My thoughts on Job (thus far)

[dcontroversal]

One thing about Job that stands out to me is the friends of Job all take their turn and rake Job over the coals in various forms and fashion......LASTLY the YOUNGEST of the whole group, which actually waits his turn to speak give his view on the whole debacle.....and the funny thing....GOD rebukes everyone of them except the YOUNGEST, including JOB.......there is a lesson to be learned here.....SOMETIMES the oldest are not always right.....just a point to ponder.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

it also makes sense they were deep into thinking sickness and any calamity was Gods response to sin. Because of the closeness of the biggest calamity on earth cause as punishment for mans sin.

Good point...!

 

[Miri]

I love the last few chapters of Job, it sort of puts everything into
perspective, regardless of what is going on in life.

This song is based on the last few chapters.


[video]https://youtu.be/NqMYHmoXMAQ[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I love the last few chapters of Job, it sort of puts everything into
perspective, regardless of what is going on in life.

This song is based on the last few chapters.


[video]https://youtu.be/NqMYHmoXMAQ[/video]

Love that song, did not know they were related. Thanks for the info, I will see the song differently now

 

[Nehemiah6]

One thing I dont understand and hope someone can explain is what did Jobs friends do wrong? I thought they all made good points

You are quite correct. Neither Job nor his friends believed that the righteous would suffer without cause. They all believed that God reserved afflictions for the unrighteous and only blessings for the righteous. Thus when they saw how greatly Job had been afflicted and lost everything, Job could certainly not understand this, and after his friends spent a little time in commiseration, they all assumed that Job had sinned greatly and should turn away from sinning. But Job knew that he was innocent and so he presented his case.

However, God's purpose for having this historical narrative in Scripture was to teach all His people that the righteous will suffer greatly in this life, while the unrighteous may prosper and have a wonderful life. But ultimately the righteous will receive their just reward, as Job received his. There is absolutely no question that God regarding Job as a very righteous man as well as a man of faith. But there is another major lesson in Job, which is that God is sovereign at all times, and not accountable to any man for His seemingly illogical actions.

 

[Deade]

Some examples of faith during adversity, like Job, are given in the Book of Daniel. The whole country of Judah had been dismantled and living as slaves in Babylon. The King wants worship so he orders the slaves to bow to a big statue of him.

Daniel 3:16-18: "Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up."

Wow! Can you imagine? My God can but He might not: I will still praise Him even if I burn. That is faith!

 

[dcontroversal]

Some examples of faith during adversity, like Job, are given in the Book of Daniel. The whole country of Judah had been dismantled and living as slaves in Babylon. The King wants worship so he orders the slaves to bow to a big statue of him.

Daniel 3:16-18: "Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up."

Wow! Can you imagine? My God can but He might not: I will still praise Him even if I burn. That is faith!

View attachment 178828

Indeed......

 

[joefizz]

really good thoughts.


its strange the elihu, is not reprimanded with jobs other 3 friends. elihu recognizes thier fallacy, and points it out to Job by contrasting the thingsthey have fed Him. i too see elihu as sent of God , and a mediator for Jobs emotional thoughts of despair. elihu actually brings job close to humility, and then God speaks when Job is prepared. which teaches Job the lesson.

also showing Gods goodness in that in all Job said from his Hurt, God didnt count it against Him. but still held Him in the same High regard as when the book began. Job in some aspects was Learning of Gods grace.

It's not strange at all,Elihu spoke truth for God and Job's other friends didn't simple after you look it over.

 

[joefizz]

Perhaps they didn't come to gawk but to observe the 7 day mourning of his kids?

Timeline for Jewish Traditions in Death and Mourning

An interesting point.

 

[Angela53510]

I'd like to share my thoughts on Job particularly his friends,it to me was pretty unfriend like of them to just "sit there and stare" at Job for so long in my opinion I understand he had boils from head to toe but come on if a friend is down you ought to cheer them up or at least talk to them.

In fact, in this culture, the ancient Near East culture, what they did by sitting there in the beginning, was to totally respect Job. They were being compassionate and suffering with him. That is what they did, in that time. The problem was that they didn't wait long enough. They got tired, and started accusing Job of things he did not do! That is where they went wrong, not sitting quietly with him.

