Never lose salvation?

[eternally-gratefull]

It is simple. People make it so difficult.

1. Eternal life means life forever. Means what Jesus said in John 6. They will never die (not physical death, as all who were given eternal life in Christs day died physically)

2. If eternal life is not forever. it must be earned. That based salvation based on our power and ability, and not God grace and forgiveness based on mercy..

in the first point. People who say eternal is not forever. make God a liar

in the second point. People are making people who can NEVER earn salvation. earn it base on things they do (or do not do) making them boast of earning their salvation (not of works lest ANY MAN should boast)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I ask you about salvation, can we lose salvation??

If you can lose it.

1. It must be earned, and is not given by Grace
2. It is not eternal. Meaning God lied
3. It is based on you works, and not the work of God
4. When Christ said, "it is finished" he lied, Because in reality, He should have said "I did my part. now you must do yours"


I can go on and on and on. But hopefully you see the point.

 

[The_highwayman]

If you can lose it.

1. It must be earned, and is not given by Grace
2. It is not eternal. Meaning God lied
3. It is based on you works, and not the work of God
4. When Christ said, "it is finished" he lied, Because in reality, He should have said "I did my part. now you must do yours"


I can go on and on and on. But hopefully you see the point.

. When Christ said, "it is finished" he lied, Because in reality, He should have said "I did my part. now you must do yours"

Why on earth do you think he said pick up your cross and follow me?!?!? Jesus tells us in revelations we must overcome as he did...
Put down the fill in the blank sunday school lesson from sister oh so spiritual and open your eyes. You dont lose your slavtion, but you can certainly walk away from it.

 

[The_highwayman]

You don't earn salvation at all, it is God's gift, but you can having tasted of it walk away from it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You don't earn salvation at all, it is God's gift, but you can having tasted of it walk away from it.

No. Then you would earn it by not walking away from it.

John said those who walk away were never of us, if they were, they never would have left.

People can claim to be Christian (tast it) and later walk away, But they did not walk away and lose it. they walk away for they never had it. If they did have it, they never would have walked away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

. When Christ said, "it is finished" he lied, Because in reality, He should have said "I did my part. now you must do yours"

Why on earth do you think he said pick up your cross and follow me?!?!? Jesus tells us in revelations we must overcome as he did...

Lol. He was not talking about salvation. He was talking about experiencing the kingdom of God to our fullest. And not remaining babies in Christ.

Put down the fill in the blank sunday school lesson from sister oh so spiritual and open your eyes. You dont lose your slavtion, but you can certainly walk away from it.

Better yet. Put your pride aside, Thinking you can walk away, When Jesus himself said he would come and get all lost sheep, and return them to the flock.

Have faith in God, and stop trusting yourself.

 

[john832]

If you can lose it.

1. It must be earned, and is not given by Grace
2. It is not eternal. Meaning God lied
3. It is based on you works, and not the work of God
4. When Christ said, "it is finished" he lied, Because in reality, He should have said "I did my part. now you must do yours"


I can go on and on and on. But hopefully you see the point.

1) That is a pretty massive jump there. Just because you can lose something does not mean you have earned it in the beginning. I have been given things (money, pocket knife, etc.) and have lost them. Didn't earn 'em, but I lost 'em.

2) Hmmm, and when are people made eternal? At the resurrection...

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

And when is this?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

After the resurrection, when a person is made immortal, they cannot die, but until then we are mortal just as Paul says.

3) God gives eternal life to whom?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God requires certain conditions to be met to receive the Holy Spirit, the seal we are given until the day of redemption. God does not give salvation to all? That is universal salvation and the scripture teaches that there are those who experience the second death. God sets conditions on eternal life. So salvation is given to some. How is that decided? By meeting the conditions God has set.

4) What was finished? The entire plan of God? If that is the case, why did time go on? Why is there a return, a millenium, a white throne judgment and a new heavens and new earth? Because what was finished was the perfect sacrifice for sin. That is what Christ finished.

