpose in writing is to correct some of which you wrote. You mentioned that we don't believe that Jesus was God and that he was just a man who became a god. This is not true. I cite from the Book of Mormon because it is unique scripture that only Mormon's believe in.

This scripture's author was one King Benjamin who was speaking to his people before he died preaching unto them that Christ would come and who he would be. This is the excerpt explaining that he was God: Mosiah 3:8 "And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary."

Another scripture from the Book of Mormon that mentions that Christ is the Eternal God. In this scripture Nephi, a Book of Mormon prophet was preaching and prophesying to his people 2 Nephi 1:12 "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;"

And another scripture being preached by the brother of Nephi, speaking of Jesus as the Creator of the world; 2 Nephi 9:5-6 "Yea, I know that ye know that in the body he shall show himself unto those at Jerusalem, from whence we came; for it is expedient that it should be among them; for it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh, and die for all men, that all men might become subject unto him."

We do believe that Jesus is our Savior as taught in this Book of Mormon scripture: 2 Nephi 25:20, 23-24 "And now, my brethren, I have spoken plainly that ye cannot err. And as the Lord God liveth that brought Israel up out of the land of Egypt, and gave unto Moses power that he should heal the nations after they had been bitten by the poisonous serpents, if they would cast their eyes unto the serpent which he did raise up before them, and also gave him power that he should smite the rock and the water should come forth; yea, behold I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven save it be this Jesus Christ, of which I have spoken, whereby man can be saved."

Now, we do believe that man can become as God and receive all that he has. I will use Bible references for these purposes because there are Bible versus that suggest that we can become as God.

Genesis 1:26-27 "26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Our belief is that we were created in God's image, as He is, with flesh and bone. We, however, do not believe our body is glorified as is God's, perfect in every way. However, we can receive such a body (through the resurrection (body and spirit reuniting), and our faith in Christ), thus becoming like God.

Genesis 2:17: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:..."

These scriptures in Genesis suggest a progression in mankind toward becoming as God, that Adam and Eve were not knowledgeable as was God as things to pertaining to good and evil and that by partaking of the fruit their understanding was increased, thus, becoming that much more like God.

Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high."

John 10:33-34 "33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone the not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are gods?"

2 Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

Romans 8:16-17 "16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God; 17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Revelations 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

So it is true that we believe in becoming gods. Our belief is partly founded from Bible scriptures which you can see. One thought that I have had in the past about this doctrine we believe; A God that is willing to make us as He is, is a God that gives us all that He has. This is the truest love that there can be. For no being can give more than that!



As for the accusations against Joseph Smith; I have no evidence at this time to support or refute them. I am wondering where you got the information that he was a con-man? I've heard this argument before, but I'm wondering where there is reliable evidence for it. Maybe you have it???
 

Huckleberry

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
1,698
96
48
As for the accusations against Joseph Smith; I have no evidence at this time to support or refute them. I am wondering where you got the information that he was a con-man? I've heard this argument before, but I'm wondering where there is reliable evidence for it. Maybe you have it???
There are several million people blindly following Joseph Smith, who made up his
own sham religion so he could fool around with as many ladies as he wanted to.
He plagiarized a book and claimed it was revelation from God,
and he stole all his rituals from the freemasons.
That Joseph Smith was a conman and a fraud is incontrovertible.
How much evidence do you need?
You've got to be a special kind of gullible to remain Mormon in the information age.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,043
513
113
Maxwel,

I am a Mormon. My purpose in writing is to correct some of which you wrote. You mentioned that we don't believe that Jesus was God and that he was just a man who became a god. This is not true. I cite from the Book of Mormon because it is unique scripture that only Mormon's believe in.

This scripture's author was one King Benjamin who was speaking to his people before he died preaching unto them that Christ would come and who he would be. This is the excerpt explaining that he was God: Mosiah 3:8 "And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary."

Another scripture from the Book of Mormon that mentions that Christ is the Eternal God. In this scripture Nephi, a Book of Mormon prophet was preaching and prophesying to his people 2 Nephi 1:12 "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;"

And another scripture being preached by the brother of Nephi, speaking of Jesus as the Creator of the world; 2 Nephi 9:5-6 "Yea, I know that ye know that in the body he shall show himself unto those at Jerusalem, from whence we came; for it is expedient that it should be among them; for it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh, and die for all men, that all men might become subject unto him."

We do believe that Jesus is our Savior as taught in this Book of Mormon scripture: 2 Nephi 25:20, 23-24 "And now, my brethren, I have spoken plainly that ye cannot err. And as the Lord God liveth that brought Israel up out of the land of Egypt, and gave unto Moses power that he should heal the nations after they had been bitten by the poisonous serpents, if they would cast their eyes unto the serpent which he did raise up before them, and also gave him power that he should smite the rock and the water should come forth; yea, behold I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven save it be this Jesus Christ, of which I have spoken, whereby man can be saved."

Now, we do believe that man can become as God and receive all that he has. I will use Bible references for these purposes because there are Bible versus that suggest that we can become as God.

Genesis 1:26-27 "26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Our belief is that we were created in God's image, as He is, with flesh and bone. We, however, do not believe our body is glorified as is God's, perfect in every way. However, we can receive such a body (through the resurrection (body and spirit reuniting), and our faith in Christ), thus becoming like God.

Genesis 2:17: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:..."

