NEW PRETRIB RAPTURE EVIDENCE!!!

[Bladerunner]

Matt 25:3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, [SUP]4 [/SUP]but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.

Now I just go accused of changing the Word of God and NOW you are saying they had extra Oil in Flasks......WHere does it say that.

 

[Bladerunner]

What kind of response is that?! Can you read? I just provided information to show you what the actual verse says. If you don't want to believe it that is your error. It's not what I believe, but what it says. You people don't even believe when you're proven wrong. You reply with ridiculous responses like you did above. How do you call the list that I provided what I believe, when you can read it for yourself?

All they had to do was read a little further down and the answer from Jesus Himself was given to them... Mat 25:13: "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

 

[Katy-follower]

Does being a virgin in those days or that matter these days sound like they are lost! That is called morality ---one of God's virtues one of the Laws of the Moses. Yes, they believed......

The foolish virgins are those who profess to be christians, but they haven't actually been born of the Spirit. Outwardly they look the part, but there's been no inner change. In every church congregation you have a mix of believers and non believers, some of which will leave it too late to be saved, and the door to the Ark will at some point close. (Yes, the world is made up of both wheat and tares, but this particular scripture is addressing the tares within the church congregation)

For me, V11-12 confirms this fact: "Afterward the other (*foolish*) virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But He answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

It says He does not know them, so they were never His. Notice He emphasizes the fact they call Him Lord... something that those in the christian world do, but He was never truly their Lord.

And then compare this scripture to this lost group mentioned here on judgment day, who professed to be christians but were never saved, and here they are trusting in their works...

Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

 

[Katy-follower]

I do believe there will be a pre tribulation rapture, but I don't agree with the "partial rapture" theory, which is the belief that some believers will be raptured while other believers are left behind. I know the partial theory misinterprets this parable of the virgins in order to support their theory. I just don't see how all 10 of the virgins are true believers. Outwardly they look the same, but 5 are missing the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Verse 5, they ALL fell asleep.

 

[dcontroversal]

Only a preterist believes this! "Under the NEW Covenant their is neither JEW nor GENTILE a they have been folded in under one banner.....JESUS is addressing HIS CHURCH in all the accounts.." The New Covenant was to the Jewish People only as were all the other covenants throughout history..

All of them (synoptic Gospels) are for the Jewish people only .... If you look real closely, in Luke 21, Jesus is teaching in the temple to no one except the Jewish people. The Bible tells us that after the fullness of the Church, God will turn his attention back to His People, Israel.

You are right in one sense. Those who believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) have only ONE Label... (the Body of Christ) whether they be Jews or Gentiles.

OOPS----Are you saying that the four winds represent earth......WRONG...throughout the Bible the Four Winds represent the Four Corners of Heaven. "the four principal or cardinal winds, hence the four corners of heaven"

Jesus is gathering His ELECT from everywhere in Heaven. The verse in the KJV actually reads...."And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

As for the tares, I will let you discern that,,, Jesus hide the real meaning of the parables for a reason....As a Pastor , you should know that?

During the Age of Law, Angels did carry the souls of those that were determined by God to be righteous (i.e. Lazarus) thus by His grace, he saved them and sent them to paradise.

No, actually someone biblical believes what I have posted.....there is neither JEW nor GENTILE under the NEW Covenant....and your whole premise above is wrong...The LAW and the PROPHETS were UNTIL JOHN.....from that time the Kingdom of GOD is proclaimed and ALL MEN are pressed into it......

You really need to spend time in prayer and study.....your missing the mark!

 

[garee]

I completely agree with everything that you wrote above, except the part about twisting scriptures to fit my own interpretation. I do and have taught the very same thing. I come to my conclusions by cross-referencing and comparing scriptures. You view it as me twisting scriptures because it doesn't match up with your positon.



One of the on-going problems within eschatology, are those who have coined the word "tribulation" as being separate from God's time of wrath, when in fact the tribulation is God's tribulation, not man's or Satan's. The seven years in which all this will take place, will be the fulfillment of God's seventy seven year periods that he decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, therefore that time period is His time of wrath, better known as the day of the Lord.

