Not By Works

[JIMBO43]

I am scared for you, You preach works, and law. and call it grace.

nope i dont i call works and law an expression of the grace that was planted in you from the vine.. all fruits that you bare are a result of Gods grace that you must bare for your self.. or be cut of.. coz Gods grace is sufficent.. as he quotes

here
[h=1]2 Corinthians[/h] My grace is enough; it’s all you need.
My strength comes into its own in your weakness. ( my grace is strong enough for you to overcome weekness)

 

[JIMBO43]

here
2 Corinthians

My grace is enough; it’s all you need.
My strength comes into its own in your weakness. ( my grace is strong enough for you to overcome weekness).

Once I heard that, I was glad to let it happen. I quit focusing on the handicap and began appreciating the gift. It was a case of Christ’s strength moving in on my weakness. Now I take limitations in stride, and with good cheer, these limitations that cut me down to size—abuse, accidents, opposition, bad breaks. I just let Christ take over! And so the weaker I get, the stronger I become.

 

[JIMBO43]

The mere fact I am granted the opportunity to live me life is grace, I do not deserve a job, I do not deserve a wife and kids, I do not deserve my house, my cars, my toys, my church my friends.

The mere fact I have them is but by the grace of God.

Salvation is a different story, I can never earn salvation, So I can never be any point in my life where I deserve the gift of God. This I will always be in the need of grace, every moment of every day. That is saving grace, Which is either a one time thing, or not grace at all.

Your trying to mix sanctifying gracem which changes from day to day, with justification by grace, which is a one time event.

The gift of grace is a gift... it is also something God is full of and believers.. the gift of grace grows in the believer to the point where they become full of grace.. You do derserve a good life coz God rewards those who abide in him..

Granted it is not your right to expect theese thing but i bet my last dollar that all theese things you say you dont desereve are a direct result of you growing in Gods grace..

 

[Meggido]

Well, there is certainly merit in what you are saying brother. However I think the example of the rich young ruler exemplifies those that were NEVER saved to begin with. (Although in his case we don't know if he repented and accepted Jesus).

This is always the distinction we struggle with. I can't find a single person in Scripture that ACCEPTED Jesus, and then either forsook their faith, or God cast them away.

Now there are GROUPS of people Scripture refers to, but I believe if we dig deep enough it always turns out that this passage applies:
1 John 2:19New King James Version (NKJV)

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that NONE of them WERE of us.

On differences like eternal assurance, although I do think it can be very damaging to believe in a saved person losing salvation, (a true oxymoron right there lol!) I look to see if that individual believes Jesus rose from the Grave, and has confessed Him as Lord, and trust THAT Jesus HAS INDEED permanently saved them through THAT Gospel.

Peace, Grace, and Love to you! I hope you don't hold my faith in eternal security through Jesus against me brother.

How could the rich young ruler be saved, since the New covenant was not in effect yet? The rich young ruler walked away because he could not give up something in his life for Jesus....The rich young ruler also fulfills part of the parable of the sower...which is about continual heart condition and not salvation and a 1 time act of repentance...

 

[Meggido]

No, bearing fruit of the Spirit is a life time process. As we continue in faith throughout our lives we are bearing fruit, meaning that we are becoming more and more like Christ.

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

Throughout the believers life, God is pruning the believer so that he becomes even more fruitful.

JOhn 15 has zero to do with bearing the Fruit of the Spirit of Gal 5.22-23

 

[Magenta]

Absolutely spot on in your overhead projection ..

Except for the fact that it it is the same old pack of lies often projected onto people who actually recognize the fact that they need God's grace on a continuing, ongoing basis, to help them grow in the image and likeness of Christ, and His love for us. The grace of God is not license to sin for the person who places their faith and trust in Christ. It would be nice if the "worker's" crowd stopped misrepresenting this. Yet it seems an impossible request for them to honour. They show their willingness to sin in this way and refuse to repent of it. The hypocrisy of their claims is blatant for those with eyes to see...