 

[Careen]

absolutely ,yes ! people can lose their salvation

15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled.(Hebrews 12:15)


3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him (Hebrews 2:3)

10 for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica—Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.(2 Timothy 4:10)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1) That is a pretty massive jump there. Just because you can lose something does not mean you have earned it in the beginning. I have been given things (money, pocket knife, etc.) and have lost them. Didn't earn 'em, but I lost 'em.

No, it is not a massive jump. even paul warned against people who claim to earn it by the spirit, yet need to perfect it by their own deeds. And he calls them fools. Why would he do this, if it were not so?

So your going to compare the seal of the spirit, which is done in the power of God, and is the guarantee of our inheritance to losing money out of your pocket? Wow..

Tell me, How can you break a seal of God. what makes you more powerful than him?

2) Hmmm, and when are people made eternal? At the resurrection..

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

And when is this?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

After the resurrection, when a person is made immortal, they cannot die, but until then we are mortal just as Paul says.

Then why does God and the apostles say we HAVE (perfect tense) eternal life.
Why does Jesus say we will live forever, and never die? (john 6) once we partake of his flesh. and not after we die.

Why are you trying to earn Gods gift? and what makes you think you are any better than the pharisees who did the same thing?

3) God gives eternal life to whom?

You answered your own question.


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We also see in john 3. Whoever believes in him. HAS eternal life. In John 6. Whoever believes in him will live forever, never die, be raised by him, and have eternal life. we have in Johns epistle. that we can KNOW WE have eternal life. How can we know we have it, if it has not yet been given.

The day of redemption is the day of the ressurection. When our salvation becomes reality. That is why we need the seal of the spirit. to hold us in Gods arms until that day, Because until then, we are still sinners. who are sealed by the spirit.

God requires certain conditions to be met to receive the Holy Spirit, the seal we are given until the day of redemption. God does not give salvation to all? That is universal salvation and the scripture teaches that there are those who experience the second death. God sets conditions on eternal life. So salvation is given to some. How is that decided? By meeting the conditions God has set.

He requires one condition.

believe on the name of Jesus and you will be saved. Have faith in him, and you will be saved. Adding anything else to this is a different gospel. Which paul says should be anathema'd

4) What was finished? The entire plan of God? If that is the case, why did time go on? Why is there a return, a millenium, a white throne judgment and a new heavens and new earth? Because what was finished was the perfect sacrifice for sin. That is what Christ finished.

lol. what was finished was the plan of salvation. Thus nothing you said makes any sense according to the topic at hand.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

absolutely ,yes ! people can lose their salvation

15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled.(Hebrews 12:15)


3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him (Hebrews 2:3)

10 for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica—Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.(2 Timothy 4:10)

the assumption is those people were saved. That is a prety huge assumption. especially when John says those who depart were NEVER OF US, for if they had been of us, they never would have departed.

people seem to forget this hugely important passage which proves those who claim to know Christ and his word, and then deny Christ. were never saved. ever, They did not lose salvation. you can;t lose what you do not have.

 

[The_highwayman]

No. Then you would earn it by not walking away from it.

John said those who walk away were never of us, if they were, they never would have left.

People can claim to be Christian (tast it) and later walk away, But they did not walk away and lose it. they walk away for they never had it. If they did have it, they never would have walked away.

Eternal salvation and OSAS doctrines violate FREE WILL. Oh and stop with the foolishness that they were never saved to begin with!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal salvation and OSAS doctrines violate FREE WILL. Oh and stop with the foolishness that they were never saved to begin with!

no it does not, it is based on freewill. and true faith not mere belief.

foolish huh?

[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I am sure john appreciates his words being called foolish!

 

[The_highwayman]

the assumption is those people were saved. That is a prety huge assumption. especially when John says those who depart were NEVER OF US, for if they had been of us, they never would have departed.

people seem to forget this hugely important passage which proves those who claim to know Christ and his word, and then deny Christ. were never saved. ever, They did not lose salvation. you can;t lose what you do not have.

Eternally-grateful:
How do you explain re-dedicating your life to Jesus Christ, that is so prominent, in certain Protestant denominations like the Baptists and Methodists?

So are those that have eternal security that hit the altar every 3 months to rededicate their lives getting resaved or are they also ones that were never saved.

