Not By Works

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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So people have to prove their faith for it to be real?
You explain these verses from James to me.

James 2 AMPC

14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I know the Passover was a little over a week ago, but I have this to share with you. Doesn't it seem strange that almost NO ARTIST ever pictures the PASSOVER TABLE correctly. But I found one that obviously was drawn by a JEW, because the Passover Table was pictured correctly, on TWO types of JEWISH TABLES, and NO, our images from our youth were all WRONG.




They reclined on cushions ALWAYS ON THEIR LEFT SIDE, because it is much easier to choke on your food while reclining on the right side. The one that is JESUS is on the right end of the table, CENTER. NOW can anyone tell me which one is Apostle JOHN?


John 21:17-22 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.


Now that is how most of us remember reading that account of the conversation at the LAST SUPPER, but NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY, to quote Paul Harvey. NOW you can see that the man directly in front of him on the upper right is the Apostle JOHN.

Look how much easier is this story is reading from the Holman's Christian Standard Bible:


John 21:17-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He asked him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved that He asked him the third time, “Do you love Me?” He said, “Lord, You know everything! You know that I love You.” “Feed My sheep,” Jesus said.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “I assure you: When you were young, you would tie your belt and walk wherever you wanted. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will tie you and carry you where you don’t want to go.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] He said this to signify by what kind of death he would glorify God. After saying this, He told him, “Follow Me!”
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So Peter turned around and saw the disciple Jesus loved following them. That disciple⌋ was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and asked, “Lord, who is the one that’s going to betray You?”
[SUP]21 [/SUP] When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord—what about him?”
[SUP]22 [/SUP] “If I want him to remain until I come,” Jesus answered, “what is that to you? As for you, follow Me.”


Now there is one more detail, that no one who has not studied Jewish Customs, would NOT PICK UP ON. The person WHO got to recline in front of the HOST, was the GUEST OF HONOR. Now you should be able to see a bit of Jealousy in Peter's question,
“Lord—what about him?”

Paints a WHOLE DIFFERENT PICTURE, when you see how the Table and the Guests were actually RECLINING.

Now the most common Table for the Passover Seder was a little different, and that was so that the women could easily enter the table to serve the guests. So the most common Table would have been the following; but either table were used.


 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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So people have to prove their faith for it to be real?
No we do not, and why, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." but you already new this I bet. People who want to add or mix God's Grace with works cannot for some reason separate the "free gift of God, which is their eternal salvation, and our on going service, worship and pursuit of holy living. They are two separate events that take place in the life of a born again Christian.

One event is our "position in Christ" and the other is our "life long practice" if you work for God's free gift, "our eternal salvation", then it is no longer a gift and you have fallen from grace. But for some reason I think you already understand this very basic theology. Eternal Salvation is a free gift from God, you cannot add works or it is no longer free, logical right?

I am righting this hoping that someone may benefit from understanding "By Grace Alone".....:)
 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Do we still have free will after conversion? Or are we mindless robots now, who cannot refuse anything good, nor do anything bad?

And again, just how many works are needed to "prove" we actually have saving faith?

Since you, and the others on this thread who support you, judge by appearance in regard to who is or isn't a believer, you would have to conclude that those such as Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., are definitely Christians because they are constantly doing works.
Amen Budman, for some reason people keep referring to James Ch2 and ignore 99 percent of the bible. When in fact like you said previously here; thank you for your biblical insight and God bless!

Works only justify us before men, not before God. Christians can have a dead (unproductive) faith and are still saved. It seems you want it both ways by using the word "required".
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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You explain these verses from James to me.

James 2 AMPC

14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
You responded to this Post:

Originally Posted by UnderGrace
So people have to prove their faith for it to be real?
Now, here is my understanding. We WILL want to obey, NOT HAVE TO OBEY, when the HOLY SPIRIT births our human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE. It is PART OF OUR NEW NATURE, that LOVE FOR GOD, and it actually comes from GOD himself, because of ROM.5:5.

SO, LOVE FOR GOD, COMES AFTER, GOD PUTS HIS LOVE IN US, BY HAVING THE HOLY SPIRIT POUR GOD'S LOVE IN OUR HEARTS = SALVATION. THEN AFTER THAT WE CAN LOVE GOD, AND LOVE FOR GOD IS OUR OBEDIENCE. SO IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE FOR GOD, and not part of our SALVATION.

AMEN!


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

….-JESUS HIMSELF TAUGHT THAT WE SHOULD OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

….Does the true Gospel teaches disobedience? NO!!!

The True Gospel teaches LOVE and OBEDIENCE and not DISOBEDIENCE.

So whoever is teaching that OBEDIENCE to the commandments cannot be added to FAITH for salvation is rejecting God’s and Jesus’ commands to walk in obedience to His commands and it is clear in the bible who they truly are. (2 john 1:1-11)

Romans 5:19 For just as through the DISOBEDIENCE of the one man the many were made SINNERS, so also through the OBEDIENCE of the one man the many will be made RIGHTEOUS.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Do we still have free will after conversion? Or are we mindless robots now, who cannot refuse anything good, nor do anything bad?

