Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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There is a difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God...very few get it...when they do.... they then begin to understand fully that the kingdom is not a democracy, republic or statehood....or weekend visits...

He wants all of you or not any of you.....he wants full time custody not weekend visits...
I remember we discussed this before and I thought we were in agreement. Now I'm not really sure what you believe. The kingdom of God is within. The kingdom of heaven is above.

He has all of us if the kingdom is within. But, we in Spirit have sat down with Him in His Victory, and from the heavenlies or the position of resting in His Victory, we walk from there on earth. Being God within, and Holy Spirit empowering.

It's not about being nice. It's not about outward obedience to law. It's about being One with God. Hearing His Voice, and being Spirit not flesh.

Theres' a lot of confusion now for something so simple. Holiness is our cry...we thirst for righteousness, and desire to be Holy as He is.....because we are now like Him.

Too much being said about outward obedience or self power. Will get no rewards for any work from that.
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
we are circumcised in heart when we are born again.

I don't know why but where I grew up, circumcision is done on the baby boys. We do sign for it, but I thought it was actually a law until I came to the first forum years ago, and found out it is not. Not even in nursing did I hear it wasn't law. All my family are.

I think Jews viewed gentiles as pagans. They were clean people in every way. The Jews I mean...I have no idea about pagans


our hearts are not automatically circumcised when we become a believer. not anymore than male babies loose parts out of thin air God commanded something and Moses' wife had to take him to task because he did not perform the operation on his own sons and apparently, God was miffed to the point of wanting to kill him.

Hebrew scholars are still undecided whether Godsought to kill Moses or his son. Verse 24 does not clearly give the answer, though the pronoun "him" seems to have its antecedent in "Moses" in verse 21.Moses knew that all Israelites were to be circumcised on the eighth day of their lives (Genesis 17:9-14). However, his wife Zipporah was not an Israelite but a Midianite, who obviously did not follow the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision (though the Midianites were descendants of Abraham through his second wife, Keturah; see Genesis 25:1-2). Apparently, Moses failed to circumcise his son because of her objection to the practice.Exodus 4 shows that Moses, returning to Egypt to lead God's people Israel to the Promised Land, did not have his own house in subjection (see I Timothy 3:4). God could not allow His direct representative to lead the entire nation of Israel when he had not himself faithfully brought his family under the covenant, of which circumcision was the sign. That God acted to "cut him off" illustrates just how seriously God takes our commitment (or lack thereof) to His covenant (Hebrews 10:26-31).
personally, I think God was after Moses and it does sound shocking in light of Moses' call from God

21The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.22Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’ ”24At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses[SUP]b[/SUP] and was about to kill him. 25But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it.[SUP]c[/SUP] “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. 26So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.)

Exodus 4


But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:29

the work of the Holy Spirit in us is to create the likeness of Christ. that does not happen automatically. God says this in Deuteronomy 10:16

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff necked.

At salvation we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. nothing is automatic or why would God commend for what He gives them? that is not even logical

and why is this praise from God and not from men? (although God knows the boasters abound) it is because God looks on the heart and not the outward appearance which includes boasting, superior attitudes, distain and a refusal to be taught because they have the mistaken idea that when the Bible says you don't need a man to teach you because you have the Holy Spirit, they OVERLOOK the fact that one of the gifts God gives through His Spirit to build up the body, is TEACHER, which, in His economy, He would not have done if we did not need them

I won't bother about the process of becoming a teacher because by now some folks mental processes are already on lockdown because they do exactly what I just said should not be done


if we are told to abstain from this, that and the other thing, AND WE ARE TOLD, then it is an act of will. the Holy Spirit works in us to conform us to the likeness of Christ.

we aren't forced. and it is not automatic.

anyone saying that all these things...these changes...are some kind of osmosis....is misled and in error


