Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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So I will take that as a you do not think much of it. What exactly do you mean by growth? Growth in what? And maturity.
maturing in what way? Not trying to start a fight. Just trying to understand.
K cool...

Salvation places one into the vine

A vine takes growth and maturity before it produces fruit or works...

Sanctification is used in a dual sense in the bible....

a. Sanctified in Christ positionally and eternally by faith <--born of the spirit, of incorruptable seed, saved, justified and sealed
b. Our daily lives changed outwardly because of the growth, maturity and transformation described in Romans 12

AS our daily lives are transformed and sanctified we begin to bear the results....fruit or works of righteousness

HENCE.....the works or fruit are the DIRECT RESULT OF of the transformation and daily sanctification that takes place in a believer through SPIRITUAL GROWTH and MATURITY.....

That is the point bro.....SORRY...I just fire from the hip sometimes....I should be more tactful....
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,886
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Faith comes as a free gift of grace. No work of ours can merit it. But after Faith works become very important for our sanctification and those works are done with the help of God's grace also. If we resist that grace we may end up like the servant below.
24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents.
Can I just ask you and others here.

What is a talent, the talent Jesus is taking about?

It seems to be money.

If it wasn't money would Jesus not have used works?

If it is money why is Jesus saying to invest to earn interest on it?
Is it not lending it to earn interest?

If so who is it being lent to?

What about

Deuteronomy 23:19-20


19 “You shall not charge interest to your brother—interest on money or food or anything that is lent out at interest. 20 To a foreigner you may charge interest, but to your brother you shall not charge interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all to which you set your hand in the land which you are entering to possess.

Just asking you and others
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
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Can I just ask you and others here.

What is a talent, the talent Jesus is taking about?

It seems to be money.

If it wasn't money would Jesus not have used works?

If it is money why is Jesus saying to invest to earn interest on it?
Is it not lending it to earn interest?

If so who is it being lent to?

What about

Deuteronomy 23:19-20


19 “You shall not charge interest to your brother—interest on money or food or anything that is lent out at interest. 20 To a foreigner you may charge interest, but to your brother you shall not charge interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all to which you set your hand in the land which you are entering to possess.

Just asking you and others

I think a talent is a measure of gold. As for usury I do not know.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Originally Posted by Metternich

Faith comes as a free gift of grace. No work of ours can merit it. But after Faith works become very important for our sanctification and those works are done with the help of God's grace also. If we resist that grace we may end up like the servant below.
24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents.

dcontroversial says:

The bolded is false.........works do not sanctify.....sanctification in our daily life is the direct result of growth and maturity.....said growth and maturity results in sanctification WHICH in turn will bear fruitful works for the Lord.....

BillG likes this.

Originally Posted by Nehemiah6

So good works are a part of sanctification.

I think there is no discrepancy in what was said here: But after Faith works become very important for our sanctification and those works are done with the help of God's grace also" and what you have stated.

dcon says:

Sure there is....semantics means everything and one word changes context and truth....

Good works are a part of

Good works are a result of

The two above say entirely different things...........and the bible teaches the latter not the former!

eternally-gratefull likes this.


originally posted by NNM

sanctification comes from Jesus

" wherefore Jesus also that He might sanctify the people with His own blood"

this isnt physical.....

“But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH:”


this is for ALL of His children

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified"



works are a product of sanctification

not a requirement for.....


37. hagiazó ►
Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Short Definition: I make holy, sanctify
Definition: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

what He has done to us spiritually through His blood

38. hagiasmos ►
Strong's Concordance
hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Short Definition: sanctification, holiness
Definition: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.


(this comes by grace through faith...... we dont "become holy" from works....)

eternally-gratefull and dcontroversal like this.



Seohce

John 17:17-19 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

JESUS IS THE WORD THAT BECAME FLESH(john 1:1-3 & 14)

THE WORD IS TRUTH (john 14:6 15:26, 16:13 & 6:33)


Q: HOW DID JESUS SANCTIFY HIMSELF THAT WE MAY BE TRULY SANCTIFIED?

A: JESUS WAS SENT BY GOD THE FATHER AND SET HIM APART TO DO HIS WILL. HE SANCTIFIES HIMSELF BY DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE FATHER HAS COMMANDED HIM TO DO. AND WE ARE THEREFORE TRULY SANCTIFIED IF WE DO WHAT WE ARE TOLD TO DO AFTER BEING SENT INTO THE WORLD.

THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT AND ARE HIS FELLOW WORKERS.(1 cor 3:9 & 6:17)

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by SENDING HIS OWN SON in the likeness of sinful man TO BE A SIN OFFERING. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his REVERENT SUBMISSION. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, ONCE MADE PERFECT, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.



John 10:34-38 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN— what about the one whom the Father SET APART as his very own and SENT INTO THE WORLD? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I AM GOD’S SON? Do not believe me unless I DO WHAT MY FATHER DOES. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

John 14:23-24 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; THEY BELONG TO THE FATHER WHO SENT ME

.John 14:31 . but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

1 Peter 1:13-16 Be Holy Therefore, PREPARE YOUR MINDS FOR ACTION; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
Originally Posted by Metternich

Faith comes as a free gift of grace. No work of ours can merit it. But after Faith works become very important for our sanctification and those works are done with the help of God's grace also. If we resist that grace we may end up like the servant below.
24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents.

dcontroversial says:

The bolded is false.........works do not sanctify.....sanctification in our daily life is the direct result of growth and maturity.....said growth and maturity results in sanctification WHICH in turn will bear fruitful works for the Lord.....

BillG likes this.

Originally Posted by Nehemiah6

So good works are a part of sanctification.

I think there is no discrepancy in what was said here: But after Faith works become very important for our sanctification and those works are done with the help of God's grace also" and what you have stated.

dcon says:

Sure there is....semantics means everything and one word changes context and truth....

Good works are a part of

Good works are a result of

The two above say entirely different things...........and the bible teaches the latter not the former!

eternally-gratefull likes this.


originally posted by NNM

sanctification comes from Jesus

" wherefore Jesus also that He might sanctify the people with His own blood"

this isnt physical.....

“But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH:”


this is for ALL of His children

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified"



works are a product of sanctification

not a requirement for.....


37. hagiazó ►
Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Short Definition: I make holy, sanctify
Definition: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

what He has done to us spiritually through His blood

38. hagiasmos ►
Strong's Concordance
hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Short Definition: sanctification, holiness
Definition: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.


(this comes by grace through faith...... we dont "become holy" from works....)

eternally-gratefull and dcontroversal like this.



Seohce

John 17:17-19 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

JESUS IS THE WORD THAT BECAME FLESH(john 1:1-3 & 14)

THE WORD IS TRUTH (john 14:6 15:26, 16:13 & 6:33)


Q: HOW DID JESUS SANCTIFY HIMSELF THAT WE MAY BE TRULY SANCTIFIED?

A: JESUS WAS SENT BY GOD THE FATHER AND SET HIM APART TO DO HIS WILL. HE SANCTIFIES HIMSELF BY DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE FATHER HAS COMMANDED HIM TO DO. AND WE ARE THEREFORE TRULY SANCTIFIED IF WE DO WHAT WE ARE TOLD TO DO AFTER BEING SENT INTO THE WORLD.

THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT AND ARE HIS FELLOW WORKERS.(1 cor 3:9 & 6:17)

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by SENDING HIS OWN SON in the likeness of sinful man TO BE A SIN OFFERING. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his REVERENT SUBMISSION. Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, ONCE MADE PERFECT, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.



John 10:34-38 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN— what about the one whom the Father SET APART as his very own and SENT INTO THE WORLD? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I AM GOD’S SON? Do not believe me unless I DO WHAT MY FATHER DOES. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

John 14:23-24 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; THEY BELONG TO THE FATHER WHO SENT ME

.John 14:31 . but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

1 Peter 1:13-16 Be Holy Therefore, PREPARE YOUR MINDS FOR ACTION; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Huh? What did you write and what did you copy from others?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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originally posted by Seohce


WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..

WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???

John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God,
for God gives the Spirit without limit.



This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).

SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)

IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.

John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?

DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?
THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).

DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:

Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?

Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does that mean that Christ PROMOTES SIN? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

Romans 6:15 What then? SHALL WE SIN because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

John 16:13 But when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

THEREFORE:

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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Huh? What did you write and what did you copy from others?
He constantly twists what I say, lies about what is said, embellishes what is said and totally rejects the Galatian account of Jesus becoming a curse for us....most have him on ignore because he incessantly posts long walls of scripture out of context to support his working for, law keeping dogma for salvation......ask anyone......note the post above this one....more of his deceit....
 
Last edited:

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
originally posted by Seohce

DID JESUS STOP WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISH HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)



John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”



IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?
WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1 corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?

WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.

GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.
WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.

Philippians 2:21 For everyone looks out for HIS OWN INTERESTS, not those of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Matthew 16:24-28 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, HE MUST DENY HIMSELFand take up his cross and follow me. For WHOEVER WANTS TO SAVE HIS LIFE WILL LOSE IT, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”
 

DanMe

Junior Member
Mar 20, 2018
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N.T. Wright has a very interesting point of view on this matter. I recommend checking it out. I'm not sure how much I agree or disagree with his conclusions, but it's very interesting reading.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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[video=youtube;msWsC0srUas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWsC0srUas[/video]
So now the Armenians and the Calvinist want to DISTORT the term that I have come to LOVE. They MEAN WAY MORE by Lordship Salvation, than good teachers like Dr. John MacArthur meant it to be.

Here is my understanding what REAL Lordship Salvation was meant to be:

When you are SAVED for REAL, you will be remorseful for your sins, and you willingly surrender to HIM out of LOVE for HIM because JESUS PAID FOR ALL OF OUR SINS. That Loving Surrender is an ACT OF LOVE for Him because HE Paid the Price. How is that Possible? Because the HOLY SPIRIT, the Moment HE truly came in to your heart, HE POURED GOD's LOVE into our hearts.


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


He also in that moment of genuine FAITH, birthed our once dead human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE. That New Life in us, always wants to do what pleases the LORD, so it WANTS TO submit to Him out of LOVE as LORD, meaning MASTER, aided by GOD's LOVE that HE put into us. THAT IS ALL IT MEANS, and I object to those who want to add LEGALISM to the TERM of LORDSHIP SALVATION, DISTORTING IT'S ORIGINAL MEANING.


It reminds me of all the psuedo Christian false prophets that TOOK THE TERM of RAPTURE, and DISTORTED IT, to the Point that I abandoned the use of that TERM personally. Now I just call it what it actually is: [h=2]THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb[/h]
That is the name of one of my threads, and if you are interested here is the Link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/95283-calling-out-bride-go-wedding-lamb.html
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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He also in that moment of genuine FAITH, birthed our once dead human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE. That New Life in us, always wants to do what pleases the LORD, so it WANTS TO submit to Him out of LOVE as LORD, meaning MASTER, aided by GOD's LOVE that HE put into us.
No offense, but we still have the old sinful nature. See Romans 7:25. Therefore Lordship Salvation is missing the point. Why should we make Jesus Lord? He already IS Lord.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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He constantly twists what I say, lies about what is said, embellishes what is said and totally rejects the Galatian account of Jesus becoming a curse for us....most have him on ignore because he incessantly posts long walls of scripture out of context to support his working for, law keeping dogma for salvation......ask anyone......note the post above this one....more of his deceit....


originally posted by ElAmor

dcon says:


….ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally…..

ElAmor

What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?

If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?

dcon’s reply;

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor

If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.

It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )

Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

….-JESUS HIMSELF TAUGHT THAT WE SHOULD OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

….Does the true Gospel teaches disobedience? NO!!!

The True Gospel teaches LOVE and OBEDIENCE and not DISOBEDIENCE.

So whoever is teaching that OBEDIENCE to the commandments cannot be added to FAITH for salvation is rejecting God’s and Jesus’ commands to walk in obedience to His commands and it is clear in the bible who they truly are. (2 john 1:1-11)

Romans 5:19 For just as through the DISOBEDIENCE of the one man the many were made SINNERS, so also through the OBEDIENCE of the one man the many will be made RIGHTEOUS.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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He constantly twists what I say, lies about what is said, embellishes what is said and totally rejects the Galatian account of Jesus becoming a curse for us....most have him on ignore because he incessantly posts long walls of scripture out of context to support his working for, law keeping dogma for salvation......ask anyone......note the post above this one....more of his deceit....
CAN YOU PROVIDE SCRIPTURES THAT SAYS JESUS WAS “CURSED" ASIDE FROM PAUL’S? I DON’T MEAN THAT HE HIMSELF CALLED JESUS “CURSED" BUT ONLY THOSE WHO TEACH A GOSPEL OF ANOTHER KIND WHICH IS NO GOSPEL AT ALL.

Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW.(rom 3:19). IT WAS CREATED BY GOD FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF.

