Not By Works

[LightLoveHope]

we are called to walk like this. we do stumble. but, that " stumbling " is called SIN. calling it less it being in denial.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
James 2:10

Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God--
even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved
1 Corinthians 10:32-33

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
Romans 14:20

We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
James 3:2

Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble.
1 John 2:10

Some appear totally ignorant about stumbling, and what scripture says about it.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

 

[benhur]

[



Until you acknowledge context you will continue to miss the mark and apply scripture erroneously...the bible teaches eternal security regardless of your wilful ignorance of it!

Please tell me the 'context' of the parable of the merciful king? Then maybe I will understand better.

And after you have explained the context, then explain the ending where the one big debtor that was saved, was eventually thrown in prison to be tortured until every last cent was paid back. And why was he unsaved? Because he did not forgive his small debtor. Explain that ending 'in context' and how it relates to the OSAS scenerio.

And remember Jesus's words, "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses". Matthew 18:35.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In my journeys I've come across people who seem to believe that salvation is by grace apart from faith. They didn't actually say that, but their faith seemed to be in the new birth more so than in Christ himself to be able to obey him and walk a straight path. In other words, since they believed once and became a spiritual being, how they acted was really important because being a spirit being is forever. I actually had one guy who believed this way say that a person could believe, commit apostasy and still be saved. A mind-boggling belief when compared with the witness of scripture.

I made a typo in the bolded above. This is what I meant to say

"In other words, since they believed once and became a spiritual being, how they acted was really not important because being a spirit being is forever."

 

[benhur]

Of course a CLAIMED faith can not save you. Only true living faith can save you. And WHOEVER has true living faith will show works.

So, if you don't show works, then you are only claiming to have faith.

If you do show works, for the wrong reasons, then you still are just claiming faith. And the Father never knew you.

If you do show works, for the right reasons, then you have real faith.

Do you see how faith and works are tied together. One without the other is eternal dead. Both together = eternal life.

 

[VCO]

The way it sounds , you do believe that even a DEAD FAITH can save you since you can no longer deny it otherwise you'll have to admit that you were wrong which i think is not in your vocabulary.

So you can call everyone else names and mock them but you do admit that your faith is dead and JUST AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

I have told you BEFORE, that WE DO NOT SEE WORKS AS PART OF SALVATION.


We see WORKS as a Natural By Product of our NEW NATURE (BORN AGAIN), Motivated by GOD's LOVE, that HE had the HOLY SPIRIT POUR INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5.
GOD's LOVE will come Out of US, especially in how we will treat a Brother in NEED.


1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?



SO your accusation about DEAD FAITH, is WRONG, because that is a PRETEND CHRISTIAN, who has NEVER been BORN AGAIN. In other words, he is a psuedo-christian.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

 

[benhur]

Already answered this 100 times in this thread..not my fault your religion does not allow you to see the truth or your ability to accept the answers already given by numerous people in this thread...Faith is what saves and justifies a man before God....not works......wake up!

Faith without works does not save. See our favorite parable, the parable of the merciful king in Matthew 18. The good works that this parable focuses on is forgiveness, see Matthew 6:15.

 

[benhur]

dcon been dealing with the same arguments and answering honestly but being attacked with false accusations for a loooong time


it saddens me when i see people make the strawmen and lies against any of my brothers and sisters in Christ...

then even when they are proven wrong about their false claims and lie

they continue making strawmen
blame shifting
and avoiding the actual issue at hand


truth......

Is it attacking, when we brothers and sisters in the gospel, do not agree 100% in decon's theology? Why can we not disagree without being shamed? Are we not fellow Christians in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It makes him sick to think of us and our sickening doctrine. Hello.

 

[benhur]

No need to be discouraged....think about Jesus...everyone forsook him, yet he set his face like flint and bore his cross ....pour gas on the false dogmas and light em up friend.....keep swinging and fight the good fight!

Are you going to pour gas on false bible dogma and light em up friend? Keep swinging and fight against those that do not believe in our strict and narrow reading of the bible. Is that how it works? Pour gas on the bible and light it up friend.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I made a typo in the bolded above. This is what I meant to say

"In other words, since they believed once and became a spiritual being, how they acted was really not important because being a spirit being is forever."

I think dcontroversal and budman would agree that this is their true state.

dcontroversal said the 90% of the church is doomed, even if he does not know them.
I find this level of judgementalism slightly amusing and comical, when I am accused of
being judgemental to say we need to walk in Jesus's ways to show love flowing from
our hearts through the Holy Spirit.

I would be interested to know which fellowship he belongs to, because this sounds
slightly worse than the strict and particular baptists or plymouth brethren.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I have told you BEFORE, that WE DO NOT SEE WORKS AS PART OF SALVATION.

We see WORKS as a Natural By Product of our NEW NATURE (BORN AGAIN), Motivated by GOD's LOVE, that HE had the HOLY SPIRIT POUR INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5.
GOD's LOVE will come Out of US, especially in how we will treat a Brother in NEED.

1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?

SO your accusation about DEAD FAITH, is WRONG, because that is a PRETEND CHRISTIAN, who has NEVER been BORN AGAIN. In other words, he is a psuedo-christian.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

Hi vco,

I have been reminded of the eternal spirit given from heaven into the new believer
which they can never lose when they come to faith.
Now this spirit is said to be perfect, mature, holy and pure.

Is this your belief system, a kind of duality in the body of a believer, the flesh, sinful,
the new spirit, perfect?

I know that not all follow this idea, so I was wondering, based on your spiritual
history, how you view these things? I never want to project on others, but see
what their thinking is, as best I can.