In fact, even today, when doing chaplain work with those who are sick or dying, we learn to be "present." That means not to talk, certainly not to accuse, or "cheer up" but to be there, when the person wants to talk. I was very unsure about this idea, till I tried it a few times, and it amazingly worked so well.

So, perhaps a life principle, for everyone, in the end, not just about culture!

 

[joefizz]

In fact, in this culture, the ancient Near East culture, what they did by sitting there in the beginning, was to totally respect Job. They were being compassionate and suffering with him. That is what they did, in that time. The problem was that they didn't wait long enough. They got tired, and started accusing Job of things he did not do! That is where they went wrong, not sitting quietly with him.

In fact, even today, when doing chaplain work with those who are sick or dying, we learn to be "present." That means not to talk, certainly not to accuse, or "cheer up" but to be there, when the person wants to talk. I was very unsure about this idea, till I tried it a few times, and it amazingly worked so well.

So, perhaps a life principle, for everyone, in the end, not just about culture!

Well my view on things at least got the ball rolling so Monnkai could learn a bit of what was going on with Job and his friends.

 

[Miri]

In fact, in this culture, the ancient Near East culture, what they did by sitting there in the beginning, was to totally respect Job. They were being compassionate and suffering with him. That is what they did, in that time. The problem was that they didn't wait long enough. They got tired, and started accusing Job of things he did not do! That is where they went wrong, not sitting quietly with him.

In fact, even today, when doing chaplain work with those who are sick or dying, we learn to be "present." That means not to talk, certainly not to accuse, or "cheer up" but to be there, when the person wants to talk. I was very unsure about this idea, till I tried it a few times, and it amazingly worked so well.

So, perhaps a life principle, for everyone, in the end, not just about culture!

Thats interesting as we always feel like we should fill the gaps with talking.

 

[Angela53510]

"Though he slay me, I will hope in him;
yet I will argue my ways to his face." Job 13:15

I have always loved the first part of this verse, just realized there is a second part! And I love it! It means that when bad things, happen, we can take it to God. For years, I was terrified to be angry at God, although God knew my heart better than I did, in this matter. So, when things were bad, I would bottle it up inside, and become depressed. It was so much better when I finally realized I was not going to lose my salvation, because I dared argue with God, about the injustices I felt were in my life!

As for Job, he was my best buddy for a long time. After I had my foot reconstructed, the pain was terrible. In the car, on the way home from the hospital, God spoke to me, and told me to read the book of Job, because I was "going to need it."

So, I opened up Job that night. (I had read it many times before, but never when I was suffering so much!) I found a man, that was hurting, had his life dismantled, but yet, he still had hope in God.

And what a God! Chapters 38-41 are God speaking to Job, about who he is. (Elihu also praised God in chapter 37). God details some of the things he has done, in majestic language! Here is a tiny sample.

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:4-7

So, although I think this whole book is essential for doctrine, for understanding that we will suffer in this life, and it is not necessarily because we have sinned, and Job was an amazing man, the friends, not so much, what is this book really about?

It is about God! It is about not just what God does, but who he is. He is sovereign, he is the creator, he gives life and he takes it away.

"Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will leave this life.
The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away.
Praise the name of Yahweh." Job 1:21 HSCB

But, the reason I think it is about God, is because God never explains himself to Job. Why? Because he doesn't have to! He is God! I think that is why so many wonder about this book, especially the long speeches of the 3 friends. What is this book trying to say?

It is saying that God is totally in control. The devil cannot harm us, unless God permits or allows us. And bad things do happen, but God will work them out for good.

"And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose," Romans 8:28

When we love God, he is always working in our life, no matter what people say!

PS. If you are having trouble getting through the middle, just skip to Chapters 37-41 and read about God. Those chapters are amazing! But do try and read the whole thing, if you have not. And kudos to Monnkai for starting this thread!

 

[Angela53510]

Thats interesting as we always feel like we should fill the gaps with talking.

Miri, I am the worst with that! I tell you, being a chaplain was a real learning experience for me. And probably I need to practice that a lot more! Or maybe go back to volunteering as a chaplain again? That was such rewarding work!