1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that LAW IS MADE NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and LIARS and perjurers—and for whatever else is CONTRARY TO THE SOUND DOCTRINE that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

OUR LORD DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF UNDER THE LAW WHEN HE SAID;

John 15:25 But this is to fulfill what is written in THEIR Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH".

1 Corinthians 15:55-57 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

“BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US" MEANS “ BY DYING FOR US" SINCE THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH”, AND THE GOSPEL CLEARLY SAYS THAT CHRIST DIED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS(JUSTIFICATION).

NOWHERE IN THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST TELLS US THAT “HE WAS CURSED” FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND THAT WORD IS GOD.(john 1:1-3 & 14) GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY, THE ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD, THE CREATOR, LAW GIVER AND THE JUDGE(james 4:12) AND NO ONE CAN JUDGE OR CURSE HIM OR CALL HIM “CURSED".

Galatians 3:10,13 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who DOES NOT CONTINUE TO DO everything written in the Book of the Law.”

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”



1 Corinthians 2:10-16 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

PAUL CLEARLY DESCRIBED WHO ARE THOSE HE CONSIDERED “CURSED”;

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

UNDERSTANDING THE ABOVE VERSE WILL BRING US TO THE CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF THE FF: VERSE;

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT THE LORD JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND ACCORDING TO JOHN “THE WORD IS GOD". (john 1:1-3 & 14)

GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY WHO CREATED THE LAW FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF SO WHAT IS MAN TO CALL HIM “CURSED"?

WHO AMONG BELIEVERS WOULD QUESTION GOD’S VULNERABILITY TO CURSES OR WHATEVER EVIL ACTS AGAINST HIM? ...PETER EXPLAINS IT BETTER;

2 Peter 3:14-18 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which IGNORANT and UNSTABLE people DISTORT, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the ERROR of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.

Hebrews 10:26-29 If we DELIBERATELY keep on sinning after we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD under foot, who has TREATED AS AN UNHOLY THING the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

.. GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED…

...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR…

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and THE TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Huh? What did you write and what did you copy from others?
Save yourself a headache and follow our example by putting him on ignore. He doesn't actually address anything we say, and simply posts the same reams of drivel repeatedly.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speak to one another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."[/FONT]
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Save yourself a headache and follow our example by putting him on ignore. He doesn't actually address anything we say, and simply posts the same reams of drivel repeatedly.
Amen brother..........still accusing me and trying to discredit me......all can see his drivel for what it is....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The lawyer is still peddling the law.......

The law deems guilt....no one keeps it...all are law breakers...we have been justified by faith without the deeds of the LAW...

Faith is what saves and justifies before God...not attempting to keep that which cannot be kept.....!!
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Here's what repentance is according to the Greek:

[FONT=&quot]3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards").[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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No offense, but we still have the old sinful nature. See Romans 7:25. Therefore Lordship Salvation is missing the point. Why should we make Jesus Lord? He already IS Lord.
WRONG, the original meaning of LORDSHIP SALVATION, is NOT SINLESSNESS. As Dr. John MacArthur has put it many times from the pulpit, "A Christian is not SINLESS, but as his or her spirit matures by feeding on the Word, they will SIN less, and less, and less."

Like I said, I heard the Term way back in the very early 80's, and I am glad you pointed out that the Armenians, who ADDED the WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS to the Term LORDSHIP SALVATION, and the Calvinists that added DO NOTHING to it, are WRONG. THEY DISTORTED IT TO THE POINT OF PERVERSION.

That Term was used by Dr. MacArthur in the early 80's, possibly in the 70's to; to mean NOTHING MORE than a true Christian will be remorseful over their sin, and out of LOVE FOR JESUS CHRIST, will willingly surrender out to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER. And as a result, our New born again human Spirit will WANT to confess each new SIN they discover in their lives, and ALL OF THAT IS ONLY POSSIBLE, because GOD'S LOVE was poured into our HEARTS, Rom. 5:5. That ONGOING CONFESS {Greek Perfect present tense implies it is ongoing} in 1 John 1:9, it becomes a continuous LIFESTYLE, of our new nature, of our born again human spirit.

The reason I know so much about Dr. John MacArthur's teaching is, God put it on my heart to tape record 5 nights a week his Sermons for years, from mid-1978 through the Late 80's. I did not know it, but God was preparing me to become a Volunteer Chaplain in the toughest super-max Prison in the California Department of Corrections. I re-listened to every one of those tapes 3 additional times. I had the kind of job back then that I could put my Walkman tape Recorder while I worked.