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Dec 3, 2016
1,674
25
0
#41
Okay, time for my fly swatter to return.

My old username on here was AtWhatCost. (No, I wasn't banned. I left, and I left because of this kind of mentality posing as Christian. I'm back because not everyone on this site has this pompousness to them and my hubby needed a lot of prayer. Prayer worked. God brought him back to fairly good health, when most of his doctors were telling me he was going to die in the next 24 hours -- and 24 hours was the long-term on what they were telling me -- and then telling us he would always be drastically disabled. They were wrong -- twice. He is merely not 100%, because what 70 year old is? lol)

Back then I wrote a blog about the thorn in Paul's side. Considering how often that is an excuse used to browbeat Christians who are sick and/or disabled that God has not chosen to heal, it's time to resurrect it.

My handy-dandy fly swatter --
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ealing-disability-illness-unbelief-posts.html

Jesus said the unbelieving and the fearful (among others) will be cast in to hell over in the Book of Revelation.

Whether you like it or not choosing to not believe what God promised concerning healing being His will... IS actually a sin and being in fear is actually a sin too.

Many are not healed cause they have been taught wrongly from God's Word that healing is not for us or God does not always heal (He promised healing, so this is calling God a liar!)... even if they are otherwise sincere they have big problems and don't even know where satan got in to their lives concerning their health.

The key is understanding that satan seeks to choke the Word out of us... the best way to do that is have silly, ignorant preachers teach healing is not for us or God does not always heal from the pulpit.

This is one of satan's slickest tricks cause many preachers have a degree from somewhere and this makes lots of folks trust them thinking they are knowledgeable when in reality they are wolves who damage the sheep.





I often think about the muslim Christians
That's laughable! There is no such thing as a muzlim Christian... you are either a muzlim or a Christian, you cannot be both at the same time no more than you can be a Christian and a catholik
 
T

trucker62

Guest
#42
I can see that people are not going to agree with me on Pauls Thorn in the flesh..That is ok!

The thing I have a hard time with is people believing that God uses the devil in our lives to teach and train us. They use the book of Job all the time and that is one book that people have so misread and misunderstood that it has been the scape goat for christians to justify God uses the devil to bring teaching and calamity into Christians lives.

First of all that is not true, and if you read Job, you will discover that there are things that Job truly stated about God in the story, but they are not true about God. In fact if you read the last chapter he repents by saying I have rashly uttered things I did not understand. In other words, he blamed God for what Satan brought into his life.

When God said to Satan, behold all that he has is in your hands, He was not giving permission to the devil to afflict Job, he was stating the fact that due to Adam, the earth was under the dominion of Satan until a mediator could be found. At that time there was no one to stand up for Job.

If you go into Job 1: 8 there is a statement that God says to satan, have you considered my Servant Job that he is blameless etc,etc.. The word considered means, Have you set your heart on my servant Job. In other words, have you come to attack him? If you read the book of Job and understand that it is a book about how men in their wisdom tried to figure out what Job was going through and that they used Mens wisdom instead of Gods, then you begin to understand that the book is a book of victory, God is a good God and satan is evil..But that is another post.

God is a good God, he does not use satan to teach us anything in life, he does not bring destruction into your life, especially under the new covenant. Has anyone read Isaiah 54: verse 9-10 speaking of the New Covenant?

Everything we read must be read through the lens of what Jesus accomplished for us in his death, burial and resurrection. You must understand that God is not using evil to teach and train you. Besides that he already knows what you are going to do anyway.

I have to grudgedly admire people who still serve a God who kills, steals and destroys to teach and train you, who uses sickness as a tool to train you and the whole other myriad of things our supposed loving Father does to us in his effort to persuade us of his love. ( please read with sarcasm)

So, end this post with this simple fact:

God is for you, the devil is against you.. Really simple!

I know this, trials come to all of us, that in trials, we have the choice to rest in Gods promises of rest and escape, or his Grace to empower us to endure when needed and his unfailing love for us by saying I will never leave or forsake you.

We even make bad choices and yet again, God is there to walk us through them. But the key is, he is not the author of the problems. Yes we face persecution, sickness, calamity, loss of loved ones, financial woes and many other things life due to the fall or our own wrong choices bring. But never is God the one who brings this on us. Heck, even James tells us that God does not use evil against us and not to be deceived.

