Not By Works

[garee]

I see that a little differently. Christ is the just and justifier of our new born again faith. We are saved by works like Abraham and Rehab but not of our own selves. It is Christ who works in us to both will and perform that which he appoints to us. He who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases He alone makes our heart soft. If he has begun the good work of creating new creatures he will finish the work.

We are justified according to His will and he continually washes us with the water of the word therefore sanctifying us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just (justification)to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse(sanctification) us from all unrighteousness.

To sanctify, coming from the word saint, simply mean set apart for His good purpose as a imputed righteousness.

God puts no difference between a Old testemnt born again saint as one sanctified (set aside for His purpose) as He would for a new testament saint. Purifying both by the water of the word, if we walk by faith (the unseen eternal)

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:7-9

 

[JIMBO43]

Your post here makes not a lick of sense. If you KNOW he's not a nazi, then why even call him one? He could compare you to a nazi, but he hasn't..

And that's Ms. Ladybug to you.. LOL

You must be loon if ya couldnt work that out sorry but lick of sence makes no sence to me as surely sence is not licking ?.

 

[dcontroversal]

Funny then that many of God's choicest saints had long periods of infirmity

AMEN....and even JESUS learned to be obedient by the things which he suffered......many never see this principle!

 

[PeterJens]

Not hardly Fran.....the spirit is sanctified positionally in Christ eternally

The flesh and our walk needs daily sanctification....

it is not that hard to grasp unless one is not saved or refuses to acknowledge the truth

Ok. dc is saying he is a passive participant of the Kingdom, he does not need to do
anything. In this theology a rock is alive in Christ, the light of Christ is darkness,
salt is just dirty water in which anything will grow because nothing has been resolved.

Live like the world because you can have Jesus and all you desire.
This is not even Godliness, it is just religion without any principles, just nice songs.

Get the theology wrong and you have sand. People want faith, but on their terms, lol.

 

[FranC]

Ok. dc is saying he is a passive participant of the Kingdom, he does not need to do
anything. In this theology a rock is alive in Christ, the light of Christ is darkness,
salt is just dirty water in which anything will grow because nothing has been resolved.

Live like the world because you can have Jesus and all you desire.
This is not even Godliness, it is just religion without any principles, just nice songs.

Get the theology wrong and you have sand. People want faith, but on their terms, lol.

There are not too many doctrine I care to take part in. The reason this one interests me is because of those reading along.
People here can blieve what they want to believe, but what if a new Christian is reading a post like this?
Will he get the idea that you speak of above?

Jesus did everything. So we have to do nothing. Sounds good. Too bad it isn't true.
If a person just opens their spirit and their mind and reads the New Testament, they'll find that Jesus instructed us on many things that need to be done for the Kingdom of God on earth.

A very important one is Mathew 5, the Beatitudes. Our entire DEMEANOR is to be changed, and, quite frankly, some persons here do not demonstrate that change.

Jesus said, By this shall all men know that you are my disciples --- that you love one another. (sorry no bible available)

He also said IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments.
What are those commandments? Maybe He said it because He meant it?

Who am I to believe, Jesus or those who tell me I'm already sanctified when I know sanctification is an ongoing EFFORT of mine.

An effort that is not under the Law, but under Grace. After being born again one WANTS to follow the Law, The moral Law has not been abolished and MUST be followed.

Why else would Jesus, Paul and the others, exhort us to OBEY.

I'm sure it's all just words and we all here wish to do the good that God would want us to do.
I just like it to be clear for those following along...

 

[Grace777x70]

Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[dcontroversal]

There are not too many doctrine I care to take part in. The reason this one interests me is because of those reading along.
People here can blieve what they want to believe, but what if a new Christian is reading a post like this?
Will he get the idea that you speak of above?

Jesus did everything. So we have to do nothing. Sounds good. Too bad it isn't true.
If a person just opens their spirit and their mind and reads the New Testament, they'll find that Jesus instructed us on many things that need to be done for the Kingdom of God on earth.

