Why does (Jn 1:1, 1Tim 3:16, Rom 8:3) have no place in your understanding concerning God as the Word being manifest in the flesh, born in the likeness of sinful flesh , who dwelt among men and was called Emmanuel, God with us. It is not difficult to know and understand who Christ is when you have the Holy Spirit but without the Spirit man is capable of believing anything concerning who Christ was and is and shall always be.
No MAN has SEEN God at ANY time
- Thread starter Devolution
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Jesus said. If you have SEEN ME you have seen the Father.
Like Wakeup said, it is because Jesus is the IMAGE of God. Not the Father Himself, but the IMAGE of His Father. And everything Jesus did and said was also a REFLECTION of the Father and reflects HOW the Father acts and responds and how we too should strive to act and respond.
Is your shadow you? NO, it is a reflection of you. Hence MY shadow. Notice the wording, as though it was you, but it is your shadow/image, detached but still connected to you..FROM you.
And Jesus is from God, His express image SENT into the world BY God.
Like Wakeup said, it is because Jesus is the IMAGE of God. Not the Father Himself, but the IMAGE of His Father. And everything Jesus did and said was also a REFLECTION of the Father and reflects HOW the Father acts and responds and how we too should strive to act and respond.
Is your shadow you? NO, it is a reflection of you. Hence MY shadow. Notice the wording, as though it was you, but it is your shadow/image, detached but still connected to you..FROM you.
And Jesus is from God, His express image SENT into the world BY God.
God was manifest in the flesh because God dwelt IN Jesus. Just as Jesus dwells in God, just as God dwells in us, just as we dwell in God also. So that means that God MANIFESTS in US also.
So are we all God Himself too? If we understand what it is that DWELLS in us, we will also understand the scriptures relating to manifest in the flesh, if we can not understand, then we will not.
And what dwelt in Jesus was a very special manifestation of that something that did something very amazing at the beginning.
So are we all God Himself too? If we understand what it is that DWELLS in us, we will also understand the scriptures relating to manifest in the flesh, if we can not understand, then we will not.
And what dwelt in Jesus was a very special manifestation of that something that did something very amazing at the beginning.
Hi LBG,
Was going to PM you today concerning Christ in the desert, but i see Wakeup already mentioned it was an angel, representing Christ. I know you are fair minded and aren't afraid to question, so i want to show this. So for any other who see this, i want to clarify it with scripture. So the Angel was representing Christ, which means in Christs Name, which means when working under that command in the desert, for all means and purposes, that Angel "is" Christ....in His Name.
Just like embassies OPERATING in foreign lands are considered sovereign patches of ground within those lands, in other words America in Egypt etc, But Egypt is Egypt !! but we all know that those embassies are not truly America but representative of America...in her name.
Exodus 23:20
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Was this Angel the pillar of fiery smoke?
Exodus 14:19
And the Angel of God, which went before the camp, removed and went behind them, and the PILLAR of the CLOUD went from before their face, and stood behind them.
So it was actually an angel SENT on a mission...in His Name.
Cheers...
My question again..
Since Jesus was resurrected, and apparently retook His Godly form as the Father, and came back to earth to be seen by many witnesses, why then does it say NO MAN has seen God at any time?
That was written AFTER Jesus had already been seen by those witnesses?
Is this heretical to ask? Or a fair question?
Since Jesus was resurrected, and apparently retook His Godly form as the Father, and came back to earth to be seen by many witnesses, why then does it say NO MAN has seen God at any time?
That was written AFTER Jesus had already been seen by those witnesses?
Is this heretical to ask? Or a fair question?
A
at least we agree on that point.
now explain how you doctrine allows you to think Jesus is not God, not the Father yet still be allowed to worship Him as GOD when the Bible clearly states: to worship ONLY GOD with your whole heart soul and mind
that there is only ONE GOD? why do you make two when that goes against Scripture and God's holy word?
you still have not explained it you just side step the topic and go in a different rant.
A
where in the Bible does it say that He "retook His Godly form as the Father"?
