Not By Works

[FranC]

The sin nature term is a man-made one. It is not a biblical term. Unfortunately it came about from the NIV which translated the Greek word "sarx" which is flesh - they changed it to say "sinful nature" because of their religious church taught beliefs. They have since fixed this error in their subsequent newer translations.

As I have said - the flesh is here with us but it is NOT our identity. The flesh is NOT us. The only "nature" talked about in the New Covenant is us having the divine nature of God that Peter talks about.

The old man which was our sinful nature has been crucified on the cross with Christ - it has died. There is still the power of sin in our members Paul says in Romans 7:17-23 and there is still the flesh which is our ways of thinking and doing things to find life which is in our brains/minds - how we live on this earth outside of God's life. This is one of the reasons why we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Here is a short 6 minute video that talks about "the flesh".


[video=youtube;wYQxHB-U6NU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYQxHB-U6NU[/video]

Here is a 4 minute one that talks about "Who is the real me?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4sS6QmQ-Ps

Grace ----

You call it flesh.
I call it sin nature because it refers to the sin nature --- our nature.
Your speaker calls it: The Policy of the Former Administrtion!!

Even he admitted that flesh could be two different concepts:
Flesh --- the actual body of flesh and bones
Flesh --- That part of us that "causes things to happen". This is the sin nature to me.

Whatever you want to call a rose, it's still a rose.
So, if I know what you mean, I don't really care what you call it. I'll understand you better now.

I have an acquaintence who believes that we still have a FLESH, but our SIN NATURE has been demolished.

So, as you could see, we each understand ourselves in a different way.
But, in the end, it's all the same stuff.

Our sin nature is the opposite of our God nature.
We still have it, we still have The Flesh. But it's put under submission, so that, yes, we will Always sin till Death.
Some churches teach that
The body is amoral
The soul is amoral
The spirit is moral

They teach that the body and soul and not perfectable, but the spirit IS perfectable precisely because God looks at the heart.
So in our heart WE WILL to have perfect affection(love) and perfect motives (non-sinning). Our WILL cannot Always have dominance due to our flesh, or sin nature.

Want some more expressions?:

inbred sin
indwelling sin
enmity against God
moral corruption
carnality
the old man
the sin principle
the law of sin
the bent toward sin
the carnal mind
double-mindedness
sinful propensity
fallen nature

and many more (from Dynamics of Discipling , Arts Publications)

I think Language is a problem sometimes and we shouldn't get hung up on words.

 

[PeterJens]

Did the covenants fail?

The covenant was a demonstration of God about His nature compared to ours.
Some succeeded to find God but they were very few.

The covenant with Israel was a national covenant, but even when faced with God
right in front of them, they still preferred in general idolatry and sexual debauchery.

The final stage was the demonstration of Gods heart, Jesus which is the final revelation
of who God is. Nothing deeper or more profound can be given.

And as cc demonstrates, even here this is difficult for our hearts to grasp and to walk in.
If Jesus talks to your heart and helps unlock the door, the word of faith gives strength to
face the inner problem. But for some this seems too difficult a step to take.

 

[FranC]

Did the covenants fail?

The covenant was a demonstration of God about His nature compared to ours.
Some succeeded to find God but they were very few.

The covenant with Israel was a national covenant, but even when faced with God
right in front of them, they still preferred in general idolatry and sexual debauchery.

The final stage was the demonstration of Gods heart, Jesus which is the final revelation
of who God is. Nothing deeper or more profound can be given.

And as cc demonstrates, even here this is difficult for our hearts to grasp and to walk in.
If Jesus talks to your heart and helps unlock the door, the word of faith gives strength to
face the inner problem. But for some this seems too difficult a step to take.

PJ

What do you say is the inner problem?

 

[FranC]

There is a flaw in the duality model of life.
Anything that is an issue or difficult is not longer you, but the evil other, the body.

