Not By Works

[benhur]

You will continue to be in error until you acknowledge that Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the NEW COVENANT which superceded the OLD...and the parable is directed at the legalizing JEWS/ and disciples who were living by the letter of the law while ignoring that which is found in the NEW which was coming on line.....the words of JESUS must be understood in light of this truth....reject if you like...your pseudo blend of grace and law/works will save no one! And it has nothing to do with salvation

That is an interesting theory. Tell me what difference it makes if Jesus was born and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW?

For instance, are his words tainted somehow by the law?

For instance, are the words of Paul more relevent to the NT Christian and supercede Jesus' words which are somehow connected to the law of Moses?

For instance, are we then able to do away with the words of Jesus because he was born, and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES?

For instance, are we then able to reconcile the words of Paul and Jesus by dropping the words of Jesus, so that all we focus on is Pauls words so we can believe that by grace are we saved, not of works lest we boast. And we are saved the second we believe in Jesus. And no matter what we do in the future, we are assured eternal life.

Is that what you mean when you say I have to acknowledge that Jesus was born, and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES, WHICH RATTIFIED THE NEW TESTAMENT (PAUL), AND SUPERCEDED THE OLD TESTAMENT (JESUS)?

Please explain this theory?

 

[Shamah]

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Mark 10:45, “For even the Son of Aḏam did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

John/Yahanan 7:16-17, “Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority.”

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So then, are you saying that your first thought, Blinded you to what I was saying.

Oh come now. You really couldn't see that I was agreeing and further expounding...?

 

[Cee]

I believe Jesus died to the Law Himself. Because we died with Him. And now we are reborn into His freedom.

 

[Cee]

The lie here is that if people know they have to keep the Law that they will keep it. If that was true the Israelites under the Old Testament would have revealed it. But what do we see? Condemnation which is a focus on what NOT to do didn't work. You shall not's don't work. Because people in their heart know what they are supposed to do. They don't do it because they don't truly believe they are free. It's not until we find FREEDOM in Christ that we realize we are beyond our inner "natural" limitations. Teaching people their freedom in Christ actually causes people to keep the Law beyond what the Pharisees could. Teaching people they are NOT free and need to try to be free is insulting the Spirit of Grace. And as Paul says, those who believe they need to keep what they can't to be free - have fallen from Grace. And Grace is the empowerment to keep the highest law which is love. For we have been set free - free to love one another freely.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yes. They don't truly believe they are free/forgiven. They don't truly grasp just how forgiven they are. I agree cee.

 

[graceNpeace]

The lie here is that if people know they have to keep the Law that they will keep it. If that was true the Israelites under the Old Testament would have revealed it. But what do we see? Condemnation which is a focus on what NOT to do didn't work. You shall not's don't work. Because people in their heart know what they are supposed to do. They don't do it because they don't truly believe they are free. It's not until we find FREEDOM in Christ that we realize we are beyond our inner "natural" limitations. Teaching people their freedom in Christ actually causes people to keep the Law beyond what the Pharisees could. Teaching people they are NOT free and need to try to be free is insulting the Spirit of Grace. And as Paul says, those who believe they need to keep what they can't to be free - have fallen from Grace. And Grace is the empowerment to keep the highest law which is love. For we have been set free - free to love one another freely.

Cannot agree more, and have said so myself to this effect several times in this thread, however, 2900 pages of dispute unfortunately means that for many this is anathema...

 

[LightLoveHope]

Do believers when they are born again, are they given an eternal heavenly
new spirit, which is perfect, pure and holy and will be raised to eternal life
on the last day?

I know in theory some believe it, but maybe not here on cc.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That is an interesting theory. Tell me what difference it makes if Jesus was born and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW?

It is VERY important that He lived under the law!
Because by one mans disobedience, death and futility spread to all men. (And the whole creation, to boot.)
So it is fair that if by one mans disobedience, death spread to all, that by one mans obedience, life could come to all.

 

[joefizz]

I believe Jesus died to the Law Himself. Because we died with Him. And now we are reborn into His freedom.

Well not quite because he died for sins he didn't commit and remember even pilate "could find no fault in him" a man who had certainly "condemned" many a man to prison and crucifixion even willing to "release him" and the Pharisees in "their own court" brang "false witnesses" therefore even according to "law" he was "innocent" and "led like a lamb to the slaughter".

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Galatians 4:4-5
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 3:10-14
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[ElAmor]

New International Version 1984 Romans 8:1-4 Life Through the Spirit Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul was no intern, and he was not talking about making sure he was saved or headed to heaven, He knew he was going to heaven, Thats why he considered all his pain and suffering a momentary light affliction.

What pauyl was pushing for was the work God gave him to do in earth.

Salvation is not a prize, it is a GIFT. Paul was tryign to earn one of the many rewards God has in store for those of us who do the work.

Paul spoke of sanctification. Paul KNEW he was justified. Again you need to learn the difference.

