New Muslim

[Funtastic]

And we also believe everyone dies for his own sin like in Ezekiel 18:20.

In This verse it says that the son will not die for the sins of the father if he keeps my (God's) commandments. It's only through keeping Gods commandments that generational curses don't come upon us through repentance.

 

[TheAristocat]

there is nothing removed from Quran but i guess ur talking about bible:

List of Bible verses not included in modern translations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the oral tradition there were verses of the same content that originated independently, which proves that in the early Islamic tradition these verses had already been widely accepted as part of the Qur'an. And there is even a passage in the Qur'an that Muslims use to deflect the accusation that Muhammed's revelations were false:

Sura 22:52-53 And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet except that when he spoke [or recited], satan threw into it [some misunderstanding]. But Allah abolishes that which Satan throws in; then Allah makes precise His verses. And Allah is Knowing and Wise. [That is] so He may make what Satan throws in a trial for those within whose hearts is disease and those hard of heart. And indeed, the wrongdoers are in extreme dissension.

So basically God allows Satan to corrupt Islamic revelation for a period of time so as to test those whose hearts do not want to follow what is the truth. But I'm a little confused as to what they would understand to be the truth if Allow allowed Satanic revelation to come from his prophets' mouths. Also there is a similar passage that narrows the issue and focuses on Muhammed (in my opinion):

Sura 10:37-38 And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds. Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful."

So what you have is an admittance by the Qur'an that the prophets of Allah can speak the words of Satan, and an early Islamic tradition that arose independently from multiple sources claiming to want the intercession of three pagan goddesses. In terms of what faith I believe is more trustworthy, I think Judeo-Christianity is the more suitable candidate. But then again I tend to go with those revelations that are closer to the original source than those that arise hundreds if not thousands of years later.

And if you want to believe in the original revelations of God, then no one here is going to blame you. Muslims might, but they are only human. You don't need to fear their opinions. They only deceive themselves.

The process of compiling the Qur'an into its modern form was a lengthy and messy process that involved 1. oral tradition and memorization (of which it is said by some Muslims that they had forgotten the Suras), 2. the compiling of all oral traditions, the acceptance of some traditions and rejection of others, and 3. the burning of those copies that did not conform to the final renditions of the Qur'an. I have read parts of the Qur'an, and it is a very disjointed work that often skips between topics without any transition. And I think it all makes sense when seen in the light that the Qur'an was compiled from disjointed chapters and verses that different individuals had memorized over the years (and some had forgotten).

 

[TheAristocat]

In the oral tradition there were verses of the same content that originated independently, which proves that in the early Islamic tradition these verses had already been widely accepted as part of the Qur'an. And there is even a passage in the Qur'an that Muslims use to deflect the accusation that Muhammed's revelations were false:

Sura 22:52-53 And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet except that when he spoke [or recited], satan threw into it [some misunderstanding]. But Allah abolishes that which Satan throws in; then Allah makes precise His verses. And Allah is Knowing and Wise. [That is] so He may make what Satan throws in a trial for those within whose hearts is disease and those hard of heart. And indeed, the wrongdoers are in extreme dissension.

So basically God allows Satan to corrupt Islamic revelation for a period of time so as to test those whose hearts do not want to follow what is the truth. But I'm a little confused as to what they would understand to be the truth if Allow allowed Satanic revelation to come from his prophets' mouths. Also there is a similar passage that narrows the issue and focuses on Muhammed (in my opinion):

Sura 10:37-38 And it was not [possible] for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah, but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds. Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah, if you should be truthful."

So what you have is an admittance by the Qur'an that the prophets of Allah can speak the words of Satan, and an early Islamic tradition that arose independently from multiple sources claiming to want the intercession of three pagan goddesses. In terms of what faith I believe is more trustworthy, I think Judeo-Christianity is the more suitable candidate. But then again I tend to go with those revelations that are closer to the original source than those that arise hundreds if not thousands of years later.

And if you want to believe in the original revelations of God, then no one here is going to blame you. Muslims might, but they are only human. You don't need to fear their opinions. They only deceive themselves.

The process of compiling the Qur'an into its modern form was a lengthy and messy process that involved 1. oral tradition and memorization (of which it is said by some Muslims that they had forgotten the Suras), 2. the compiling of all oral traditions, the acceptance of some traditions and rejection of others, and 3. the burning of those copies that did not conform to the final renditions of the Qur'an. I have read parts of the Qur'an, and it is a very disjointed work that often skips between topics without any transition. And I think it all makes sense when seen in the light that the Qur'an was compiled from disjointed chapters and verses that different individuals had memorized over the years (and some had forgotten).

I should also add that the tradition was excised from Sura 53:19-20. I'll post the modern rendition first and the tradition second:

Sura 53:19-20 So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza? And Manat, the third - the other one?

Sura 53:19-20 So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza? And Manat, the third - the other one? These are the exalted gharaniq, whose intercession is hoped for.

Surra 53:23, 26-27 explains the goddesses as being assigned female names and only being angels, whose intercession may or may not be profitable. But it's notable that part of the tradition was removed for whatever reason. The context appears to be the same in either rendition. The older tradition seems to be rebuking the pagans but in a way so as to say, "I understand why you believe in these goddesses, but they are only angels." While the later tradition is doing nothing but rebuking them. But I see a part of it as being removed for the sake of clarity, and because otherwise it could cause confusion among Muslims.

And then there is the tradition that Muhammad recited the Satanic verses when called upon by the pagans to appeal to them. Which in effect was like saying, "There is evidence for your goddesses. However, they are not gods but only angels." And the reason for its removal is explained as Allah effectively rebuking Mohammad. Whatever the case may be, there was an extension of this passage that was removed. And the reason for its removal is explained in such a way as to place suspicion on every word that Mohammad spoke.

 

[Osiyo]

There is a judicial process in the preaching of the Son of God that is inevitable. It is the word of life to life to them that believe, it is also the word of death, to death to them that refuse. A sharp two-edged sword.

 

[chubbena]

Do you remember why the first picture exists? The world was on the verge of a war that may have entered into a thermonuclear war. You people are amazing in your hatred.

For the sake of peace should one compromise the faith?
Or should one join hands with other faiths to pray for the goodness of whatever?
Or should one embrace idols of idol worshippers or books of false religions to show Christian love for others?
I'm just asking.

 

[ThomistColin]

For the sake of peace should one compromise the faith?
Or should one join hands with other faiths to pray for the goodness of whatever?
Or should one embrace idols of idol worshippers or books of false religions to show Christian love for others?
I'm just asking.

When the world is on the brink of total destruction, yes it is acceptable for Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Buddhists to pray together that God will interfere.

Showing kindness by kissing a book that is held as sacred, even if I do not is not wrong. If you were about to enter the home of an orthodox Jew, would you kiss the mezzuzah as a sign of kindness? I do that every time I go to a friend's house.

 

[Anonimous]

For the sake of peace should one compromise the faith?
Or should one join hands with other faiths to pray for the goodness of whatever?
Or should one embrace idols of idol worshippers or books of false religions to show Christian love for others?
I'm just asking.

nope.....................

 

[PennEd]

With the abduction of the school girls by muslims even the mainstream media is reporting on the DAILY evil perpetrated by the "religion of peace" or should I say the religion of pieces.

Sudan On Verge of Executing Christian Woman For Apostasy Unless She “Reverts” To Islam – Update: Judge Sentences Her To Death After She Refuses To Convert To Islam… | Weasel Zippers