Many of us have had bad Father images, so it is hard to see God in a good light unless you have a revelation of his Goodness. As long as you see God as the one who comes along side of the devil to train you, you are in for a miserable Christian life.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#43
Paul's thorn in the side was that of persecutions for the gospels sake..He died daily as his physical life was in danger fighting with religious beasts at Ephesus. And of course Pauls' battle against them was in the spirit and not in the flesh. Anyway, the Lord told him that his empowerment of the Spirit (grace) was all he needed to continue..
 
W

willybob

Guest
#44
So, it's your belief that it was Satan who didn’t want Paul to get to all puffed up with pride?
Satan can only do what God allows, nothing more....God uses Satan to test his believers such as in the story of Job...God takes the evil works of Satan and his minions and works all things for the good of those that love HIM..
 
Apr 4, 2017
290
9
0
#45
Jesus said the unbelieving and the fearful (among others) will be cast in to hell over in the Book of Revelation.

Whether you like it or not choosing to not believe what God promised concerning healing being His will... IS actually a sin and being in fear is actually a sin too.

Many are not healed cause they have been taught wrongly from God's Word that healing is not for us or God does not always heal (He promised healing, so this is calling God a liar!)... even if they are otherwise sincere they have big problems and don't even know where satan got in to their lives concerning their health.

The key is understanding that satan seeks to choke the Word out of us... the best way to do that is have silly, ignorant preachers teach healing is not for us or God does not always heal from the pulpit.

This is one of satan's slickest tricks cause many preachers have a degree from somewhere and this makes lots of folks trust them thinking they are knowledgeable when in reality they are wolves who damage the sheep.







That's laughable! There is no such thing as a muzlim Christian... you are either a muzlim or a Christian, you cannot be both at the same time no more than you can be a Christian and a catholik
And there is no condemnation in Jesus....
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#46
Ok...the former muslim now Christians...

Better? Straining at gnats....
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,003
26,138
113
#47
Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#48
And there is no condemnation in Jesus....
Please to continue if I may: There is no condemnation for those that walk after the law of the Spirit and NOT after the desires of the flesh..Those walking in the flesh/sin/unbelief are already condemned said Jesus..The wrath of God is upon the children of obedience...
 
Apr 4, 2017
290
9
0
#49
I can see that people are not going to agree with me on Pauls Thorn in the flesh..That is ok!

The thing I have a hard time with is people believing that God uses the devil in our lives to teach and train us. They use the book of Job all the time and that is one book that people have so misread and misunderstood that it has been the scape goat for christians to justify God uses the devil to bring teaching and calamity into Christians lives.

First of all that is not true, and if you read Job, you will discover that there are things that Job truly stated about God in the story, but they are not true about God. In fact if you read the last chapter he repents by saying I have rashly uttered things I did not understand. In other words, he blamed God for what Satan brought into his life.

When God said to Satan, behold all that he has is in your hands, He was not giving permission to the devil to afflict Job, he was stating the fact that due to Adam, the earth was under the dominion of Satan until a mediator could be found. At that time there was no one to stand up for Job.

If you go into Job 1: 8 there is a statement that God says to satan, have you considered my Servant Job that he is blameless etc,etc.. The word considered means, Have you set your heart on my servant Job. In other words, have you come to attack him? If you read the book of Job and understand that it is a book about how men in their wisdom tried to figure out what Job was going through and that they used Mens wisdom instead of Gods, then you begin to understand that the book is a book of victory, God is a good God and satan is evil..But that is another post.

God is a good God, he does not use satan to teach us anything in life, he does not bring destruction into your life, especially under the new covenant. Has anyone read Isaiah 54: verse 9-10 speaking of the New Covenant?

Everything we read must be read through the lens of what Jesus accomplished for us in his death, burial and resurrection. You must understand that God is not using evil to teach and train you. Besides that he already knows what you are going to do anyway.

I have to grudgedly admire people who still serve a God who kills, steals and destroys to teach and train you, who uses sickness as a tool to train you and the whole other myriad of things our supposed loving Father does to us in his effort to persuade us of his love. ( please read with sarcasm)

So, end this post with this simple fact:

God is for you, the devil is against you.. Really simple!

I know this, trials come to all of us, that in trials, we have the choice to rest in Gods promises of rest and escape, or his Grace to empower us to endure when needed and his unfailing love for us by saying I will never leave or forsake you.

We even make bad choices and yet again, God is there to walk us through them. But the key is, he is not the author of the problems. Yes we face persecution, sickness, calamity, loss of loved ones, financial woes and many other things life due to the fall or our own wrong choices bring. But never is God the one who brings this on us. Heck, even James tells us that God does not use evil against us and not to be deceived.