Most have no understanding of this truth and erroneously apply daily sanctification with salvation

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry mate but no one is going to read the above.

You need to break it down into paragraphs.

The truth......the scripture is right, good and true....his interpretations on the other hand......not so much!

 

[dcontroversal]

dcontroversal, you clarify your spiritual blindness by this post.

It is like talking to a primary school child who thinks they understand something when
clearly two things are very different. I hope no one else other than eternally-gratefull
can be this stupid. It makes me wonder if you also are a holocaust denier.

If you cannot tell the difference between walking in love and faith and Jim Jones, probably.

Pj....just eat your cake and quit putting your foot into your mouth..serious you are really looking bad and your false allegations and pseudo xianity is giving Jesus a bad rap!

 

[ElAmor]

Most have no understanding of this truth and erroneously apply daily sanctification with salvation

originally posted by Seohce

Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)

It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.



THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”

THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.

Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

 

[dcontroversal]

That is an interesting theory. Tell me what difference it makes if Jesus was born and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW?

For instance, are his words tainted somehow by the law?

For instance, are the words of Paul more relevent to the NT Christian and supercede Jesus' words which are somehow connected to the law of Moses?

For instance, are we then able to do away with the words of Jesus because he was born, and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES?

For instance, are we then able to reconcile the words of Paul and Jesus by dropping the words of Jesus, so that all we focus on is Pauls words so we can believe that by grace are we saved, not of works lest we boast. And we are saved the second we believe in Jesus. And no matter what we do in the future, we are assured eternal life.

Is that what you mean when you say I have to acknowledge that Jesus was born, and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES, WHICH RATTIFIED THE NEW TESTAMENT (PAUL), AND SUPERCEDED THE OLD TESTAMENT (JESUS)?

Please explain this theory?

No need to explain if you cannot comprehend or understand my first statement....and your dogma would not allow you to grasp it anyway......I am confident that the words, "His words must be understood in the light of this truth" is self evident" and if you cannot grasp that simple principle...everything beyond it is a waste of time and effort!

 

[dcontroversal]

originally posted by Seohce

Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)

It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.



THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”

THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.

Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

There are no phases of salvation. It is a one off eternal event that is instantanious at the moment of belief with eternal consequence and present continuing results from a past completed action!

 

[Endoscopy]

Dear reader,

A strange thing some try and create artificial barriers that actually do not exist except in
their own minds. They will reject anyone they meet, thinking they know them and understand
their positions, when actually neither is true.

Most here I have no clue what their background is, their theological beliefs in detail are or
even if they really know the Lord. One guy believes in reincarnation, but talks very well.
Now I have no clue how far out he is, but if I can encourage him to learn more of Jesus and
read more of His word and seek inspiration from the Holy Spirit, I will say amen, I love sharing.

When I was part of an open brethren fellowship, we were the best church in the world.
Then I worked with believers who are RCC, strict and particular baptist, anglicans, charismatics,
and many others. I found some who would appeared to be believers turned out to be just following
their parents faith, and others who only had a simple grasp of the Lord, yet knew Him deeply.

So until I know people and their background and language, it is almost impossible to come to
meaningful conclusions. But here, on cc, too many are prepared to condemn people to hell because
of a few sentences. But then if your life is about declaring ones group above anything else,
it all makes sense, but can easily end up resisting the Lord and His work.

The early elders created the Apostles Creed to define who is and isn't a Christian. There was the Roman Creed in the second century. It was modified and upgraded in 341 to the Apostles Creed and comes down to us from that time. It is perfectly acceptable to disagree with anything not in the Creed but the Creed is the definition of a Christian.

THE APOSTLES CREED
() Not included in earliest manuscripts. The origin and date of the creed is unknown.

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth; And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. (He descended into Hell.) The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal 2 church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

Amen.

 

[Endoscopy]

That is an interesting theory. Tell me what difference it makes if Jesus was born and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW?

For instance, are his words tainted somehow by the law?

For instance, are the words of Paul more relevent to the NT Christian and supercede Jesus' words which are somehow connected to the law of Moses?

For instance, are we then able to do away with the words of Jesus because he was born, and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES?

For instance, are we then able to reconcile the words of Paul and Jesus by dropping the words of Jesus, so that all we focus on is Pauls words so we can believe that by grace are we saved, not of works lest we boast. And we are saved the second we believe in Jesus. And no matter what we do in the future, we are assured eternal life.

Is that what you mean when you say I have to acknowledge that Jesus was born, and lived, and died UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES, WHICH RATTIFIED THE NEW TESTAMENT (PAUL), AND SUPERCEDED THE OLD TESTAMENT (JESUS)?

Please explain this theory?

Jesus said the law was eternal and would last until heaven and earth disappear. Therefore everyone has lived under the law. Sin is transgression of the law. The importance of this is Jesus lived a life free of sin. Therefore being the unblemished Lamb of God and thus an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. If he sinned that would make his sacrifice meaningless and we would be doomed. That is the importance of Jesus being under the law and not sinning.