A very important one is Mathew 5, the Beatitudes. Our entire DEMEANOR is to be changed, and, quite frankly, some persons here do not demonstrate that change.

Jesus said, By this shall all men know that you are my disciples --- that you love one another. (sorry no bible available)

He also said IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments.
What are those commandments? Maybe He said it because He meant it?

Who am I to believe, Jesus or those who tell me I'm already sanctified when I know sanctification is an ongoing EFFORT of mine.

An effort that is not under the Law, but under Grace. After being born again one WANTS to follow the Law, The moral Law has not been abolished and MUST be followed.

Why else would Jesus, Paul and the others, exhort us to OBEY.

I'm sure it's all just words and we all here wish to do the good that God would want us to do.
I just like it to be clear for those following along...

And exactly why you are still missing the mark Fran....and we give you verses like the one in Hebrews which states that he has PERFECTED Forever those who have BEEN SANCTIFIED<----PAST TENSE and yet you reject and argue in favor of Catholic dogma.......

SO...keep believing that YOU HELP JESUS when it comes to your salvation, and refuse to rest and TRUST in his completed work..........

GALATIANS 1 and 3 state clearly that ALL who believe this are FOOLISH and BEWITCHED.....TRAGIC!

Explain the bolded in grammatical terms! IT IS PAST TENSE

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

 

[dcontroversal]

Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

WORKS will never save, keep saved, facilitate salvation on any level....WHY......

a. Works are the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ
b. ANY WORK done is JESUS doing the work through us and not of ourselves

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are not too many doctrine I care to take part in. The reason this one interests me is because of those reading along.
People here can blieve what they want to believe, but what if a new Christian is reading a post like this?
Will he get the idea that you speak of above?

Jesus did everything. So we have to do nothing. Sounds good. Too bad it isn't true.
If a person just opens their spirit and their mind and reads the New Testament, they'll find that Jesus instructed us on many things that need to be done for the Kingdom of God on earth.

A very important one is Mathew 5, the Beatitudes. Our entire DEMEANOR is to be changed, and, quite frankly, some persons here do not demonstrate that change.

Jesus said, By this shall all men know that you are my disciples --- that you love one another. (sorry no bible available)

He also said IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments.
What are those commandments? Maybe He said it because He meant it?

Who am I to believe, Jesus or those who tell me I'm already sanctified when I know sanctification is an ongoing EFFORT of mine.

An effort that is not under the Law, but under Grace. After being born again one WANTS to follow the Law, The moral Law has not been abolished and MUST be followed.

Why else would Jesus, Paul and the others, exhort us to OBEY.

I'm sure it's all just words and we all here wish to do the good that God would want us to do.
I just like it to be clear for those following along...

I think you worded it wrong.

Jesus did everything BECAUSE WE COULD do nothing.

If we could do anything, Jesus owuld not have to do anything. ie, He died in the cross and suffered the wrath we deserve for nothing.

But BECAUSE Jesus did everything, We can be saved, and do the works God created us to do. (IE, there is no such things as a couch potato christian who never did anything his whole christian life.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think you worded it wrong.

Jesus did everything BECAUSE WE COULD do nothing.

If we could do anything, Jesus owuld not have to do anything. ie, He died in the cross and suffered the wrath we deserve for nothing.

But BECAUSE Jesus did everything, We can be saved, and do the works God created us to do. (IE, there is no such things as a couch potato christian who never did anything his whole christian life.

Have you noticed...am sure you have...that EVERYBODY that pushes a working for sinless dogma will embellish and or imply things about our belief and or what we teach so as to support their dogma to the detriment of what we say....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you noticed...am sure you have...that EVERYBODY that pushes a working for sinless dogma will embellish and or imply things about our belief and or what we teach so as to support their dogma to the detriment of what we say....

yep all you have to do is change one word, and it makes it say something totally different. But unless people pay attention, they may miss what really happened. and believe it.

 

[dcontroversal]

yep all you have to do is change one word, and it makes it say something totally different. But unless people pay attention, they may miss what really happened. and believe it.