He came back in a resurrected spiritual/celestial body like the one all of God's children will be given upon resurrection. for we will not be naked with no bodies and spirit alone as the demons are but we will be given new flesh upon death of the old body of dust. For God gives bodies to those He wills and cuts off those who transgress.
questions are fine Devolution, but are you willing to read and actually listen to the responses and reevaluate your thinking or is this conversation futile?
if you are not willing to listen tell me now and I won't waste my time.
LBG I ask myself the same question every day. I speak and treat you as I would myself. I'm not soft or nice all the time because I do not think that is healthy for anyone, myself included. So yes I know it may come across to those who do not pray every day as harsh, but perhaps they then will remember that prayer should be a daily thing for the Lord told us to pray "give us TODAY our daily bread" and we are not to live on bread alone but every WORD that proceedth out of the mouth of the LORD. How is that possible if we as a people do not set aside time to pray and LISTEN and not just SPEAK?
morning all. talk to you this evening.
He came back in a resurrected spiritual/celestial body like the one all of God's children will be given upon resurrection. for we will not be naked with no bodies and spirit alone as the demons are but we will be given new flesh upon death of the old body of dust. For God gives bodies to those He wills and cuts off those who transgress.
questions are fine Devolution, but are you willing to read and actually listen to the responses and reevaluate your thinking or is this conversation futile?
if you are not willing to listen tell me now and I won't waste my time.
LBG I ask myself the same question every day. I speak and treat you as I would myself. I'm not soft or nice all the time because I do not think that is healthy for anyone, myself included. So yes I know it may come across to those who do not pray every day as harsh, but perhaps they then will remember that prayer should be a daily thing for the Lord told us to pray "give us TODAY our daily bread" and we are not to live on bread alone but every WORD that proceedth out of the mouth of the LORD. How is that possible if we as a people do not set aside time to pray and LISTEN and not just SPEAK?
morning all. talk to you this evening.
Hi LBG,
Though it was an Angel in the Name of the Lord, your whole point still stands. You were talking of Christ's presence, i see what you mean now..yes...totally agree with you. Sorry about that..even though Jesus has His Father's presence/essence/spirit in Him, a clear separation of TWO individuals is at play here...SAME SPIRIT IN BOTH...but INDIVIDUALS..great answer !! Almost like they are truly Father and Son....
Though it was an Angel in the Name of the Lord, your whole point still stands. You were talking of Christ's presence, i see what you mean now..yes...totally agree with you. Sorry about that..even though Jesus has His Father's presence/essence/spirit in Him, a clear separation of TWO individuals is at play here...SAME SPIRIT IN BOTH...but INDIVIDUALS..great answer !! Almost like they are truly Father and Son....
TWO INDIVIDUALS...SAME SPIRIT IN BOTH...that means ONE. One Spirit. And the Spirit COMES from the Father, and is OF the Father, that is the key. Just as we will all be ONE in Christ doesn't mean we are all one person..but it is that same Spirit that MAKES us one.
The Son is the heir, but His Father NEVER DIES, so HOW can Jesus inherit if His Father will never die? Well He can not, so something different must take place, give His Son the FULLNESS of the Father's Spirit and have Him become the Fathers EXPRESS IMAGE...like a living shadow....reflecting all that is of the Father. NOW Jesus is worshipped also, He can and does speak for the Father in all things...SAME SPIRIT ensures every decision the Son makes would be exactly the Same as the Father would.
This is why He can be called Father also now...hence....express IMAGE.
The Son is the heir, but His Father NEVER DIES, so HOW can Jesus inherit if His Father will never die? Well He can not, so something different must take place, give His Son the FULLNESS of the Father's Spirit and have Him become the Fathers EXPRESS IMAGE...like a living shadow....reflecting all that is of the Father. NOW Jesus is worshipped also, He can and does speak for the Father in all things...SAME SPIRIT ensures every decision the Son makes would be exactly the Same as the Father would.
This is why He can be called Father also now...hence....express IMAGE.
A
I figure it will take a whole lifetime to learn and truly understand even a small pebble in God's universe, but if you want to share WHY you believe as you do I would be interested in hearing the testimony.