 

[Meggido]

where does it say the process will continue untill your dead ?

he is confused...so many believe that the fruit Jesus is talking about bearing in John 15 is the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5.22-23....when that dog will not hunt...

 

[JIMBO43]

Except for the fact that it it is the same old pack of lies often projected onto people who actually recognize the fact that they need God's grace on a continuing, ongoing basis, to help them grow in the image and likeness of Christ, and His love for us. The grace of God is not license to sin for the person who places their faith and trust in Christ. It would be nice if the "worker's" crowd stopped misrepresenting this. Yet it seems an impossible request for them to honour. They show their willingness to sin in this way and refuse to repent of it. The hypocrisy of their claims is blatant for those with eyes to see...

who ever said diffrent ? ive not herd anyone say Gods gift of grace is a liscence to sin...

ive herd people suggesting they dont need more grace.. or once there saved by Gods grace it is an uncoruptable seed..

Gods grace is uncorruptable thats why it cant stay in a temple that defiles Gods grace.. that why the members of the vine must bare fruits of Gods grace fruits that grow from grace.. like you say we need it on a continuing basis

 

[eternally-gratefull]

nope i dont i call works and law an expression of the grace that was planted in you from the vine.. all fruits that you bare are a result of Gods grace that you must bare for your self.. or be cut of.. coz Gods grace is sufficent.. as he quotes

here
2 Corinthians

My grace is enough; it’s all you need.
My strength comes into its own in your weakness. ( my grace is strong enough for you to overcome weekness)

everything you say to me shows me that you are trying to earn your way to heaven. Which is not listening to God.

As God said, his grace is enough, it is all you need, Your works are filthy rags, and will never save you.

We are not under law. but under grace. You can not be under both..

We work because of Gods grace, not to earn Gods grace.

 

[Meggido]

That is the whole point, which takes grace and the power of grace, and turns it into some legalistic religious function that is not of Christ.

God does not expect you to do anything, He saves you to bring you into a right relationship in him, then he tells you it is your position in him which causes you to do good. To work, And to love.

Religion is not the answer, Our position in Christ and what he has done, Is doing, and will do in us is.

Titus 2.11-15 teaches that grace also empowers us to do in our spirit and our position in Christ, what we cannot do in our flesh...the parables of the talents and the mina's prove God has expectations of you after he purchased you by his grace and through your faith....and you do these things out of a grateful heart for what he did for you, not to keep or maintain the gift...

Again with this false teaching of passive work of Christ and because of it I do not have to do anything...the Holy Spirit is at work in you and upon you...stop freeloading off of the free gift and unbury your talent and go bear fruit, increase the talent....

 

[JIMBO43]

he is confused...so many believe that the fruit Jesus is talking about bearing in John 15 is the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5.22-23....when that dog will not hunt...

i dont think so he saying it can take a lifetime to bare thesse fruits.. im not so sure.. as Gods grace is sufficent

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How could the rich young ruler be saved, since the New covenant was not in effect yet? The rich young ruler walked away because he could not give up something in his life for Jesus....The rich young ruler also fulfills part of the parable of the sower...which is about continual heart condition and not salvation and a 1 time act of repentance...

How was David saved?

The rich young ruler was not saved because he loved his money more than he did God. God did not ask him to earn his salvation, No one ever did that, He wanted to prove to the man where his heart is,,

We cna not do that, Because we can not know a persons heart. God can, and God did. and God does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

who ever said diffrent ? ive not herd anyone say Gods gift of grace is a liscence to sin...

ive herd people suggesting they dont need more grace.. or once there saved by Gods grace it is an uncoruptable seed..

Gods grace is uncorruptable thats why it cant stay in a temple that defiles Gods grace.. that why the members of the vine must bare fruits of Gods grace fruits that grow from grace.. like you say we need it on a continuing basis

Think about what you are saying.

Grace is given to those who have not earned it, based on Gods mercy. (it is not merited)

If you could ever earn it, You would no longer need grace, You would instead start earning Gods forgiveness.