And again, just how many works are needed to "prove" we actually have saving faith?

Since you, and the others on this thread who support you, judge by appearance in regard to who is or isn't a believer, you would have to conclude that those such as Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., are definitely Christians because they are constantly doing works.
Belief into the Son = The works of the Heavenly Father......

His religion does not allow him to grasp the biblical truth of the above and or the fact that many saved children of God have works that do not quite measure up.....HE absolutely cannot grasp that it is faith and faith alone that saves a man before ONE work has been done or One piece of fruit has been produced.....and as long as he continually views it through his legalistic rose colored glasses he will never understand....thank GOD Jesus set us free from the religious constraints that are used to bind men to particular religious persuasions..........
 
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Amen Budman, for some reason people keep referring to James Ch2 and ignore 99 percent of the bible. When in fact like you said previously here; thank you for your biblical insight and God bless!
AMEN....not to mention it has been BIBLICALLY explained like over 1000 times in this thread....and the whole key is who he is taking about when it comes to our claim of faith being JUSTIFIED.....

ONE last TIME....maybe he will lose the religion, the apostle's creed and open his eyes to the bible....

ROMANS--->BEFORE GOD--->FAITH and FAITH ALONE justifies and saves a man ETERNALLY
JAMES-->The above FAITH is SEEN or CAN BE SEEN by MEN based upon our actions, deeds and works

SHOW ME YOU FAITH!!!!!!
 
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I see the working for, law keeping religionist is still peddling a self saving dogma......I can still see the dancing monkey with the street organ player in Bombay.........funny thing....I am fairly confidentt that NO one in this thread has denied that JESUS came in the flesh and or pushed disobedience....
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.

Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE YET we wait for it patiently.

2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.

THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE JUDGMENT ANYMORE?

Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your souls.


SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”


JESUS SAID;

“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15


…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17


“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john 14:21-24


THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.””””””””



WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17) WE HONOR AND GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)

Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”


1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.


2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from
God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” ))james 2:14-26)


“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
 
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You can keep posting this drivel all day long.....

Salvation is spoken of in all three tenses...and it is current possession with present continuing results (GREEK VERB TENSE)

and your view belies the fact that you have nu understanding of the judgment of GOD.....

BEMA SEAT of CHRIST ----->FOR the SAVED <----REWARDED for service

Great White Throne--->For the LOST<---JUDGED GUILTY and CAST

I suggest you open your eyes and actually trust JESUS.....your false religion is leading you down a path that ends in disaster.....! <---BASED upon the lack of understanding that is apparent to most by the drivel and non-biblical things you post!
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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CAN YOU PROVIDE SCRIPTURES THAT SAYS JESUS WAS “CURSED" ASIDE FROM PAUL’S? I DON’T MEAN THAT HE HIMSELF CALLED JESUS “CURSED" BUT ONLY THOSE WHO TEACH A GOSPEL OF ANOTHER KIND WHICH IS NO GOSPEL AT ALL.

Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW.(rom 3:19). IT WAS CREATED BY GOD FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF.

1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that LAW IS MADE NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and LIARS and perjurers—and for whatever else is CONTRARY TO THE SOUND DOCTRINE that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

OUR LORD DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF UNDER THE LAW WHEN HE SAID;

John 15:25 But this is to fulfill what is written in THEIR Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH".

1 Corinthians 15:55-57 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

“BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US" MEANS “ BY DYING FOR US" SINCE THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH”, AND THE GOSPEL CLEARLY SAYS THAT CHRIST DIED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS(JUSTIFICATION).

NOWHERE IN THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST TELLS US THAT “HE WAS CURSED” FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND THAT WORD IS GOD.(john 1:1-3 & 14) GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY, THE ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD, THE CREATOR, LAW GIVER AND THE JUDGE(james 4:12) AND NO ONE CAN JUDGE OR CURSE HIM OR CALL HIM “CURSED".

Galatians 3:10,13 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who DOES NOT CONTINUE TO DO everything written in the Book of the Law.”

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”



1 Corinthians 2:10-16 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

PAUL CLEARLY DESCRIBED WHO ARE THOSE HE CONSIDERED “CURSED”;

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

UNDERSTANDING THE ABOVE VERSE WILL BRING US TO THE CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF THE FF: VERSE;

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT THE LORD JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND ACCORDING TO JOHN “THE WORD IS GOD". (john 1:1-3 & 14)

GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY WHO CREATED THE LAW FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF SO WHAT IS MAN TO CALL HIM “CURSED"?

WHO AMONG BELIEVERS WOULD QUESTION GOD’S VULNERABILITY TO CURSES OR WHATEVER EVIL ACTS AGAINST HIM? ...PETER EXPLAINS IT BETTER;

2 Peter 3:14-18 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which IGNORANT and UNSTABLE people DISTORT, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the ERROR of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.