What I believe I have not found the words to express, so it would be interesting if someone else have been given them. I do not think its traditional "trinitarianism" or anything I've read about yet. I'm still researching the different descriptions.
What I believe I have not found the words to express, so it would be interesting if someone else have been given them. I do not think its traditional "trinitarianism" or anything I've read about yet. I'm still researching the different descriptions.
Just to emphasise yoiur point here
Jesus prayed to his Father
That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one
John 17:22
How can we as believers be as one?
Can you be me and I you?
No, we remain individual people
But we can be of one heart and one mind in the Spirit. That is the only way we can be one
That they may be one AS we are one
Jesus prayed to his Father
That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one
John 17:22
How can we as believers be as one?
Can you be me and I you?
No, we remain individual people
But we can be of one heart and one mind in the Spirit. That is the only way we can be one
That they may be one AS we are one
Isaiah 41:4
Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD--with the first of them and with the last--I am he."
Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
Revelation 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
Revelation 3:14
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD--with the first of them and with the last--I am he."
Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
Revelation 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
Revelation 3:14
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Jesus answered them
Is it not written in your law. 'I have said ye are gods
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came-and the scriptures cannot be broken-what about the one whom the father set apart as his very own and sent into the world
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said I am God's son
John 10:34-37
For even if there are so called gods whether in Heaven or on earth(as indeed there are many gods and many lords) yet for us THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHOM all things came and FOR WHOM we live, and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH WHOM all things came and THROUGH WHOM we live
1 Cor 8:5&6
On that day THERE WILL BE ONE LORD, AND HIS NAME THE ONLY NAME
Zech 14:9
That they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him: He will not forgive your rebellion since my name is in him.
Ex 23:21
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of MY GOD and the name of the city of MY GOD the new Jerusalem which is coming down out of Heaven from MY GOD
Rev 3:12
Is it not written in your law. 'I have said ye are gods
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came-and the scriptures cannot be broken-what about the one whom the father set apart as his very own and sent into the world
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said I am God's son
John 10:34-37
For even if there are so called gods whether in Heaven or on earth(as indeed there are many gods and many lords) yet for us THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHOM all things came and FOR WHOM we live, and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH WHOM all things came and THROUGH WHOM we live
1 Cor 8:5&6
On that day THERE WILL BE ONE LORD, AND HIS NAME THE ONLY NAME
Zech 14:9
That they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him: He will not forgive your rebellion since my name is in him.
Ex 23:21
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of MY GOD and the name of the city of MY GOD the new Jerusalem which is coming down out of Heaven from MY GOD
Rev 3:12
Alternative view
Therefore Goid exalted himself to the highest place (had God only been equal to his companions before this?)
And gave Himself the name that is above every other name
that at the name of God
every knee should bow
and every tongue confess
that God is God
To the glory of God
I have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore I have set myself above my companions
And annointed myself with the oikl of joy
God said to himself
I will sit at my own right hand
until I have made my enemies a footstool for my own feet.
Therefore Goid exalted himself to the highest place (had God only been equal to his companions before this?)
And gave Himself the name that is above every other name
that at the name of God
every knee should bow
and every tongue confess
that God is God
To the glory of God
I have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore I have set myself above my companions
And annointed myself with the oikl of joy
God said to himself
I will sit at my own right hand
until I have made my enemies a footstool for my own feet.
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G
What the Father shows the Son
In other words, you see the Father express Hisself through the Son. Him and the Father were one in the sense that His Father was dwelling in Him, not Him doing the works; He was a Son, Himself, the immortal, virgin born, Son of God. And then in Him was dwelling the God the Father, expressing Hisself to the world, His attitude towards the people. See? Well, that's how Christ and God were one. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Now, He said, "When you see Me, you see the Father, and why do you say, 'Show us the Father?'"
Body of man, Spirit of God
And God had to come down in His Son, Christ Jesus, to suffer. That's right. And God's Blood bled from His body. Yes, sir. God was in His Son. He eat like a man. That's right. He spoke like a man (That's right.) when He would talk to people. But I tell you, when some people come to take Him, one time, some soldiers, they went back and said, "Never a man spake like this." He was a man, but that was God speaking out of Him. When He was standing, as I said the other day, by the side of Lazarus' grave, tears rolling down His cheeks, He was a man. But when He said, "Lazarus, come forth," and a man been dead four days come back to life again, that was God speaking out of His Son. Yes, sir.