Many of us have had bad Father images, so it is hard to see God in a good light unless you have a revelation of his Goodness. As long as you see God as the one who comes along side of the devil to train you, you are in for a miserable Christian life.
At the core you have missed the real story in Job...

Did Job have faith in God or did God have faith in Job?

Many have Faith in God, but does God have faith in them....

You have Faith in God, but does God have faith in you?

Great women and men of God had 1 thing in common....God had faith in them....

One can limit the faith God has in them and the blessings of a trial, because they are blinded to think God is so Good he would not allow me to go through anything bad....yet they forgot that if God gets glory out of their suffering, then that is wall that matters....My cousin was promoted to glory back in 2004, she had a very aggressive form of cancer...the whole family was saying this was not of God...which is correct, sickness does not come from God....My cousin led over 300 to the Lord while she was being treated....and then she died.....several of her Atheist Doctors and Nurses found Jesus and not because she was radically healed...it was because she was radically moving towards death....her knowledge in the Lord and the fact that her physical death was just the start of her life is what convinced these People there was a Jesus who died for them.....she would tell people all the time...I did not come here to live I came her to die and in my obedience to the sufferings and pain and illness I will live again, just like my Jesus did... She was living Heb 5.7-9 out loud:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

Now pay attention here very carefully...Had God healed her before she went to the cancer treatment center, or had she kept being selfish and claiming her own healing as many state she should have would 300+ people came to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? probably not.....Was God teaching her something?....certainly not!...Did God have Faith in her?...absolutely!
Was God glorified by her sickness?.....without doubt!....Did Satan bring it upon her and God knew about it?...without question!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#50
In 2016, most of the media and the people around us were strongly suggesting Hillary Clinton should be the next President of the United States. To put this politely, I trust their words more than your rendering of your personal message from your own ego. And to be clear, I voted for Trump specifically to avoid Hillary becoming the next Prez.

You are a child in full tantrum mode. Nothing to learn from you. Only purpose on being on this tread is to make sure no one learns from you.

Capiche?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#52
Ok...the former muslim now Christians...

Better? Straining at gnats....
Honestly? Just thought you were calling a nation something other than what nation they're from. lol

I have a Lebanese friend who had to leave Lebanon during their war. He was never Muslim. He was a Catholic. Now he is a believer. It is possible to live in many of those countries and be born and raised "Christian." Now it is less possible.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#53
I can see that people are not going to agree with me on Pauls Thorn in the flesh..That is ok!

The thing I have a hard time with is people believing that God uses the devil in our lives to teach and train us. They use the book of Job all the time and that is one book that people have so misread and misunderstood that it has been the scape goat for christians to justify God uses the devil to bring teaching and calamity into Christians lives.

First of all that is not true, and if you read Job, you will discover that there are things that Job truly stated about God in the story, but they are not true about God. In fact if you read the last chapter he repents by saying I have rashly uttered things I did not understand. In other words, he blamed God for what Satan brought into his life.

When God said to Satan, behold all that he has is in your hands, He was not giving permission to the devil to afflict Job, he was stating the fact that due to Adam, the earth was under the dominion of Satan until a mediator could be found. At that time there was no one to stand up for Job.

If you go into Job 1: 8 there is a statement that God says to satan, have you considered my Servant Job that he is blameless etc,etc.. The word considered means, Have you set your heart on my servant Job. In other words, have you come to attack him? If you read the book of Job and understand that it is a book about how men in their wisdom tried to figure out what Job was going through and that they used Mens wisdom instead of Gods, then you begin to understand that the book is a book of victory, God is a good God and satan is evil..But that is another post.

God is a good God, he does not use satan to teach us anything in life, he does not bring destruction into your life, especially under the new covenant. Has anyone read Isaiah 54: verse 9-10 speaking of the New Covenant?

Everything we read must be read through the lens of what Jesus accomplished for us in his death, burial and resurrection. You must understand that God is not using evil to teach and train you. Besides that he already knows what you are going to do anyway.

I have to grudgedly admire people who still serve a God who kills, steals and destroys to teach and train you, who uses sickness as a tool to train you and the whole other myriad of things our supposed loving Father does to us in his effort to persuade us of his love. ( please read with sarcasm)

So, end this post with this simple fact:

God is for you, the devil is against you.. Really simple!