 

[TruthTalk]

I wish people would stop claiming one verse in the entire canon of scripture, "faith without works is dead." Its been gone over and over again, we are saved, "unto good works that God has prepared before hand that we should walk in them"; Eph2:10. We are not saved by our beautiful wonderful works otherwise you are boasting in your works. Saved "unto good works, not by them."

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Romans10:13

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Is it attacking, when we brothers and sisters in the gospel, do not agree 100% in decon's theology? Why can we not disagree without being shamed? Are we not fellow Christians in the gospel of Jesus Christ. It makes him sick to think of us and our sickening doctrine. Hello.

no

i do not consider those who preach a false gospel and deny the true gospel with no attempt to truely listen a brother or sister in Christ...

they worship some false god
it shows in their fruits

especially when they attack my brothers and sister with

false accusations

out right lies

strawmen


of course there are also sheep in error here
none of us are all knowing
and many of us can be stubborn

but His sheep hear His voice

i came here in serious error
(sinless perfection doctrine.... all about self works no glory to Jesus) even after multiple trips through the bible
one night i prayed to God to remove itching ears if i had them

i told Him i dont care if i look silly
please help me

even if ive been wrong about everything
i will start all over i just want to see what you want me to see Father....

please show me the truth so i can have your will in my life

(paraphrasing)

God opened my eyes

little by little

all the scriptures that before seemed to mean one thing
some which seemed to even kind of conflict with others

all opened up as i kept praying and reading


God has been blessing me greatly ever since with His truth


i hope those here in error as i was seek God and stop relying on their own understanding

their own works

because there is no power in either


only His truth
only His works have power to save anyone

 

[ljs]

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Galatians 1:6-8

I am assuming you are claiming I am failing to fulfill the gospel Paul is preaching.
Now I can easily say to anybody they are not preaching what Paul is teaching,
yet without actually adding the detail, it is just an empty and meaningless accusation.

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
Gal 2:20-21

Now I believe in salvation by faith alone.
I also believe He provides the power to change us through sanctification into the
image of Christ.

Are you saying there is something wrong with this?

No , nothing wrong with what you just said at all , however sanctification & maturity in Christ (submitting to & walking in the spirit , obedience , doing good works ) is a different thing from salvation , and shouldnt be added on to the FREE GIFT that Jesus Christ offers to all who believe ON him !

Of course I believe he provides the Holy Spirits power ( once we are saved )to change us through sanctification ! After all , the Spirit indwells us at the moment we are saved & We should grow and mature in our faith !
But salvation comes first , and that is a free gift , and is received by believing the Gospel
1st Cor 15 1-4

 

[LightLoveHope]

no
i do not consider those who preach a false gospel and deny the true gospel with no attempt to truely listen a brother or sister in Christ...
they worship some false god
it shows in their fruits
especially when they attack my brothers and sister with
false accusations
out right lies
strawmen

Hi NNM,

You say such strong things about positions which are not clear cut or simple.
This is dangerous for you.

I suspect when you came to this site to put down the enemy, you were the same.
But you switched sides, and decided the enemy was the one you came to defend.

But unfortunately for people who come for a fight, that is what they get and not
love or the truth or peace or Jesus. Maybe you love the idea of a mission, that
this group here are wrong, this group there are right, and it just takes these ideas to
turn one group into the other.

I was once confronted with an ardent communist who told me why I was witnessing,
what I believed and what my objectives were. He was mistaken, but it did not stop him
being very forceful.

You sound exactly the same, not able to have real examples, but blasting away for all
your worth. I actually do not mind, it is rather like a dust storm coming raging in, and
when gone nothing has changed, except for a little dirt here and there.

Do you want more than this, or is this all you have?

 

[benhur]

Come on now that's a "ridiculous question" considering you are "pulling strings" making the post "in your favor" so how is dcontroversal supposed to answer your question if you already have it "set in your mind" what the answer is and just trying to "bait" him so as to "look correct"!?
A "rhetorical question" so I suppose "answer yourself" since you "don't actually want an answer from anyone else" especially dcontroversal.

The question is surely appropriate. Can a dead faith save you? We know a live and dynamic faith can save, because we know live and dynamic because of good works. But can a dead faith save you. The obvious answer is no. If you have a different answer then let us know. Thanks.

 

[benhur]

dcon been dealing with the same arguments and answering honestly but being attacked with false accusations for a loooong time


it saddens me when i see people make the strawmen and lies against any of my brothers and sisters in Christ...

then even when they are proven wrong about their false claims and lie

they continue making strawmen
blame shifting
and avoiding the actual issue at hand


truth......

Sorry, decon does not always answer, and then he does not always answer honestly. He has a condescending, mocking attitude and only answers according to his strict and narrow reading of the scriptures, which ignores many of the sayings and parables of Jesus.

Just ask him what happened to the debtor that was saved by the merciful king from his sins? Where did that debtor end up? And why did he end up there?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Do you want more than this, or is this all you have?

i barely skimmed through your post because all i see from you are lies and strawmen
:/

but i did read the opening and ending comments

i fear your mind has turned from the simplicity that is in Christ

i hope God opens your eyes...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Sorry, decon does not always answer honestly.

would you like to back up your claim he was dishonest?

 

[benhur]

The first thing a cult leader tries to do is tear down his cult followers, so that he can control them, isolate and dominate.

Repent and believe the Gospel

Have you been in a cult before?

 

[benhur]

I made a typo in the bolded above. This is what I meant to say

"In other words, since they believed once and became a spiritual being, how they acted was really not important because being a spirit being is forever."

You are aware that many people(gracers)(decon+) on this forum believe that, and they are sick when people mention their beliefs that are not 100% in line with their beliefs. A very interesting attitude for a Christian toward other Christians.