Something to ponder:
If a man and woman get married and things are great for the first 2 years, but then the husband starts coming home late every night and only gives his wife affection with no real love behind it. The wife begins to wonder whats going on, but still loves him with all her heart and forgives him.

Another year goes by and not only is he coming home late and now out with his friends every Saturday. Affection is now lifeless pecks on the check, no hugs, no holding hands, intimacy is stale and forced. The wife is now concerned about what is going on, but refuses to change herself and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.


Another year goes by and he now comes home only every few days and when he does come home, he no longer shares the bed with her, but sleeps in the spare bedroom, the weekend see now trace of him. All affection and intimacy is now gone. The wife is now determined to reach out more than ever to save him, , but refuses to change herself, but does anything and everything to show the husband her dedication, love, understanding and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.

Another year goes by and he has been home maybe once a month and he tells her how much he hates her and how the affection and intimacy they shared was foolishness and she is not pretty anymore and does nothing but suffocate, frustrate, confuse and anger him.

Yet, The wife is now determined to reach out more than ever to save him, , but refuses to change herself, but does anything and everything to show the husband her dedication, love, understanding and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.

Another year goes by and the wife is now alone and forsaken and heart broken over the divorce petition she received.

-BUT-

The wife is still determined to reach out more than ever to save him, but refuses to change herself, but does anything and everything to show the husband her dedication, love, understanding and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.

All her attempts are futile and void, the former husband now has another woman in his life and living his way and realizes she will never be able to save him. The wife still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him, however she begins to stop certain attempts at making contact.

Another year goes by and the wife and not any of their family and former friends have had any response to the attempts to recall the husband, in fact the only thing the husband shows is resentment, fear, anger and rebellion and tells his former wife to get out of his life. The wife still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him, however she stops and tells others to stop ALL attempts at making contact with her former husband.

Another few years roll by and the husband has lost it all and comes with hat in hand to his first wife, who still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him. The husband is a changed man, the years of living his way has put a toll on him. The husband attempts to pick up right where he left off in the first 2 years of his marriage to her.

The Wife stops him cold and while she still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him, says: These are the conditions: There will never be any more women in your life but me and you will serve only me and you must love me with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might! In return for you adhering to those conditions I will also abide in you!

Do you abide by these conditions!?!?, The wife has never lost her love for her first husband and continued and continues to forgive him. The husband is licking his lips and then tears begin to well up in her eyes as she catches her husband looking behind himself and turns and leaves and never again returns.

The wife never stopped loving her husband and she continued to forgive him regardless of his choices.

Luke 9.62-
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

 

[The_highwayman]

what most of you eternal security and OSAS believers fail to see and have never been taught is 2 fold.

1) FREE WILL

2)God is a God of Covenants and that has never and will never change, because God is the same yesterday, today and forever and he changes not!

Heads will explode now, but its Bible people!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what most of you eternal security and OSAS believers fail to see and have never been taught is 2 fold.

1) FREE WILL

Free will. One must chose to freely trust Christ. Or to reject him.. Those are the only two options.

2)God is a God of Covenants and that has never and will never change, because God is the same yesterday, today and forever and he changes not!

Heads will explode now, but its Bible people!

Yep. he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

Salvation has ALWAYS been by faith apart from works. It has always been his covenant with mankind. One covenant, eternal in nature, from before even the foundation of the world.

Yeah, heads will explode. When people like you get to heaven, and find out your works did not save you. And since you trusted in self and your ability, and your works, and not the work of Christ. God will say he never knew you.

I have the spirit of adoption. Your still living under the spirit of fear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally-grateful:
How do you explain re-dedicating your life to Jesus Christ, that is so prominent, in certain Protestant denominations like the Baptists and Methodists?

I do not know. I am a non denominational. I don;t go around looking at what others teach.

Maybe it is like what David did? He understood sacrifice and burnt offering could not save him (God did not desire) admit your mistake, and move on?

Maybe it is like the prodigal son (who never stopped being the son) returning to his fathers house, Because he realised what he was missing?