 
S

sevenseas

Guest
about the Jews

they were clean sure nuff after God cleaned them up. what does someone think all those dietary and cleanliness laws were all about? GOD CLEANED THEM UP ON THE OUTSIDE

the Jews were not really bothered by the ungodly nations around them

they had to be COMMANDED not to intermarry and in one case, the men were told to get rid of their foreign wives

things are black and white. people want to keep painting different shades of gray.

gray is a popular color this year I heard...on walls
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
You're saying that simply possessing the Spirit means we are walking in it and, therefore, satisfying the condition to not be under condemnation. I wish it were that simple, but it's not. Possessing the Spirit in salvation and walking in it are two very different things as we can easily see from this verse:

"25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit." (Galatians 5:25 NASB)

We choose whether or not we are going to obey God and walk in the Spirit. If we ignore the impulse of the Spirit to do right we are then guilty of not walking by the Spirit. At that moment we stand condemned by the law. Not so as to be suddenly un-saved--we're still alive in salvation as a new creation by the Holy Spirit. Just guilty of wrong-doing.

If and when our quenching of the Spirit is motivated by a decision to no longer care about and trust in Christ's blood for forgiveness, that is when we are venturing into the willful unbelief that will eventually cause you to lose your salvation and bring you back under the wrath of God if you persist in it and refuse all of God's warnings to return.
Actually sir I am not saying it, God is and does. We who are saved are dead to the law and as such face no condemnation. Are there consequences in this life for making bad choices? Absolutely. However, as far as judgement or condemnation is concerned we who are saved face neither. Again, it is not in any way, shape or form what we do that either saves us or keeps us saved OR determines if we are condemned but rather it is what Jesus did that determines all those tings.

Once we begin to realize our true identity in Christ then and only then can we act in any sort of real Christian way. When we let ourselves be deceived into toxic faith (thats trying to meet a set of standards set by religion to gain our worth) we can not truly follow Jesus' command to love God above all else and love others as we love ourselves. It is only when we begin to have genuine faith (realizing our worth comes from Christ and Christ alone) that we are finally free to love others as God loves us.

We are incapable of saving ourselves and we are sealed unto salvation by the finished work of Jesus. This is a very, very difficult thing to accept as it means we must lay down our pride and ego and trust Jesus. However once accomplished we gain a freedom we could never have imagined. For me it's a daily process and often an hourly one when I thank God for making me righteous and holy.

Also when we try and establish our own righteous through good works or anything else we are actually disobeying God.

Romans 10:2-3 2 [FONT=&quot]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

God wants us to have faith in Him, not our own works. :)[/FONT]
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
our hearts are not automatically circumcised when we become a believer. not anymore than male babies loose parts out of thin air God commanded something and Moses' wife had to take him to task because he did not perform the operation on his own sons and apparently, God was miffed to the point of wanting to kill him.



personally, I think God was after Moses and it does sound shocking in light of Moses' call from God

21The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.22Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’ ”24At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses[SUP]b[/SUP] and was about to kill him. 25But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it.[SUP]c[/SUP] “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. 26So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.)

Exodus 4


But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:29

the work of the Holy Spirit in us is to create the likeness of Christ. that does not happen automatically. God says this in Deuteronomy 10:16

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff necked.

At salvation we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. nothing is automatic or why would God commend for what He gives them? that is not even logical

and why is this praise from God and not from men? (although God knows the boasters abound) it is because God looks on the heart and not the outward appearance which includes boasting, superior attitudes, distain and a refusal to be taught because they have the mistaken idea that when the Bible says you don't need a man to teach you because you have the Holy Spirit, they OVERLOOK the fact that one of the gifts God gives through His Spirit to build up the body, is TEACHER, which, in His economy, He would not have done if we did not need them

I won't bother about the process of becoming a teacher because by now some folks mental processes are already on lockdown because they do exactly what I just said should not be done


if we are told to abstain from this, that and the other thing, AND WE ARE TOLD, then it is an act of will. the Holy Spirit works in us to conform us to the likeness of Christ.

we aren't forced. and it is not automatic.