These scriptures in Genesis suggest a progression in mankind toward becoming as God, that Adam and Eve were not knowledgeable as was God as things to pertaining to good and evil and that by partaking of the fruit their understanding was increased, thus, becoming that much more like God.

Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high."

John 10:33-34 "33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone the not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are gods?"

2 Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

Romans 8:16-17 "16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God; 17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Revelations 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

So it is true that we believe in becoming gods. Our belief is partly founded from Bible scriptures which you can see. One thought that I have had in the past about this doctrine we believe; A God that is willing to make us as He is, is a God that gives us all that He has. This is the truest love that there can be. For no being can give more than that!



As for the accusations against Joseph Smith; I have no evidence at this time to support or refute them. I am wondering where you got the information that he was a con-man? I've heard this argument before, but I'm wondering where there is reliable evidence for it. Maybe you have it???
I see cah2 you have been trained well. Every word you said, or should I say every word of your argument about "being as god" that you learned from you lds teachers can be found at the following web site and it's rebuttal. Please read the following. Becoming Like God - Response to LDS.org And btw, I will give you evidence that soundly refutes joseph smith's claims. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
C

CAH2

Guest
Hey Bluto, I read the replies on MormonThink.com about the scriptures I used as references from the Bible. It was interesting to me the background that was given explaining Christ's arguments when he said "Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are gods." I appreciate the reading.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,043
513
113
Hey Bluto, I read the replies on MormonThink.com about the scriptures I used as references from the Bible. It was interesting to me the background that was given explaining Christ's arguments when he said "Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are gods." I appreciate the reading.
Well that's good cah. But do you understand the point Jesus was making or why He quoted Psalm 82:6? It has absolutely nothing to do with men being gods. The men at Psalm 82:6 are judges representing God and they were judging matters unfairly. This is also why at Psalm 82:7 it says, "And you shall die like the men that your are."

The reason why the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus for blasphemy at John 10:33 is because of what Jesus said at John 10:30 when He said, "I and the Father, We are one." This means that God the Father and Jesus Christ are one in nature or essence." So when Jesus ask them why do you want to kill Me they say at vs33, "You, being a man make Yourself out God."

Then at this point Jesus turns the tables on them and brings up Psalm 82:6. He is taking the the Jew' statement about Him blaspheming to its logical conclusion to show that they are being inconsistent. In effect, Jesus is sayin, "If you say that I am blaspheming, you must also hold tha God is blaspheming because He said to those by whom the word of God came, "ye are gods." The problem is that the Jews did not believe Jesus Christ was God. So again, this has nothing to do with men being gods in any way, shape or form, period.

So cah, let me ask you this question? Can you provide evidence of any kind that the Book of Mormon is able to pass the test for basic historic truth regarding the people, places and events that supports its historical claims? Thanks! :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Smoke

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
I believe God can judge perfectly and see into the hearts of man. Do I believe in Mormonism? Absolutely not, but I'm not going to do as many here are doing and condemn them to hell (or passive aggressively imply they are condemned to hell). If someone was deceived into that faith, and that person believes with all their heart they are doing what Heavenly Father wants them to do (which 99% of them probably feel), I find it difficult to believe God will be like, "Tough luck, you were conned on earth and even though you claimed to believe in my only begotten son Jesus Christ, it was the "fake" one... bye Felicia!" Maybe... I just have a difficult time believing it though.
 
C

CAH2

Guest
Well that's good cah. But do you understand the point Jesus was making or why He quoted Psalm 82:6? It has absolutely nothing to do with men being gods. The men at Psalm 82:6 are judges representing God and they were judging matters unfairly. This is also why at Psalm 82:7 it says, "And you shall die like the men that your are."

The reason why the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus for blasphemy at John 10:33 is because of what Jesus said at John 10:30 when He said, "I and the Father, We are one." This means that God the Father and Jesus Christ are one in nature or essence." So when Jesus ask them why do you want to kill Me they say at vs33, "You, being a man make Yourself out God."

Then at this point Jesus turns the tables on them and brings up Psalm 82:6. He is taking the the Jew' statement about Him blaspheming to its logical conclusion to show that they are being inconsistent. In effect, Jesus is sayin, "If you say that I am blaspheming, you must also hold tha God is blaspheming because He said to those by whom the word of God came, "ye are gods." The problem is that the Jews did not believe Jesus Christ was God. So again, this has nothing to do with men being gods in any way, shape or form, period.

So cah, let me ask you this question? Can you provide evidence of any kind that the Book of Mormon is able to pass the test for basic historic truth regarding the people, places and events that supports its historical claims? Thanks! :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

So I wish I could spend more time doing this. I think it is great discussion and definitely pushes us to think and explore the things of God. I really did enjoy the reading you provided about Psalm 82:6 and John 10:33. I have found an article by Patrick D. Miller who is the Charles T. Haley professor of Old Testament Theology Emeritus at Princeton Theological Seminary. He is also an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church. Read this article. It is really interesting and I think it applies to these scriptures. I've provided the link to the article and then his comments from another discussion forum I found. It's not to prove or disprove anything. Just to say that their are different opinions on the matter and that we really need to focus on our relationship with God and allow him to guide us; trust that he will answer our prayers and teach us as we seek him and ask for truth.

Discussion post by Patrick D. Miller:
Mormon Discussions • View topic - 'ye are gods' in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34?"

Article by Patrick D. Miller:
http://drmsh.com/wp-content/uploads...Divine-Council-as-Cosmic-Political-Symbol.pdf

CAH2