 

[posthuman]

they were most Likely right with God because Job was sacrificing and praying for them every day, intercession. wich is the same thing he says for Job to do to reconcile his 3 friends making atonement for them. as He had been doing daily for His Kids.

i do hope that everyone who i pray for is found acceptable by Him; it is in fact my prayer.

but i do not presume that my own prayers save others or confer righteousness to them. if i pray for all peoples, do i effect universal salvation?

it's a nice thought, but it doesn't hold much weight. particularly what you initially said, that they must have been saved because otherwise God wouldn't allow them to die.

interestingly my wife and i were talking about this just a few months ago, actually - and she's of the opinion that Job's children were not righteous. Job, after all, thinks he'd better sacrifice for them. and what are they doing when they're killed? partying. no particular holiday mentioned, just partying.
her opinion is that God blessed Job with righteous children after his trial, and that his first brood were not. she takes exactly the opposite stance that you took - that their deaths are justified precisely because they were wicked, not good.

as for me, God is justified to do with any of His creation as He pleases. He may bless or He may destroy the righteous or the wicked, and He is just. isn't this what Job himself concludes?

 

[Monnkai]

"Though he slay me, I will hope in him;
yet I will argue my ways to his face." Job 13:15

I have always loved the first part of this verse, just realized there is a second part! And I love it! It means that when bad things, happen, we can take it to God. For years, I was terrified to be angry at God, although God knew my heart better than I did, in this matter. So, when things were bad, I would bottle it up inside, and become depressed. It was so much better when I finally realized I was not going to lose my salvation, because I dared argue with God, about the injustices I felt were in my life!

As for Job, he was my best buddy for a long time. After I had my foot reconstructed, the pain was terrible. In the car, on the way home from the hospital, God spoke to me, and told me to read the book of Job, because I was "going to need it."

So, I opened up Job that night. (I had read it many times before, but never when I was suffering so much!) I found a man, that was hurting, had his life dismantled, but yet, he still had hope in God.

And what a God! Chapters 38-41 are God speaking to Job, about who he is. (Elihu also praised God in chapter 37). God details some of the things he has done, in majestic language! Here is a tiny sample.

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:4-7

So, although I think this whole book is essential for doctrine, for understanding that we will suffer in this life, and it is not necessarily because we have sinned, and Job was an amazing man, the friends, not so much, what is this book really about?

It is about God! It is about not just what God does, but who he is. He is sovereign, he is the creator, he gives life and he takes it away.

"Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will leave this life.
The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away.
Praise the name of Yahweh." Job 1:21 HSCB

But, the reason I think it is about God, is because God never explains himself to Job. Why? Because he doesn't have to! He is God! I think that is why so many wonder about this book, especially the long speeches of the 3 friends. What is this book trying to say?

It is saying that God is totally in control. The devil cannot harm us, unless God permits or allows us. And bad things do happen, but God will work them out for good.

"And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose," Romans 8:28

When we love God, he is always working in our life, no matter what people say!

PS. If you are having trouble getting through the middle, just skip to Chapters 37-41 and read about God. Those chapters are amazing! But do try and read the whole thing, if you have not. And kudos to Monnkai for starting this thread!

I finished it last night and I was quite happy with the ending. Funny the old unsaved me would have thought it was a horrible book. What God did to Job and I would have been afraid it would happen to me. Now I understand the Lord is just! In everything.

 

[posthuman]

In fact, in this culture, the ancient Near East culture, what they did by sitting there in the beginning, was to totally respect Job. They were being compassionate and suffering with him. That is what they did, in that time. The problem was that they didn't wait long enough. They got tired, and started accusing Job of things he did not do! That is where they went wrong, not sitting quietly with him.

In fact, even today, when doing chaplain work with those who are sick or dying, we learn to be "present." That means not to talk, certainly not to accuse, or "cheer up" but to be there, when the person wants to talk. I was very unsure about this idea, till I tried it a few times, and it amazingly worked so well.

So, perhaps a life principle, for everyone, in the end, not just about culture!

there is a similar custom among the Native Americans where i grew up;
while the 'peace pipe' is being passed, those partaking remain silent. it is faux-pas to speak before it's extinguished, once it's lit.

a very wise practice, to spend time contemplating before one ever opens ones mouth

 

[followjesus]

You are quite correct. Neither Job nor his friends believed that the righteous would suffer without cause. They all believed that God reserved afflictions for the unrighteous and only blessings for the righteous. Thus when they saw how greatly Job had been afflicted and lost everything, Job could certainly not understand this, and after his friends spent a little time in commiseration, they all assumed that Job had sinned greatly and should turn away from sinning. But Job knew that he was innocent and so he presented his case.

