No One Can Save Themselves

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
113
#21
If blood is passed through the man, not the woman, and Christ had no earthly father, whose blood did He have?

Why did it have to be a virgin birth, in other words?
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
#22
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." (Acts 2:40)

"..work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12)

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matthew 24:13)

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

"Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3)
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#23
If blood is passed through the man, not the woman, and Christ had no earthly father, whose blood did He have?

Why did it have to be a virgin birth, in other words?
More than the blood, look at the seed, Gen. 3:15.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#24
Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Hebrews 13:6
So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

What Does the Bible Say About Being Saved? - OpenBible.info
Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

John 8:31-32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/being_saved

First of all I want to thank you for the use of the Open Bible, that was my very first study on my beginning steps in this walk with my Lord and Savior Jesus Chirst to understanding my position in this relationship of who is Lord and Savior, how one that has been saved by his Lord needs to view that relationship. This verse is the proper view of the Lord and His salvation for man, Genesis 49-18
“I wait for your salvation, O Lord.”

I love fact that the Lord that created to heavens and the earth has seen fit to let us know in the book of Genesis that man should wait for the salvation of the Lord.

Listen to how this prayer starts out by the saved person exulting the Lord for the salvation that He provided them, it caused them to look to Him for His salvation, to rely on Him for every action of salvation.

I Samuel 2:1
“My heart exults in the Lord;my horn is exalted in the Lord. My mouth derides my enemies,because I rejoice in your salvation.”

I Chronicles 16:35-36 “Say also: “Save us, O God of our salvation,and gather and deliver us from among the nations, that we may give thanks to your holy nameand glory in your praise.36 Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel,from everlasting to everlasting!”







 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,197
6,539
113
#25
Credit where credit is due:

A new "back door" approach to the age old discussion of works v. faith?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,045
13,052
113
58
#26
When God calls us, He has conditioned our heart to accept Him...He has seen this eons before and knows who will and who will not accept him. Yes it is by a known outcome of a Free-Will action on man's part.

I wrote an article on this on another thread..(http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/140980-predestination-vs-freewill-7.html#post3460659)

Hope you have a blessed evening!

Blade
There is the general call (Matthew 22:14) and the effectual call (Romans 8:30).

Romans 8:29 - For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#27
With all due respect posthuman, while I totally understand that the fetus and maternal blood do not mix, I am not really discussing the blood DNA of Jesus.

What I am trying to touch upon is what seems like an inconsistency of 1Timothy 2:14 and Romans 5:12

Both sinned, yet Romans makes it clear that sin entered the world through one man, he was not deceived he committed sin apart from deception and therefore more culpable.
As well he blamed Eve, whereas Eve admitted she had been deceived.




If blood is passed through the man, not the woman, and Christ had no earthly father, whose blood did He have?

Why did it have to be a virgin birth, in other words?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
113
#28
More than the blood, look at the seed, Gen. 3:15.
the seed of the woman saves. the seed of the man . . . ?

now we're talking about the continuity of germplasm, and again the necessity of the virgin birth - and how it is that sin spread through man and how Christ was sinless :)

blood is not transferred from a mother through the womb to a child. when a child is conceived, the germplasm first replicates itself, and only afterwards the flesh is made, and that flesh encapsulates and protects the germplasm.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
113
#29
With all due respect posthuman, while I totally understand that the fetus and maternal blood do not mix, I am not really discussing the blood DNA of Jesus.

What I am trying to touch upon is what seems like an inconsistency of 1Timothy 2:14 and Romans 5:12

Both sinned, yet Romans makes it clear that sin entered the world through one man, he was not deceived he committed sin apart from deception and therefore more culpable.
As well he blamed Eve, whereas Eve admitted she had been deceived.


there is that Adam sinned even being undeceived, and that perhaps by this fact sin was conferred.

there is also that Adam was the federal head of humanity, not Woman, so culpability and responsibility ultimately resides with him.

there is also that when she ate, he had not -- so there is a space of time during which Adam has life and Eve has death, and Adam must decide to join her in death or to remain in life, separating himself from her. but he 'listened to the voice of his wife' rather than God. ((what did she say?)) Adam could have chosen not to eat, and perhaps God would have created another mate ((as He later suggested to Moses . . ?)). since he did not, and instead all existing humanity became sinful, his decision, after the Womans, was the 'sealing of the deal' so to speak. ((yet God did not destroy them both and start over -- why?))

what i'm saying is that there may also be biological reasons, because God forbids Israel from eating blood, saying "the life is in the blood" -- and Christ was virgin born, skipping the transference of whatever it is a human father transfers to a child: yet He developed in an human mother's womb, and was sinless. biologically speaking, whatever He received from Mary, He did not receive sin.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#30
With all due respect posthuman, while I totally understand that the fetus and maternal blood do not mix, I am not really discussing the blood DNA of Jesus.