Name of the Father
And now we find out that Jesus said, also, "I came in My Father's Name, and you received Me not." Then, the Name of the Father must be Jesus. That's right. The Name of the Father is Jesus, 'cause Jesus said so. "I carry My Father's Name. I come in My Father's Name, and you received Me not. Then, His Name was Jesus. And Gabriel called Him Jesus, the prophets called Him Jesus, and He was absolutely Jesus. Before His birth, even the holy prophet called His Name Emmanuel, which is, "God with us." Then, "God was manifested in the flesh, in order to take away the sin of the world," and, in doing so, He was given the Name of Jesus. So, Jesus is the Name. And the Name was placed in a Man; not a church, not a denomination, not a creed, but a Man! He chose to place His Name in Jesus Christ. Now we find out that then He becomes the place of God's worship, where you worship Him. Ever before He was even born, His Name was called Jesus. It was so important, it was give to His mother by the Angel Gabriel, that His Name would be called "Jesus, Son of God," what He was.
In other words, you see the Father express Hisself through the Son. Him and the Father were one in the sense that His Father was dwelling in Him, not Him doing the works; He was a Son, Himself, the immortal, virgin born, Son of God. And then in Him was dwelling the God the Father, expressing Hisself to the world, His attitude towards the people. See? Well, that's how Christ and God were one. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Now, He said, "When you see Me, you see the Father, and why do you say, 'Show us the Father?'"
Body of man, Spirit of God
And God had to come down in His Son, Christ Jesus, to suffer. That's right. And God's Blood bled from His body. Yes, sir. God was in His Son. He eat like a man. That's right. He spoke like a man (That's right.) when He would talk to people. But I tell you, when some people come to take Him, one time, some soldiers, they went back and said, "Never a man spake like this." He was a man, but that was God speaking out of Him. When He was standing, as I said the other day, by the side of Lazarus' grave, tears rolling down His cheeks, He was a man. But when He said, "Lazarus, come forth," and a man been dead four days come back to life again, that was God speaking out of His Son. Yes, sir.
Name of the Father
And now we find out that Jesus said, also, "I came in My Father's Name, and you received Me not." Then, the Name of the Father must be Jesus. That's right. The Name of the Father is Jesus, 'cause Jesus said so. "I carry My Father's Name. I come in My Father's Name, and you received Me not. Then, His Name was Jesus. And Gabriel called Him Jesus, the prophets called Him Jesus, and He was absolutely Jesus. Before His birth, even the holy prophet called His Name Emmanuel, which is, "God with us." Then, "God was manifested in the flesh, in order to take away the sin of the world," and, in doing so, He was given the Name of Jesus. So, Jesus is the Name. And the Name was placed in a Man; not a church, not a denomination, not a creed, but a Man! He chose to place His Name in Jesus Christ. Now we find out that then He becomes the place of God's worship, where you worship Him. Ever before He was even born, His Name was called Jesus. It was so important, it was give to His mother by the Angel Gabriel, that His Name would be called "Jesus, Son of God," what He was.
When the disciples looked right into the face of Jesus Christ thy were looking right into the face of God and when they did, they did not die but they lived. If you have seen me (or looked into my face) you have seen the Father (and looked into His face). The Son was not only the expressed image of His person but also the brightness of His glory (Heb 1:3). When the disciples looked upon Jesus Christ they were beholding the brightness of the glory of God. This glory was the Word made flesh and when they looked upon Jesus, they saw this glory expressed as the image of the Father that was full of grace and truth. There was not distinction between the Father and the Son because they were equal and they were one in every way, in thought, in word and in deed and truth. To see the Son was to see the Father. To believe upon the Son was to believe upon the Father and no one could believe upon the Father without believing upon the Son whom He sent.
Jn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?, He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jn 12:44,45 Jesus cried and said , He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
Jn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?, He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jn 12:44,45 Jesus cried and said , He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.