I know this, trials come to all of us, that in trials, we have the choice to rest in Gods promises of rest and escape, or his Grace to empower us to endure when needed and his unfailing love for us by saying I will never leave or forsake you.

We even make bad choices and yet again, God is there to walk us through them. But the key is, he is not the author of the problems. Yes we face persecution, sickness, calamity, loss of loved ones, financial woes and many other things life due to the fall or our own wrong choices bring. But never is God the one who brings this on us. Heck, even James tells us that God does not use evil against us and not to be deceived.

Many of us have had bad Father images, so it is hard to see God in a good light unless you have a revelation of his Goodness. As long as you see God as the one who comes along side of the devil to train you, you are in for a miserable Christian life.



Beautiful post. Tried to give you "rep" but it wouldn't let me. Thank you for this post Trucker62 and I hope many will take it into consideration when they think of Job. God did not send satan after Job. No more than He sends the evil one after us today.

God is good and He sent His Son Jesus to get us out of the mess., not to send Jesus to get us only 1/2 out. We fight against evil.,
using the sword of the Spirit (the Spirit and the Word) we don't embrace evil as a gift or lesson from God. We need to know what the truth is and who our enemy is and what our enemy uses against us. Be ready with the truth so we can refute the lies of the enemy. God is good and gives us good gifts. satan is evil and sends us bad things.
 
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Apr 4, 2017
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#54

Beautiful post. Tried to give you "rep" but it wouldn't let me. Thank you for this post Trucker62 and I hope many will take it into consideration when they think of Job. God did not send satan after Job. No more than He sends the evil one after us today.

God is good and He sent His Son Jesus to get us out of the mess., not to send Jesus to get us only 1/2 out. We fight against evil.,
using the sword of the Spirit (the Spirit and the Word) we don't embrace evil as a gift or lesson from God. We need to know what the truth is and who our enemy is and what our enemy uses against us. Be ready with the truth so we can refute the lies of the enemy. God is good and gives us good gifts. satan is evil and sends us bad things.


Few have the stamina to be used of and work unto God, because the cost of persecution or refining fire is far too much for them to bear...this is because they refuse to die to whatever God needs them to die to.

So instead they become takers of God only...this is because they cannot discern between a God given refinement and a bona-fide attack of the enemy.....and war away any opportunity for being sued and working unto God....

Are you stating God did not give Satan Permission to test Job in anyway?
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#55
Few have the stamina to be used of and work unto God, because the cost of persecution or refining fire is far too much for them to bear...this is because they refuse to die to whatever God needs them to die to.

So instead they become takers of God only...this is because they cannot discern between a God given refinement and a bona-fide attack of the enemy.....and war away any opportunity for being sued and working unto God....

Are you stating God did not give Satan Permission to test Job in anyway?
Huh interesting,, so could you elaborate on the refines and persecutes of people?

Also is there anything else God does to or for people?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#57
Honestly? Just thought you were calling a nation something other than what nation they're from. lol

I have a Lebanese friend who had to leave Lebanon during their war. He was never Muslim. He was a Catholic. Now he is a believer. It is possible to live in many of those countries and be born and raised "Christian." Now it is less possible.
I was speaking about them being martyred...but will let it go now.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#58

Beautiful post. Tried to give you "rep" but it wouldn't let me. Thank you for this post Trucker62 and I hope many will take it into consideration when they think of Job. God did not send satan after Job. No more than He sends the evil one after us today.

God is good and He sent His Son Jesus to get us out of the mess., not to send Jesus to get us only 1/2 out. We fight against evil.,
using the sword of the Spirit (the Spirit and the Word) we don't embrace evil as a gift or lesson from God. We need to know what the truth is and who our enemy is and what our enemy uses against us. Be ready with the truth so we can refute the lies of the enemy. God is good and gives us good gifts. satan is evil and sends us bad things.

I agree and if others want to think differently - they have their own free will.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. John in 1 John 3:18 says "The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."

God is not getting satan to destroy people for Him and then to come afterward to save them. Our minds will not trust someone with this kind of behavior.

The Lord has said that the earth He has given into the hands of men. We have authority on this earth and if we allow something - it will be allowed - "which is on of the reasons that Jesus is called the Son of Man". He now has all authority in earth and in heaven. He is Lord of all.

Psalm 115:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men.

Remember - "everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of truth."

Here is a great article if anyone is interested in it concerning Job. I found it funny that Job said that he only spoke what he heard about God but in Chapter 42 he said now that he didn't know God as He really was.