However, God's purpose for having this historical narrative in Scripture was to teach all His people that the righteous will suffer greatly in this life, while the unrighteous may prosper and have a wonderful life. But ultimately the righteous will receive their just reward, as Job received his. There is absolutely no question that God regarding Job as a very righteous man as well as a man of faith. But there is another major lesson in Job, which is that God is sovereign at all times, and not accountable to any man for His seemingly illogical actions.

excellent stuff bro.


the ideations they offered was the error. it was erroneous, some of what they say, is incorrect, but mostly they have good things to say, they are wrong from the start because they have assumed the righteous would never suffer such an event. Job actually to me, sort of gets it right away when his wife tells Him to do what satan was trying to get Him to do


job 2 " Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. 10But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips."

it seems as if job has accepted whatever happened and is simply feeling the loss we feel when a tradgedy happens of such magnitude, Job wants the release of death at this point, but He has already acknowledged both good and bad come of God. and Whop is He to judge God, but simply he accepts it Knowing He has not caused it. then everyone else is sort of just wrong even His wife who is actually parroting what satn said Job would do " curse God to His face"


Jobs integrity is put to the test through the book, He sticks with God, is answered By God, and is redeemed and blessed by God to have even More than He lost. Job is tested in many ways, Mostly with explaianations of why he has obviously sinned or else this would not be happneing.

His friends have good in what they are saying its the ideation that is erroneous, it begins in error assuming Job has sinned greatly and needs to repent. Job seems to me to have a good grasp from the get go and then His friends argue Him that He needs to repent. Job goes through the sorrows and arguments anger, and finally repents of all hes been dragged into by His friends, and listens to God and is restored after he keeps His integrity even thoiugh he seems undignified at times. we have to remember He was a man who just lost all of His children. had lost all of his things, and even Lost His health.

God is not without sympathy and understanding of our struggles and our feelings when we endure such trial.

 

[followjesus]

i do hope that everyone who i pray for is found acceptable by Him; it is in fact my prayer.

but i do not presume that my own prayers save others or confer righteousness to them. if i pray for all peoples, do i effect universal salvation?

it's a nice thought, but it doesn't hold much weight. particularly what you initially said, that they must have been saved because otherwise God wouldn't allow them to die.

interestingly my wife and i were talking about this just a few months ago, actually - and she's of the opinion that Job's children were not righteous. Job, after all, thinks he'd better sacrifice for them. and what are they doing when they're killed? partying. no particular holiday mentioned, just partying.
her opinion is that God blessed Job with righteous children after his trial, and that his first brood were not. she takes exactly the opposite stance that you took - that their deaths are justified precisely because they were wicked, not good.

as for me, God is justified to do with any of His creation as He pleases. He may bless or He may destroy the righteous or the wicked, and He is just. isn't this what Job himself concludes?

bro God has worked by intercession always through the bible. even Now when you sin, you still Have One interceeding on your Behalf. Moses interceded for the people, God responded. abram interceeded for people and God responded, Jesus interceded for all people and God responded.

why would you then have an issue, with Job the perfect and upright man, interceeding for His children and assume God would not respond? God doesnt change, intercession is why anyone can be saved. daniel interceded for israel, most every prophet did actually and God res[ponds every time.


i would still hold that Most Likely, God honered Jobs intercession as He has always done to the righteous who interceed on behalf of sinners ( by the way we dont even Know they were terrible sinners or anything, all we Know is they were jobs children and He daily made SACRIFICE for them, he shed blood daily just incase they might have sinned somehow.

theres no reason to think they werent right with God at all.

 

[Ariel82]

i think its interesting the question from Job that Elihu does answers:

1. Why is God silent?

Elihu says GOD IS NOT SILENT but speaks to men while they sleep in dreams to turn us from our sins and sometimes while we are sick and almost dying. A Mediator can give a ransom and save the dying man ( another prophecy of a Messiah that saves people from their sins)

2. Why does God not punish the wicked? Does He even notices their actions? does it matter what we do?

Elihu says that God does not respect rich or poor, kings or beggars. He sees all and IS JUST. That Job should not wish for the wicked to be punished but be thankful for God's mercy to us all.

i will have to reread because i can't recall the third point but I do know how Elihu notices the thunderstorm and knows that it is God approaching.