As I continue to make known, Jesus is the One who is opening the Seals and is therefore responsible for the resulting fatalites, as well as the fatalities and destruction resulting from the trumpets and bowl judgments. All of the events that take place during that time period, including the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, the plagues of the two witnesses and the beasts kingdom are all apart of the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath. After all, those last seven years are the completion of the original seventy sevens decreed in Dan.9:24-27



As usual, you are confusing the event of the gathering of the church, with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The scripture that you quoted above is from Matt.24:30 and Rev.1:7. Bot of these are in reference to the Lord's return to end the age.

The other problem associated with this is found in Matt.24:31, where because there is a great trumpet sounded, expositors pigeon whole the word "trumpet" and assign it to being the "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52. Also, when the Lord sends out his angels and they gather His elect "from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other" they interpret this as the angels gathering the church. Angels do not gather the church when the dead in Christ rise and the living are changed. It is the Lord himself who calls us up where we meet him in the air.

Those that the angels gather when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, will be those great tribulation saints and Israel who will have made it through the time of God's wrath alive and in their mortal bodies. These are those who will go into the millennial period and repopulate the earth.

Gathering of the church = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

The Lord's return to the earth to end the age = Matthew 34:29-31, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 19:11-21

Gathering of the church = takes place prior to the first seal being opened, prior to God's wrath

The Lord's return to the earth to end the age = takes place after God's wrath

The church/bride is already seen in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb, which is in heaven. Then in Rev.19:14, we see the same group following Christ out of heaven and wearing the same fine linen that she will have previously received. In order to follow the Lord out of heaven, the church would already have to be in heaven.

The bride of Christ is asleep in a heavenly place

The promise is he would come once in the flesh . Not twice.

The demonstration is over the veil remains rent .The time of refomation had come.The government of God is restored to an order before he gave in the the apostate Jews over to have a outward figurehead like kings . Like the Pagan nations of the world who must walk by sight.

The Spirit of Christ is here reigning with the saints from the perspective of the last day the day of the Lord spoken of in Revelation chapter one .

The book of Revelation is written from the standpoint of the last day in a signified form using parables to hide the spiritual understanding from those who know not Christ. .

 

[3Scoreand10]

Then I ask why did Jesus go through the motion to have the Foolish Virgins go to town and then knock on the door when Jesus answers and tells them He does not know them?????????? WHy did Jesus not simply tell them they were lost and He did not believe them when He was taking the wise virgins.

One other point...The Bible calls them the Foolish Virgins, not the Fallen Virgins. Yes sin does lead to foolishness but so does only sinning a little. The bottom line is that they were not watching for His return thus they were left behind.

Let me ask you, If you are raising HELL on the weekends, wine, women and song yet come Sunday you find the pews where you can sleep while the pastor's message is given. Will Jesus tell you He does not know you ?

Here again you are forcing the Word to say what it does not say.
Jesus never told or suggest that the 5 foolish virgins go and purchase oil, the 5 wise virgins did.
I might add that they were told to go purchase oil and left to do so before the Bridegroom came and invited the wise in.

As for as your last question, No Jesus will not tell me He does not know me because I am a child of God. I have trusted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and have eternal life.
Now if I did as you suggested on the weekend, He would no doubt chastise me as any father would a disobedient son, but I would still be His son.

It seems that you believe that a salvation is based on works rather than on Jesus.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Then I ask why did Jesus go through the motion to have the Foolish Virgins go to town and then knock on the door when Jesus answers and tells them He does not know them?????????? WHy did Jesus not simply tell them they were lost and He did not believe them when He was taking the wise virgins.

One other point...The Bible calls them the Foolish Virgins, not the Fallen Virgins. Yes sin does lead to foolishness but so does only sinning a little. The bottom line is that they were not watching for His return thus they were left behind.

Let me ask you, If you are raising HELL on the weekends, wine, women and song yet come Sunday you find the pews where you can sleep while the pastor's message is given. Will Jesus tell you He does not know you ?

Lucy-Pevensie made another point that you have seemed to have missed.
All 10 virgins had fallen asleep and had to be woke up.
So one might say that none were watching.

 

[heartofdavid]

I do believe there will be a pre tribulation rapture, but I don't agree with the "partial rapture" theory, which is the belief that some believers will be raptured while other believers are left behind. I know the partial theory misinterprets this parable of the virgins in order to support their theory. I just don't see how all 10 of the virgins are true believers. Outwardly they look the same, but 5 are missing the Holy Spirit.