So are those that have eternal security that hit the altar every 3 months to rededicate their lives getting resaved or are they also ones that were never saved.

I would not know. I have never went to the alter. My body is the temple. I speak to God where I am.

religion is not of God.

Something to ponder:
If a man and woman get married and things are great for the first 2 years, but then the husband starts coming home late every night and only gives his wife affection with no real love behind it. The wife begins to wonder whats going on, but still loves him with all her heart and forgives him.

Another year goes by and not only is he coming home late and now out with his friends every Saturday. Affection is now lifeless pecks on the check, no hugs, no holding hands, intimacy is stale and forced. The wife is now concerned about what is going on, but refuses to change herself and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.


Another year goes by and he now comes home only every few days and when he does come home, he no longer shares the bed with her, but sleeps in the spare bedroom, the weekend see now trace of him. All affection and intimacy is now gone. The wife is now determined to reach out more than ever to save him, , but refuses to change herself, but does anything and everything to show the husband her dedication, love, understanding and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.

Another year goes by and he has been home maybe once a month and he tells her how much he hates her and how the affection and intimacy they shared was foolishness and she is not pretty anymore and does nothing but suffocate, frustrate, confuse and anger him.

Yet, The wife is now determined to reach out more than ever to save him, , but refuses to change herself, but does anything and everything to show the husband her dedication, love, understanding and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.

Another year goes by and the wife is now alone and forsaken and heart broken over the divorce petition she received.

-BUT-

The wife is still determined to reach out more than ever to save him, but refuses to change herself, but does anything and everything to show the husband her dedication, love, understanding and continues to still love him with all her heart and still forgives him.

All her attempts are futile and void, the former husband now has another woman in his life and living his way and realizes she will never be able to save him. The wife still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him, however she begins to stop certain attempts at making contact.

Another year goes by and the wife and not any of their family and former friends have had any response to the attempts to recall the husband, in fact the only thing the husband shows is resentment, fear, anger and rebellion and tells his former wife to get out of his life. The wife still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him, however she stops and tells others to stop ALL attempts at making contact with her former husband.

Another few years roll by and the husband has lost it all and comes with hat in hand to his first wife, who still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him. The husband is a changed man, the years of living his way has put a toll on him. The husband attempts to pick up right where he left off in the first 2 years of his marriage to her.

The Wife stops him cold and while she still loves him with all her heart and still forgives him, says: These are the conditions: There will never be any more women in your life but me and you will serve only me and you must love me with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might! In return for you adhering to those conditions I will also abide in you!

Do you abide by these conditions!?!?, The wife has never lost her love for her first husband and continued and continues to forgive him. The husband is licking his lips and then tears begin to well up in her eyes as she catches her husband looking behind himself and turns and leaves and never again returns.

The wife never stopped loving her husband and she continued to forgive him regardless of his choices.

Luke 9.62-
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

yes lets look at this example.

According to god. these people are still married. Nothing can break this marraige.
The wife her represents God. And she promises

1. Even when you are faithless. i will be faithfull
2. You can leave me, But I will NEVER leave you
3. I give you my eternal devotion. And no one can pluck you out of my hands.

You also forgot a major part of this example. the husband was never chastened. He was never corrected. Who can withstand the chastening of God. In your example. they wer enever married, Because it is obvious he was never chastened, thus he was illegitiment husband and not real.

dude, I have been a prodigal son. I have been chastened.

1. I never stopped believing in Christ
2. I never came to the point I htought what I was doing was ok
3. Gods chastening. does what it always does. it brought me back. If i did not return, I would have died (sin unto death) But I still would have been saved.

Why? Because God promised he WOULD NEVER LEAVE NOR FORSAKE ME.

Stop living in fear. and be adopted by God. You will only then even begin to understand what I am saying.

 

[The_highwayman]

Free will. One must chose to freely trust Christ. Or to reject him.. Those are the only two options.



Yep. he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

Salvation has ALWAYS been by faith apart from works. It has always been his covenant with mankind. One covenant, eternal in nature, from before even the foundation of the world.

