Not By Works

[7777pinacled]

(1) Adonai says to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies
your footstool.”

2 Adonai will send your powerful scepter
out from Tziyon,
so that you will rule over
your enemies around you.
3 On the day your forces mobilize,
your people willingly offer themselves
in holy splendors from the womb of the dawn;
the dew of your youth is yours.

4 Adonai has sworn it,
and he will never retract —
“You are a cohen forever,
to be compared with Malki-Tzedek.”

5 Adonai at your right hand
will shatter kings on the day of his anger.
6 He will pass judgment among the nations,
filling it with dead bodies;
he will shatter heads
throughout an extensive territory.
7 He will drink from a stream as he goes on his way;
therefore he will hold his head high.



2 Corinthians 6
6 As God’s fellow-workers we also urge you not to receive his grace and then do nothing with it. 2 For he says,

“At the acceptable time I heard you;
in the day of salvation I helped you.”

3 We try not to put obstacles in anyone’s path, so that no one can find fault with the work we do. 4 On the contrary, we try to commend ourselves in every way as workers for God by continually enduring troubles, hardships, calamities, 5 beatings, imprisonments, riots, overwork, lack of sleep and food. 6 We commend ourselves by our purity, knowledge, patience and kindness; by the Ruach HaKodesh; by genuineness of love 7 and truthfulness of speech; and by God’s power.

We commend ourselves through our use of righteous weapons, whether for pressing our cause or defending it; 8 through being honored and dishonored, praised and blamed, considered deceptive and sincere, 9 unknown and famous. And we commend ourselves as God’s workers headed for death, yet look! we’re alive! as punished, yet not killed; 10 as having reason to be sad, yet always filled with joy; as poor, yet making many people rich; as having nothing, yet having everything!

Here is what Adonai says:
“At the time when I choose, I will answer you;
on the day of salvation, I will help you.
I have preserved you, and I have appointed you
to be the covenant for a people,
to restore the land and distribute again
its ruined inheritances to their owners,
9 to say to the prisoners, ‘Come out!’
to those in darkness, ‘Show yourselves!’
They will feed along the paths,
and all the high hills will be their pastures.
10 They will be neither hungry nor thirsty;
neither scorching wind nor sun will strike them;
for he who has mercy on them will lead them
and guide them to springs of water.
11 I will turn all my mountains into a road,
my highways will be raised up.
12 There they come, some from far away,
some from the north, some from the west,
and some from the land of Sinim.”

13 Sing, heaven! Rejoice, earth!
Break out in song, you mountains!
For Adonai is comforting his people,
having mercy on his own who have suffered.

 

[UnderGrace]

Again is this about a person's personal knowledge of their own status in Christ?

OR you being able to identify people as saved (born again) and not saved (not born again)?

Two very different things.

I agree with some of what you say, but you are confusing these together ...which confuses me.

That's right. And we know if we have his righteousness to save us from the fire by if we are changed/changing people. People who don't live changed/changing lives can't know for sure if they have his righteousness applied to their account through faith or not.

The Holy Spirit is the proof of salvation. It is the mark, the seal, that protects the righteous from destruction. The presence of the Holy Spirit-the mark of salvation-is revealed in us in the fruit of the Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is the mark in our flesh, the circumcision that shows that we are in covenant with God through Christ, just as literal circumcision was the mark in the flesh that showed that a person was in covenant with God through Moses.

 

[stonesoffire]

That's right. And we know if we have his righteousness to save us from the fire by if we are changed/changing people. People who don't live changed/changing lives can't know for sure if they have his righteousness applied to their account through faith or not.

The Holy Spirit is the proof of salvation. It is the mark, the seal, that protects the righteous from destruction. The presence of the Holy Spirit-the mark of salvation-is revealed in us in the fruit of the Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is the mark in our flesh, the circumcision that shows that we are in covenant with God through Christ, just as literal circumcision was the mark in the flesh that showed that a person was in covenant with God through Moses.

Just wondering which fruit Jesus was speaking out of when He called the Pharisees, white-washed sepulchers full of dead mans bones, or sons of vipers.

The scripture says its the Spirit of Christ without which no man is His.

And Paul called teachers of law false brethren.

 

[Ralph-]

Again is this about a person's personal knowledge of their own status in Christ?

OR you being able to identify people as saved (born again) and not saved (not born again)?

Both really. John said that it's obvious who the children of the devil are and who the children of God are by if they do right and love others (for all that defines godly love). And we know from the whole counsel of God that what this means is we know who belongs to God and who does not by if their life is characterized as being a new life that is being lived for Christ.

But mainly it's about being able to tell if our own salvation is a sure thing by if we can see the Holy Spirit at work in our lives. People who can't see Christ forming in them like a baby forms in a woman (Galatians 4:19) have no confirmation and assurance that they have the promises of God applied to their lives through faith or not. To that person the once saved always saved doctrine is especially meaningless since they can't even know for sure if they're even saved in the first place for it to matter.

The bottom line is, assurance of salvation comes through seeing the mark of the Holy Spirit in our flesh. Those who can see that the deeds of the flesh have been put off in a spiritual circumcision of the heart in salvation by the Holy Spirit know for sure that they are saved and ready to meet Christ when he comes. They don't have to wonder or be afraid of Christ's return. They can see the evidence of the presence of the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works.

 

[stonesoffire]

Here is what Adonai says:
“At the time when I choose, I will answer you;
on the day of salvation, I will help you.
I have preserved you, and I have appointed you
to be the covenant for a people,
to restore the land and distribute again
its ruined inheritances to their owners,
9 to say to the prisoners, ‘Come out!’
to those in darkness, ‘Show yourselves!’
They will feed along the paths,
and all the high hills will be their pastures.
10 They will be neither hungry nor thirsty;
neither scorching wind nor sun will strike them;
for he who has mercy on them will lead them
and guide them to springs of water.
11 I will turn all my mountains into a road,
my highways will be raised up.
12 There they come, some from far away,
some from the north, some from the west,
and some from the land of Sinim.”