Unbelivers do not have light,lamps,or the Holy Spirit,nor are they hanging out watching for Jesus with believers.
The foolish had all that.

Osas.
Osas disagrees.
The facts are the facts. Let doctrine be influnced by the word.
That is why you wrangle with that simple story

 

[heartofdavid]

Lucy-Pevensie made another point that you have seemed to have missed.
All 10 virgins had fallen asleep and had to be woke up.
So one might say that none were watching.

They all were asleep at midnight.
They were at " the pause" . The groom had delayed his coming.
When he gathers his bride some might be gathered at 3 am since it is world wide. They will be awakened.

It indicates the delay was long. Not hours,not minutes.
Days,months,years,type delay

 

[heartofdavid]

We are in that delay now.
Some are waiting with intimacy and obsession for their groom. Some are backslidden,carnal,and mechanically waiting.
Some are saved but not expecting any groom at all.
None but the oily ones go in the rapture

 

[heartofdavid]

The foolish virgins are those who profess to be christians, but they haven't actually been born of the Spirit. Outwardly they look the part, but there's been no inner change. In every church congregation you have a mix of believers and non believers, some of which will leave it too late to be saved, and the door to the Ark will at some point close. (Yes, the world is made up of both wheat and tares, but this particular scripture is addressing the tares within the church congregation)

For me, V11-12 confirms this fact: "Afterward the other (*foolish*) virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But He answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

It says He does not know them, so they were never His. Notice He emphasizes the fact they call Him Lord... something that those in the christian world do, but He was never truly their Lord.

And then compare this scripture to this lost group mentioned here on judgment day, who professed to be christians but were never saved, and here they are trusting in their works...

Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

That is another study.
The osas argument
Ironically THAT ARGUMENT needs two parables modified into rediculousness.
The 10 virgins
The produgal
Start a thread on it. I will be there to help

 

[heartofdavid]

The great tribulation of the goats on the last has nothing to do with those who would never come in condemnation. Christ sat in the judgment seat and was declared guilty for my sin. He declared it is finished nothing could hold those who graves were opened or us back other than these temporal bodies of death. He has conquered the second death. There will be no double jeopardy to those in Christ. No crucifying Christ over and over every time we deny him in faith.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The Amil position at least today works the best

Yes you would naturally think the GT, the mark,the AC,THE PLAGUES,the rapture,and the wedding supper have all passed.
All that is left is the GWT judgement,the new jerusalem, and satan unchained.for the last battle.
Flat out in left field and bizarre

 

[heartofdavid]

Verse 5, they ALL fell asleep.

What significance are you placing on that verse?

 

[3Scoreand10]

They all were asleep at midnight.
They were at " the pause" . The groom had delayed his coming.
When he gathers his bride some might be gathered at 3 am since it is world wide. They will be awakened.

It indicates the delay was long. Not hours,not minutes.
Days,months,years,type delay

You do realize that the marriage of the Lamb will not take place until after the judgment of the great whore and He has avenged the blood of His servants. So says Rev. 19.

 

[heartofdavid]

You do realize that the marriage of the Lamb will not take place until after the judgment of the great whore and He has avenged the blood of His servants. So says Rev. 19.

The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
Rev 19 says the bride has become the wife.
It will all happen in heaven. We will see it

 

[Speak2Me]

So if you believe it, no one should question it.
Same old same old. The all wise and knowing has spoken.

Surely your local church does not allow you to teach your opinions.

He says the truth & you & your buddies mock him.

This is forAhwatukee:

Psalm 119​

49Remember your word to your servant,for you have given me hope.50My comfort in my suffering is this:Your promise preserves my life.51 The arrogant mock me unmercifully,but I do not turn from your law.52I remember, Lord, your ancient laws,and I find comfort in them.

 

[Speak2Me]

Like Valley posted above.......

Matt 25:3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, [SUP]4 [/SUP]but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.

Somebody hasn't been understanding their Bible.

Matthew 25 1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2“Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3“For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5“Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6“But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7“Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8“The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’

Exegesis at its finest.

They can mock, but they can't read.

​

Typical.

 

[valleyofdecision]

They can mock, but they can't read.

​

Typical.

from your own post bro-

3“For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,

I am not with the Marine, so stop saying I am.