Yeah, heads will explode. When people like you get to heaven, and find out your works did not save you. And since you trusted in self and your ability, and your works, and not the work of Christ. God will say he never knew you.

I have the spirit of adoption. Your still living under the spirit of fear.

Why are you constantly missing what myself and others are saying, we have never mentioned loss, works or all the silly little unbiblical things you baptist/calvinists drum up against us.

Salvation is by grace and through faith, I am not disputing that. My works don't get me to heaven and neither can I lose it.

I have not a spirit of fear, but of love , power and sound mind and in him I live, move and have my being. I am a partaker of the divine nature. I am an adopted son, so whats your point?

And yes, it has been God's desire to regain fellowship with us since the fall.

Funny how you wont touch the question on re-dedication!

You guys are so cute when you get all flamed up.

 

[The_highwayman]

I do not know. I am a non denominational. I don;t go around looking at what others teach.

Maybe it is like what David did? He understood sacrifice and burnt offering could not save him (God did not desire) admit your mistake, and move on?

Maybe it is like the prodigal son (who never stopped being the son) returning to his fathers house, Because he realised what he was missing?




I would not know. I have never went to the alter. My body is the temple. I speak to God where I am.

religion is not of God.



yes lets look at this example.

According to god. these people are still married. Nothing can break this marraige.
The wife her represents God. And she promises

1. Even when you are faithless. i will be faithfull
2. You can leave me, But I will NEVER leave you
3. I give you my eternal devotion. And no one can pluck you out of my hands.

You also forgot a major part of this example. the husband was never chastened. He was never corrected. Who can withstand the chastening of God. In your example. they wer enever married, Because it is obvious he was never chastened, thus he was illegitiment husband and not real.

dude, I have been a prodigal son. I have been chastened.

1. I never stopped believing in Christ
2. I never came to the point I htought what I was doing was ok
3. Gods chastening. does what it always does. it brought me back. If i did not return, I would have died (sin unto death) But I still would have been saved.

Why? Because God promised he WOULD NEVER LEAVE NOR FORSAKE ME.

Stop living in fear. and be adopted by God. You will only then even begin to understand what I am saying.

Tell us about re-dedication!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why are you constantly missing what myself and others are saying, we have never mentioned loss, works or all the silly little unbiblical things you baptist/calvinists drum up against us.

1. I am not a baptist, I left that church long time ago. And no longer believe as they do.
2. I am not Calvinist. I do not believe in limited atonement.

So why do you not get off your high horse and stop labeling me something I am not.

Also,

You can say you are not working until your blue in the face, the fact remains. If you claim salvation can be lost. You are teaching a works based gospel. Because whatever work (or lack of work) you claim can cause someone to lose what is supposed to be a freely given gift. is the work of self you are basing your eternity on, and telling everyone else to base their on.

Salvation is by grace and through faith, I am not disputing that. My works don't get me to heaven and neither can I lose it.

Oh so now your backtracking. You can't lose it, But you can.. Make up your mind..

I have not a spirit of fear, but of love , power and sound mind and in him I live, move and have my being. I am a partaker of the divine nature. I am an adopted son, so whats your point?

What my point? Your telling people they can lose salvation. Thus your teaching a gospel of fear. Not love

And yes, it has been God's desire to regain fellowship with us since the fall.

Funny how you wont touch the question on re-dedication!

You guys are so cute when you get all flamed up.

Why would I touch it? I have never re-dedicated my life to God. I dedicated it in my repentance. Why would I repent over and over something I already agreed was truth?

You asked me to try to identify what it means. I can not identify what I do not know.

Your spoonfed. You prove it by claiming all who believe as I do are either baptist or calvanist. Your wrong. When you get that out of your head. and listen to what people say, You MAY be able to understand.

Unfortunately. I think you will be like many in hear. and not even confess you are wrong about that. Your pride is to high. But I pray I am wrong. Everyone has hope.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tell us about re-dedication!

Why don;t you ask a baptist, or calvanist. Or someone who teaches that.. I can;t help you. Your continued asking this question just proves you are not here to figure out what people believe, But you assume you already know. in spite of the fact you have been told otherwise.