anyone saying that all these things...these changes...are some kind of osmosis....is misled and in error


When is one circumcised. You didn't answer that. Also, remember...osmosis is your word.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
about the Jews

they were clean sure nuff after God cleaned them up. what does someone think all those dietary and cleanliness laws were all about? GOD CLEANED THEM UP ON THE OUTSIDE

the Jews were not really bothered by the ungodly nations around them

they had to be COMMANDED not to intermarry and in one case, the men were told to get rid of their foreign wives

things are black and white. people want to keep painting different shades of gray.

gray is a popular color this year I heard...on walls
Well, yes isn't that the point that some of us here making? They do have laws of cleanliness and they certainly are clean people. Just a result of trying to follow law.

That's what EG, Dcon, myself, PennEd, BillG, Limey...and so many others are saying here. It's an inward work and works to the outside.

Can't forget Grace777 and Ariel.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Apologies if I left anyone else out...wasn't intentional...and now milkman comes to mind. Am sure many will pop up too.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
We don't have to obey God's Laws in His own Kingdom.

I rest my case...
There is no law where there is no sin. There is no sin in the kingdom of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Actually sir I am not saying it, God is and does. We who are saved are dead to the law and as such face no condemnation. Are there consequences in this life for making bad choices? Absolutely. However, as far as judgement or condemnation is concerned we who are saved face neither. Again, it is not in any way, shape or form what we do that either saves us or keeps us saved OR determines if we are condemned but rather it is what Jesus did that determines all those tings.

Once we begin to realize our true identity in Christ then and only then can we act in any sort of real Christian way. When we let ourselves be deceived into toxic faith (thats trying to meet a set of standards set by religion to gain our worth) we can not truly follow Jesus' command to love God above all else and love others as we love ourselves. It is only when we begin to have genuine faith (realizing our worth comes from Christ and Christ alone) that we are finally free to love others as God loves us.

We are incapable of saving ourselves and we are sealed unto salvation by the finished work of Jesus. This is a very, very difficult thing to accept as it means we must lay down our pride and ego and trust Jesus. However once accomplished we gain a freedom we could never have imagined. For me it's a daily process and often an hourly one when I thank God for making me righteous and holy.

Also when we try and establish our own righteous through good works or anything else we are actually disobeying God.

Romans 10:2-3 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

God wants us to have faith in Him, not our own works. :)
Great post...am glad you have returned!
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
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All good.
But you're preaching to the choir.

I'm not living under the Law.
I'm a member of the New Covenant AND
of the Kingdom of God.

I'll wait for you to explain to me what the difference is between the OC and the NC.
who appoint me your teacher. take that up with your teacher.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Actually sir I am not saying it, God is and does. We who are saved are dead to the law and as such face no condemnation. Are there consequences in this life for making bad choices? Absolutely. However, as far as judgement or condemnation is concerned we who are saved face neither. Again, it is not in any way, shape or form what we do that either saves us or keeps us saved OR determines if we are condemned but rather it is what Jesus did that determines all those tings.

Once we begin to realize our true identity in Christ then and only then can we act in any sort of real Christian way. When we let ourselves be deceived into toxic faith (thats trying to meet a set of standards set by religion to gain our worth) we can not truly follow Jesus' command to love God above all else and love others as we love ourselves. It is only when we begin to have genuine faith (realizing our worth comes from Christ and Christ alone) that we are finally free to love others as God loves us.

We are incapable of saving ourselves and we are sealed unto salvation by the finished work of Jesus. This is a very, very difficult thing to accept as it means we must lay down our pride and ego and trust Jesus. However once accomplished we gain a freedom we could never have imagined. For me it's a daily process and often an hourly one when I thank God for making me righteous and holy.

Also when we try and establish our own righteous through good works or anything else we are actually disobeying God.

Romans 10:2-3 2 [FONT=&quot]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

God wants us to have faith in Him, not our own works. :)[/FONT]
You are not condemned if Christ is in you and you are in Christ.