I hear ya........and it is rather tragic to say the least.....

 

[PeterJens]

There are not too many doctrine I care to take part in. The reason this one interests me is because of those reading along.
People here can blieve what they want to believe, but what if a new Christian is reading a post like this?
Will he get the idea that you speak of above?

Jesus did everything. So we have to do nothing. Sounds good. Too bad it isn't true.
If a person just opens their spirit and their mind and reads the New Testament, they'll find that Jesus instructed us on many things that need to be done for the Kingdom of God on earth.

A very important one is Mathew 5, the Beatitudes. Our entire DEMEANOR is to be changed, and, quite frankly, some persons here do not demonstrate that change.

Jesus said, By this shall all men know that you are my disciples --- that you love one another. (sorry no bible available)

He also said IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments.
What are those commandments? Maybe He said it because He meant it?

Who am I to believe, Jesus or those who tell me I'm already sanctified when I know sanctification is an ongoing EFFORT of mine.

An effort that is not under the Law, but under Grace. After being born again one WANTS to follow the Law, The moral Law has not been abolished and MUST be followed.

Why else would Jesus, Paul and the others, exhort us to OBEY.

I'm sure it's all just words and we all here wish to do the good that God would want us to do.
I just like it to be clear for those following along...

Love is not passive, it seeks a way, it is restless, it forever hopes, forever persevers, it desires
to find a way through, it sees a need and reaches out to meet it.

The lost world is a sad empty place with people falling into destruction not knowing why or how
they got there. Jesus is offering a way out, a real light in the darkness, something that will
make your heart sing, sing from the highest height to the lowest depths. It is something that is
eternal and nothing in human behaviour can overcome it or constrain it. Once you try and tame
this love, it will break free and find some new way of expressing itself. Force conformity on people
and it will be over thrown

 

[dcontroversal]

DID Peter say something....oh that's right....I cannot see it because I got tired of the embellishments, deceit, altered statements, misapplied verbiage and deception......

AHHHH it is nice to not see it......what a refreshing change!

 

[dcontroversal]

Even though we are not save by works but all of us Christians has been called for good work as it is written, "Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works (Titus 2:14)."

AMEN...saved UNTO good works....not BY good works.....No one has disputed this....the works are the result of biblical salvation....not the means....

 

[dcontroversal]

so which is it peter.

Are you HOLY because GOD MADE YOU HOLY (it is his righteousness)

or are you HOLY because of how good you are?


it is Gods righteousness or your righteousness which gets you to heaven?

and finally, If we are holy because GOD made us holy, How could we ever become UNHOLY again? Does God fail?

All are excellent questions.......Is God's holiness enough....I would say for sure.....Now the "cake taker" on the other, hand needs his own leavening to help God keep him holy it seems.....

 

[gb9]

All are excellent questions.......Is God's holiness enough....I would say for sure.....Now the "cake taker" on the other, hand needs his own leavening to help God keep him holy it seems.....

remember, the cake taker being referenced here deals in feelings and emotions, not actual facts.

 

[JESUSGOSPEL]

PRAISE THE LORD DEAR SAINTS AND MEN OF GOD SHALOM.
THE LORD IS saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit,
saith the Lord of hosts.

BECAUSE OF HIS GRACE ,HIS AGAPE LOVE TOWARDS THE WORLD. WE ARE LIVING SAFE AND COOL. AMEN

JOHN 3:16- 18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

PRAISE THE LORD DEAR SAINTS AND MEN OF GOD SHALOM.
THE LORD IS saying,
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit,
saith the Lord of hosts.

BECAUSE OF HIS GRACE ,HIS AGAPE LOVE TOWARDS THE WORLD. WE ARE LIVING SAFE AND COOL. AMEN

JOHN 3:16- 18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

AMEN....it is all JESUS, his faith, his righteousness, his justification, his blood and exactly why ALL glory goes to GOD and not men.....

 

[dcontroversal]

remember, the cake taker being referenced here deals in feelings and emotions, not actual facts.

Yes.....yes indeed........!