What I am trying to touch upon is what seems like an inconsistency of 1Timothy 2:14 and Romans 5:12

Both sinned, yet Romans makes it clear that sin entered the world through one man, he was not deceived he committed sin apart from deception and therefore more culpable.
As well he blamed Eve, whereas Eve admitted she had been deceived.
Adam knew the penalty for taking on the sin of his bride but he did it anyway, I'm guessing because he loved her. He is a picture of Christ who also took the sin of his bride (the church) upon himself because he loved her.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#31
the seed of the woman saves. the seed of the man . . . ?

now we're talking about the continuity of germplasm, and again the necessity of the virgin birth - and how it is that sin spread through man and how Christ was sinless :)

blood is not transferred from a mother through the womb to a child. when a child is conceived, the germplasm first replicates itself, and only afterwards the flesh is made, and that flesh encapsulates and protects the germplasm.
In simple terms, Jesus was not created in the image of Adam like every son from Adam on down are. Jesus was formed in a body in the image of HIS father.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
113
#32
In simple terms, Jesus was not created in the image of Adam like every son from Adam on down are. Jesus was formed in a body in the image of HIS father.
He put on human flesh just like our human flesh, made as Adam was made, in His own image. Physically human.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#33
If blood is passed through the man, not the woman, and Christ had no earthly father, whose blood did He have?

Why did it have to be a virgin birth, in other words?

SO SAD! Blade
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
#34
I dont see any difference, sin entered into the world regardless.
It is Doctrine, and sound judgement.
If you do not see it then you have been swayed into believing a lie.



Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;


18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#35
now we're talking about the continuity of germplasm, and again the necessity of the virgin birth - and how it is that sin spread through man and how Christ was sinless :)

blood is not transferred from a mother through the womb to a child. when a child is conceived, the germplasm first replicates itself, and only afterwards the flesh is made, and that flesh encapsulates and protects the germplasm.
I take it that by conception you are referring unto the cell fusion between a male gamete and female gamete. Yet cell fusion does not result in the replication of either the male or female gamete (haploid) but forms a completely new cell, zygote (diploid).

But you are right, blood is neither passed on to child by the male or female gamete, but originates within the developing embryo weeks after the procreation of the zygote.

While Parthenogenesis has been reported to occur in some reptiles, birds and fish where a zygote forms without cell fusion, the fact remains that in man, if the gamete of the female developed into a zygote the resulting zygote would have the xx chromosome, thus would be a female.


 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#36
It is Doctrine, and sound judgement.
If you do not see it then you have been swayed into believing a lie.



Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


16
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;


18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Alrighty then, do you believe it is pertinent to your salvation?
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#37
I take it that by conception you are referring unto the cell fusion between a male gamete and female gamete. Yet cell fusion does not result in the replication of either the male or female gamete (haploid) but forms a completely new cell, zygote (diploid).

But you are right, blood is neither passed on to child by the male or female gamete, but originates within the developing embryo weeks after the procreation of the zygote.

While Parthenogenesis has been reported to occur in some reptiles, birds and fish where a zygote forms without cell fusion, the fact remains that in man, if the gamete of the female developed into a zygote the resulting zygote would have the xx chromosome, thus would be a female.


So does the seed come into play anywhere or no?
 

LibrarianLeo

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
191
2
0
#38

I love fact that the Lord that created to heavens and the earth has seen fit to let us know in the book of Genesis that man should wait for the salvation of the Lord.

All of scripture sends two messages, what we are to do, and that God handles everything. Both messages are prevalent.
 

LibrarianLeo

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
191
2
0
#39
WRONG...GOD Elects US, Calls US, Saves US, Justifies US and Sanctifies US.
True that. But God allows us to think we are involved,
a little bit.

Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Romans 10:10-17 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? ...


Matthew 9:37-38
Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”


John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.

John 20: “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.”

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”


John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Acts 8:4-25
Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word. Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ. And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip when they heard him and saw the signs that he did.

Philemon 1:6
And I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ.

Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

John 6“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ...

Psalm 73:28
But for me it is good to be near God; I have made the Lord God my refuge, that I may tell of all your works.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

John 4:36-38
Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Luke 4:18-19
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.”

Proverbs 24:11
Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#40
True that. But God allows us to think we are involved,
a little bit.

Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Romans 10:10-17 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? ...


Matthew 9:37-38
Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”


John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.

John 20: “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.”

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”


John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Acts 8:4-25
Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word. Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ. And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip when they heard him and saw the signs that he did.

Philemon 1:6
And I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ.

Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

John 6“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ...

Psalm 73:28
But for me it is good to be near God; I have made the Lord God my refuge, that I may tell of all your works.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

John 4:36-38
Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. For here the saying holds true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Luke 4:18-19
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.”

Proverbs 24:11
Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.
Then use the Brain that HE gave you and recognize that HE is Greater than YOU in all ways. Yes, He knew before you do it what you were going to do and acted accordingly. The same goes to Boiling water.....Everybody knows that water starts to boil at 110 degrees Fahrenheit therefore we act accordingly to that fact. So SAD!