Hebrews 10:26-29 If we DELIBERATELY keep on sinning after we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD under foot, who has TREATED AS AN UNHOLY THING the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

.. GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED…

...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR…

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and THE TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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New International Version 1984 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Its intriguing to me that you quote Scriptures that teach us to live by the Law of faith in order to prove your point that we need more than faith.
Everyone has faith in something Cee.

Faith in the Pope will not save you. Faith in Muhammad won't save you. Faith in the long haired men's hair shampoo model Christianity created and place the name of Jesus on won't save you. Faith in your own thoughts will not save you. Faith that is dead will not save you.

Therefore "Faith" alone is not sufficient for Salvation.

Do you deny these truths?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Excellent...:) Thank you for asking.....when I read the whole book of James then I saw the big picture

James is writing to the Jews, (some wealthy not taking care of others) who are learning how to come out from under the Law and what role works have to play in their final judgment.

The question of faith has already been settled, we are saved by faith, James knew this he was a born again believer.

James is teaching on the profitable life of the Christian and being judged by the law of liberty when we stand before God

[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
James 2:12

Those under the law of liberty are already justified by faith in Christ.

Faith alone does not profit because we are already justified by faith, for the believer’s judgement before God it is works that will be Rewarded, that is why he is stressing works


As well, he plainly states that dead faith, is faith that is alone….works are not to save but to bear witness of who we are in Christ and for eternal rewards.

Dead here means ineffective to show who were are in Christ ....NOT for salvation








You explain these verses from James to me.

James 2 AMPC

14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Everyone has faith in something Cee.

Faith in the Pope will not save you. Faith in Muhammad won't save you. Faith in the long haired men's hair shampoo model Christianity created and place the name of Jesus on won't save you. Faith in your own thoughts will not save you. Faith that is dead will not save you.

Therefore "Faith" alone is not sufficient for Salvation.

Do you deny these truths?
The bolded is false, Satanic and not of GOD.

It pleased God
by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

You sir, are a false teacher and you are pushing heresy!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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So what...does not mean they worshiped the devil...Jesus called Peter Satan.....did that make PETER SATAN....you can forget it....I see right through the drivel you post....and your working for, law keeping false gospel....and my reference was to the post about you saying they worshiped SATAN...so....twist and embellish all you like...we all see through you and your lemon twist gospel.
Thank you for another spirit filled reply Decon. I can always count on you and G9 for these ingenious spiritual religious holy insights.

If you want to say the Pharisees who murdered the Prophets and Jesus and Stephen because they were worshipping and serving the Holy one of Israel, and not the Devil as Jesus clearly pointed out, you are free to do so. No sense in listening to Jesus now.

I'm not sure the rebuke Jesus gave Peter is the same as Jesus Word's regarding the Pharisees. But if you want to preach they were the same go for it, it lines up with the rest of your religious doctrines nicely.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I love this part,:D

if you work for God's free gift, "our eternal salvation", then it is no longer a gift and you have fallen from grace.
Paul tells us the if we work for salvation we put God in our debt, like a worker who earns wages and this is not a gift then and is not grace

Its like telling God He owes us because we have worked for it, how sad to think this way in light of the cross.

4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Romans 4:4




No we do not, and why, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." but you already new this I bet. People who want to add or mix God's Grace with works cannot for some reason separate the "free gift of God, which is their eternal salvation, and our on going service, worship and pursuit of holy living. They are two separate events that take place in the life of a born again Christian.

One event is our "position in Christ" and the other is our "life long practice" if you work for God's free gift, "our eternal salvation", then it is no longer a gift and you have fallen from grace. But for some reason I think you already understand this very basic theology. Eternal Salvation is a free gift from God, you cannot add works or it is no longer free, logical right?

I am righting this hoping that someone may benefit from understanding "By Grace Alone".....:)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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The bolded is false, Satanic and not of GOD.

It pleased God
by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

You sir, are a false teacher and you are pushing heresy!
Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Same ole story, just different century.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Nothing can be dead that was not once alive.

Having said that "dead" in James is best understood as inoperative, inactive.

To say faith alone cannot save it completely contradictory to the Gospel and the shed blood of Jesus, you do know this?:confused:

Perhaps you were typing too fast...can we give you the benefit of the doubt here...I hope so.

It is the object of our faith "Jesus" that saves so in a sense you are right misplaced faith does not save.

If you are saying nominal Christians ( in name only) then I yes there is some truth to that too....salvation in an internal work so taking on a label is not salvation.


Everyone has faith in something Cee.

Faith in the Pope will not save you. Faith in Muhammad won't save you. Faith in the long haired men's hair shampoo model Christianity created and place the name of Jesus on won't save you. Faith in your own thoughts will not save you. Faith that is dead will not save you.

Therefore "Faith" alone is not sufficient for Salvation.

Do you deny these truths?