So based on this fact, No one who has been given Gods grace earns it, so in your example. No one could ever be saved,

 

[Magenta]

who ever said diffrent ?

You need to go back and look at what you agreed with. This time perhaps try a little harder to comprehend what you are reading.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Titus 2.11-15 teaches that grace also empowers us to do in our spirit and our position in Christ, what we cannot do in our flesh...the parables of the talents and the mina's prove God has expectations of you after he purchased you by his grace and through your faith....and you do these things out of a grateful heart for what he did for you, not to keep or maintain the gift...

Which is what I have said since the first day I came in here, We work out of gratitude, and love, not out of fearful expectation.

Again with this false teaching of passive work of Christ and because of it I do not have to do anything...the Holy Spirit is at work in you and upon you...stop freeloading off of the free gift and unbury your talent and go bear fruit, increase the talent....

And again you have slandered a person because you refuse to actually sit still and listen to what they have said. and instead keep preaching that they believe things they have never believed.

and you call me a hypocrite! when you just attacked me based on a false pretense of what you THINK I BELIEVE. which if you would ever listen to me, YOU WOULD KNOW IS NOT TRUE.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i dont think so he saying it can take a lifetime to bare thesse fruits.. im not so sure.. as Gods grace is sufficent

People who are saved should start baring some sort of fruit immediately.

How much fruit they bare depending on how much a person grows and learns to trust God in different ares of their life. The more they abide in the vine (grow in faith of just trusting jesus) , the more fruit they will bare.

 

[royalscot]

god made nebaknezza a dog for 7 years your spirit can exist in any vessel..

were you an eye, witness to this.

 

[Meggido]

The above is false! We are all covered sinners. As those in Christ we are sinners, not that we have an attitude that since we are in Christ we are fee to sin, but because we are sinners just as God's word claims:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

So, are you claiming that you are without sin? There is a difference between walking in Christ and committing sin, vs. those who are turned away from Christ and are willfully sinning. Those who have gone back into living according to the sinful nature. Remaining in the Vine doesn't mean that a believer doesn't have sin.

If you are going to claim that a believer in Christ has no sin, then refer you to the the above scripture.

God's word claims after conversion, you are no longer a sinner saved by grace, but a son, an heir, a saint that will still sin and make mistakes.....sinner is he old man.... saint is the new man.....

Paul never once addresses his letters this way....
TO all the sinners saved by grace, IT is my hearts desire to add and grace and peace of Jesus unto you, but I cannot, for you should never be forgetting the wretch you were, are and will always be...

I admonish you by the guilt of Christ's death places on you to keep unburying the dead man to constantly remind yourself that your just a poor sinner saved by grace....and a child of disobedience...deserving of nothing, unable to do nothing, because the passive work of our Lord is a life long struggle, because the 2 natures war all the time. I also bring to your remembrance that imputed righteousness is not position.... it is only found when we are absent of the body and with the Lord or when a secret meeting in the air takes place among us and all our secret brethren...So you foolish people remember you are not who God says you in the new man, you are to remember what Satan says you are in the old man....a wretch, and a poe ole sinner saved by grace...



Paul addressed his letters this way...TO THE SAINTS!

 

[royalscot]

you made a post about, 5 years , before death.
the death your cut of from , has nothing to do with interpretation, of the logos word..
it because of your own interpretation.


22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever---"Genesis 3


18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 3:

 

[Ahwatukee]

he is confused...so many believe that the fruit Jesus is talking about bearing in John 15 is the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5.22-23....when that dog will not hunt...

"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

To be transformed into the image of Christ with "ever-increasing glory" demonstrates the on-going process of being made holy, which continues throughout the believers life time.

The words "to be transformed" is the word "Metamorphoo" which is where we get our English word "Metamorphous" which means to "change after being with." To be transfigured.

We have two natures, the old man, which is the sinful nature and the new man in Christ. Scripture supports this in that the flesh wars against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh, for they are contrary to one another. As the believer goes from faith to faith, the idea is that the new man in Christ is displacing the old nature, which is a life time process.