Is Satan God’s Sheepdog?

The Book of Job is one of the most amazing stories in the Bible, but we read it wrong two ways. First, we elevate Job into some kind of faith hero. Second, we think the devil is a sheepdog sent by the Lord to do his dirty work. This crazy notion is based on the following passage:

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:8-12)

The traditional interpretation is that the Lord set Job up for disaster by dangling him in front of the devil like a marshal might dangle a convict’s shirt in front of a bloodhound.

“You smell Job, boy? You smell his good works and how much he hates evil?”
“Grrrr. Grrrr.”

“Get him, boy! Go! Rip his life apart!”

What a terrible portrayal of our heavenly Father!

According to the traditional view there is no difference between God and Satan. The devil did the deed, but God was a collaborator. God permitted it. He “allowed” it to happen.

Thankfully, this is one of those times where something is lost in translation. Let’s read those verses again in a word-for-word translation such as Green’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV):

And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil? (Job 1:8, LITV)

In other words, “Satan, why are you gunning for Job? Is it because he’s a good guy? Is it because he won’t fall for your evil schemes?”

Do you see? God isn’t setting Job up at all. He’s letting Satan know that he’s onto him. “I’m watching you, Satan.” The Lord is not unaware of the devil’s schemes.

The fact is, Satan was gunning for Job. Not only did Satan want to hurt Job, he wanted the Lord to do it! Look at what Satan says:

Stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face. (Job 1:11)

The audacity of this schemer! How brazen! First the accuser tries to manipulate God: “Job only fears you because you’ve put a hedge about him and blessed him” (verses 9-10). Then he dares the Lord to strike this good man Job! Of course, the Lord isn’t about to fall for Satan’s tricks, yet verse 12 seems to suggest he does.

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power…” (Job 1:12)

At first glance it seems that God has just been conned by the devil into giving him permission to go after Job. Really? And we fall for that? Or worse, we think the Lord would fall for it?! Let’s read that verse in a literal translation:

And Jehovah said to Satan, Behold, all that is his is in your hand! Only, do not lay your hand on him. And Satan went out from the face of Jehovah. (Job 1:12, LITV)

The Lord is not giving Satan permission; he’s stating a fact. Job was already under Satan’s thumb. Why does the Lord say that? Because of this:

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)

As Tom Tompkins explains in his book, Understanding the Book of Job, God gave control of the earth to man…


The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)

but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:

Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

I like to use this website sometimes because it has a place at the bottom where we can ask questions and sometimes I learn from this area too for things to consider. Here is the link if anyone is interested in this subject. Enjoy.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/28/is-satan-gods-sheepdog/#prettyPhoto
 
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Apr 4, 2017
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#59
Huh interesting,, so could you elaborate on the refines and persecutes of people?

Also is there anything else God does to or for people?
I know a current pastor that recently took his first church. He was called 2 years ago, but was sent into that call just a few months ago...as soon as he answered the call, his wife was violently attacked in her body by infection....She walked through it and is now just fine....He lost a very good paying job....his wife now has a better job than he ever had and the church is also going to be paying him a full salary...when he lost his job they lost their house, cars and everything....he never claimed bankruptcy.....they now have better cars, better house, etc....they endured harsh criticism from friends and family and some family separated from them for his answering the call...they also endured many "Christians" belittling them for having no faith when they lost everything, they were also told that they did something to make the enemy attack them so bad...the were lied about and slandered....

So were these well placed attacks of the enemy?

-or-

Were they refinements to prepare him for service as a Pastor by refining and testing his faith that God would heal his wife? Lost their only income and everything they owned so they could learn to trust God to provide everything they need? They came to discern between friend and foe and that to serve God involves sacrificing friends, family and even their name...

They learned God is faithful through the refinement and they are blessed more than they ever have been....

God has to know he can trust you and have the character for him to have faith in the call he has placed on your life...before he sends, he refines....I think this answers both questions...

Likewise, I know some other people called who could not endure the refinements or character persecutions and dropped out of the call....

On the surface it might appear as a unmitigated attack by Satan, but upon closer inspection...it was refinement for the trails he will face as a Pastor...he is a fine young pastor and is ready for the tares and wolves he will face...
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#60
uh, is scripture...Jesus said this to Peter. But, am sure you know this. Facetious?
Hehehe, yes I do, I find it humorous though sad that is conveniently left out (Simon Simon).. it takes on a whole new meaning without that..

To many times folks like to leave things off and they assume the scriptures identity...