Colossians 1:27-29 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone PERFECT in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

John 14:20-24,31 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.

1 John 5:1-5 Faith in the Son of God Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

John 14:15-16 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “if you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

IF YOU LOVE GOD, OBEY HIS COMMANDS.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Galatians 6:2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

TRY THIS...

Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be PERFECT, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

God bless. To God be all the glory!
 
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May 12, 2017
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There is no law where there is no sin. There is no sin in the kingdom of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Romans 8.2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The Law of Christ is the 2 commandments he gave us...we have an obligation to follow those 2 commandments...
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
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Well, yes isn't that the point that some of us here making? They do have laws of cleanliness and they certainly are clean people. Just a result of trying to follow law.

That's what EG, Dcon, myself, PennEd, BillG, Limey...and so many others are saying here. It's an inward work and works to the outside.

Can't forget Grace777 and Ariel.
clean on the out side, dose not define, bone or flesh or blood, in the inside. (easy to answer the past in the future, )

when did a personal faith, need propaganda, of others. if it claimed the saviour saved them.
and if it claims, to know the saviour. why dose it still ask , what way do i go. what do i do now.
 
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Jan 27, 2013
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if it cannot prove, and protect there own stand, in the faith, ware did they get, the logic and reasoning , to there being a god.

logic and religions, do not save, a saviour saves. thats a personal choice. to a personal relationship.

if the dead, are not dead yet, what logic will, convince them, there is a force called death.

if there is death, who controls death.

wisdom is proven correct, it did not matter, what way he came.

what way, did he go, after he proved, them wrong.

is a different problem, that needs addressed, (when growth ,never stop at the gospel, it needs more thing to understand , if logic comes from reading. )
 
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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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113
clean on the out side, dose not define, bone or flesh or blood, in the inside. (easy to answer the past in the future, )

when did a personal faith, need propaganda, of others. if it claimed the saviour saved them.
and if it claims, to know the saviour. why dose it still ask , what way do i go. what do i do now.
A personal faith when grounded in truth doesn't need the approval of others or their opinions, yes, RG, You are right. But, when seeking to know the will of God, its good to have confirmation, and my understanding of scripture would be through a Prophet.
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
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I remember we discussed this before and I thought we were in agreement. Now I'm not really sure what you believe. The kingdom of God is within. The kingdom of heaven is above.

He has all of us if the kingdom is within. But, we in Spirit have sat down with Him in His Victory, and from the heavenlies or the position of resting in His Victory, we walk from there on earth. Being God within, and Holy Spirit empowering.

It's not about being nice. It's not about outward obedience to law. It's about being One with God. Hearing His Voice, and being Spirit not flesh.

Theres' a lot of confusion now for something so simple. Holiness is our cry...we thirst for righteousness, and desire to be Holy as He is.....because we are now like Him.

Too much being said about outward obedience or self power. Will get no rewards for any work from that.
.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

to be in a rite stand with god,



never took an action
why do you pray, why do you read the bible. why are you still looking for god. etc

if seek first his kingdom, the righteousness will be added to you or you already have been given righteousness
the day you first believed.

if you already have a correct standing, dose a child of god ,need to grow. or keep wining about something , it never understood, the first day, it became a child.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Romans 8.2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The Law of Christ is the 2 commandments he gave us...we have an obligation to follow those 2 commandments...
I think Roger is speaking of this scripture:

Rom 4:13 For the promise that he would inherit the world did not come to Abraham or to his descendants through the Law, but through the righteousness produced by faith.


Rom 4:14 For if those who were given the Law are the heirs, then faith is useless and the promise is worthless,


Rom 4:15 for the Law produces wrath. Now where there is no Law, neither can there be any violation of it.


Rom 4:16 Therefore, the promise is based on faith, so that it may be a matter of grace and may be guaranteed for all of Abraham's descendants—not only for those who were given the Law, but also for those who share the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.

In particular verse 15