13 Sing, heaven! Rejoice, earth!
Break out in song, you mountains!
For Adonai is comforting his people,
having mercy on his own who have suffered.

Just say what you want to say plainly Pin.

 

[Budman]

To that person the once saved always saved doctrine is especially meaningless since they can't even know for sure if they're even saved in the first place for it to matter.

Wrong.....again.

"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." (Romans 8:16)

 

[Ralph-]

Wrong.....again.

"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children." (Romans 8:16)

Ah, yes, just as expected.

When you suppress the Spirit through disobedience you lose the witness of the Spirit. The manifest presence of the Spirit is conditioned on you obeying the Spirit.

21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”-John 14:21

No loving obedience results in no manifest presence and witness of the love of the Spirit. Jesus said so.

 

[Ralph-]

Budman, you need to stop defending the hypocrisy of the new grace movement in the church today.

People who say they are saved but don't live for Christ either don't know him, or are trampling on his blood in contempt of the free gift. Either way, they will not enter into the kingdom when Jesus comes back.

 

[Ralph-]

Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.

 

[Budman]

When you suppress the Spirit through disobedience you lose the witness of the Spirit. The manifest presence of the Spirit is conditioned on you obeying the Spirit.

Wrong....again.

The Holy Spirit is God, and the bible says God will never leave us nor forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

 

[Budman]

Budman, you need to stop defending the hypocrisy of the new grace movement in the church today.

People who say they are saved but don't live for Christ either don't know him, or are trampling on his blood in contempt of the free gift. Either way, they will not enter into the kingdom when Jesus comes back.

It's so odd you can't see your contradictions when you post.

If I must work to get saved or remain saved, then salvation is NOT a "free gift."

 

[Budman]

Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.

Too late. We already are.

 

[dcontroversal]

Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.

It should read.....I Ralph apologize for falsely accusing many in this thread for saying they can live any way they want, I have consistently twisted what they have said, erroneously accused them while embellishing what they have said to make myself look right and them wrong and I have regularly vacillated on what I believe when caught in many erroneous interpretations...........

 

[dcontroversal]

Too late. We already are.

AMEN.....where sin abounds GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND.........of course by saying that it automatically means I live like the "Debil Bobby Bouche" and do as I please because I for sure believe in eternal security.............

 

[stonesoffire]

Actually, I have some agreement with Ralph about carrying the Presence. The Spirit within us will never leave us. this is true. But, His Presence upon us is the anointing to do the works of God.

Not good works to one another, but the works that Jesus did.

This is from intimacy with the Lord. Spending time with Him, fasting, and hearing His Voice. This is the Christ, the anointing of God upon us.

Its relationship ralph.

Also, even in this He doesn't leave us. He will wait for us to draw near. Then He comes in power.

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually, I have some agreement with Ralph about carrying the Presence. The Spirit within us will never leave us. this is true. But, His Presence upon us is the anointing to do the works of God.

Not good works to one another, but the works that Jesus did.

This is from intimacy with the Lord. Spending time with Him, fasting, and hearing His Voice. This is the Christ, the anointing of God upon us.

Its relationship ralph.

Also, even in this He doesn't leave us. He will wait for us to draw near. Then He comes in power.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word

John---> The SPIRIT IS THE TRUTH <----Two definite articles and a "BE" verb.................and regardless of one's actions THE SPIRIT will ALWAYS ACCOMPANY the WORD....

I cite the following proof

Paul said some were preaching out of love, some out of contention and spite to make PAUL look BAD.....end result...PAUL was happy because the power is in the message not the messenger and the word was being proclaimed.....

 

[Chester]

{

Originally Posted by Ralph-

Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.}​

It should read.....I Ralph apologize for falsely accusing many in this thread for saying they can live any way they want, I have consistently twisted what they have said, erroneously accused them while embellishing what they have said to make myself look right and them wrong and I have regularly vacillated on what I believe when caught in many erroneous interpretations...........

Wonder why we so easily accuse one another of not even being born again? I think it would be simpler to just kindly debate these doctrinal issues without making statements or conclusions about another's eternal destiny.

 

[dcontroversal]

{

Originally Posted by Ralph-

Time to get right with Christ, Freegracers.}​

Wonder why we so easily accuse one another of not even being born again? I think it would be simpler to just kindly debate these doctrinal issues without making statements or conclusions about another's eternal destiny.

Did I do that in my post.......I do not believe I did....and is it biblical or not to judge one's gospel by the truth?

If I told you that I believed that I could be saved by killing 1000 rabbits what would you conclude based upon the bible and my statement?

 

[stonesoffire]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word

John---> The SPIRIT IS THE TRUTH <----Two definite articles and a "BE" verb.................and regardless of one's actions THE SPIRIT will ALWAYS ACCOMPANY the WORD....

I cite the following proof

Paul said some were preaching out of love, some out of contention and spite to make PAUL look BAD.....end result...PAUL was happy because the power is in the message not the messenger and the word was being proclaimed.....

Yes, signs follow the preaching of the Word. But, that's not what I am addressing here Dcon. Im talking about the consecrated life that precedes the preaching of the Word.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, signs follow the preaching of the Word. But, that's not what I am addressing here Dcon. Im talking about the consecrated life that precedes the preaching of the Word.

And I would say that ALL who are saved are in a process of sanctification and consecration......and that a lost man who has just been saved and has had no growth whatsoever at all has the witness in him and that we cannot undermine the POWER of God's Spirit to shine through our imperfections and or failures to bring out the witness and testimony of GOD......