This is very appealing, but there is no way we can divide ourselves in such a fashion.
We are living beings, mamals with a real physical biological presence with systems
relating to our humanity, fear, joy, love, hunger, anger, desire, sadness, pain.
We are conscious and know we are looking out through our eyes. We have control
over what we emphasis but not the whole system.

Jesus comes with a total solution, not a partial defeated, compromised answer, as
He is the creator. It is sowing to the Spirit, walking in Jesus and love, obedience
to His commands, exercising faith. Now if this is the gospel, anything else that
compromises it is not.

So one disfunctional way of living is denial of emotions and repression. It shows itself
in people who never display one particular aspect of life, yet it is present. The effect
of doing this is people become hyper sensitive to that emotion, and when triggered explodes
out of control. They feel it is a beast waiting to break out, when in reality it is just a feeling
but repressed and ignored so grows bigger only to be heard. A dualist view of spiritual life
appeals to people like this because they disown their own feelings, but are taken over by
them at intervals.

One sign you do this, is when levels of the emotion rise disproportionately to the stimulus,
and go on when they should just fade away. Often the quietest people are raging inside
but never let it out. This is not how God wants us to live, or be victims of.

It is also why many dare not go near their hearts because they think these emotions will
overwhelm them, when actually like a wave they will come, and then go. Emotions are like
pointers to what is going on inside, which need to be listened to and taken into account,
and then balanced with all the other issues of life. As Jesus said

Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Matt 6:33-34

Deal with what is before you. Tomorrow is another day.

This is interesting.
I go to a class every month. A teaching is that an emotion is not a sin, but what you do with it CAN be sin.
It's normal for me to get mad if I find out I was overcharged at a store...
It's how I handle this that makes us different from the rest of the world.

Is this what you're saying?

Are you saying that some persons are sooooo sensitive to sin and see it so much, that they cannot even confront it?
And so wish to say that it doesn't exist?

Please explain better.

You don't sound like someone who believes in sinless perfection, even though I've heard some here say this.

 

[PeterJens]

PJ
What do you say is the inner problem?

For most it is facing their heart and admitting what they are really like.
It is easy to look at everything in life as merely incoming information that
just needs the appropriate response.

This in effect says, as long as you give me what you want me to say I will
say it, but what I really am is hidden from both myself and everyone else.

It is possible to go through the whole of life like this, and never be honest about
what is happening inside. A key indication of someone caught like this is being
scared of expressing their emotions, or looking into their responses to others,
rather than just telling themselves how they must respond.

I think of this as the mask verses the heart. The heart is ones true self,
the mask is how it comes across.

 

[FranC]

Hi Fran,

Yes, Thanks for bringing this up.

The Edenic covenant was conditional and caused mankind to fall. And thus require the need to be saved.

The mosaic covenant was given, and again man failed, and did what it was supposed to do, Cause them to seek a savior.

he redemptive symbol of Passover is that sign, While it could be said they had to slaughter the animal and spread the blood. Christ offered himself as the sacrifice, and the HS spreads the blood.

what was required was faith. In Egypt, One had to trust that God would send that angel of death, And that God would spare them if they spread the blood.

They also had to trust that after the first born of the Egyptians was killed, they would not retaliate and kill all Israel. In other words, It was more than just mere mental agreement,

Likewise, We have to trust God will send sinners to hell, And that God did sacrifice Christ for our sins, so his blood can be applied to our door posts. And that God will protect us if the world retaliates because it hates God.

ie, More than just mental agreement (james 2) for even demons believe...

Hi EG

Two things:


1. Do you believe God PURPOSEFULLY gave us conditions He knew we could not keep so as to cause us to REQUIRE a Savior??
It sounds like this is what you're saying.

Instead of... God made humans and wanted to, even though He knew we would fail. He, through His grace, gave us the way out ---Jesus.


2. in the above statement (highlighted by me) you say:

We have to trust God will send sinners to hell

Is this a mis-speak?
We are all sinners. (we are not all going to be away from God)
You must mean that God sends non-believers to be where He is not (hell).

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace ----

You call it flesh.
I call it sin nature because it refers to the sin nature --- our nature.
Your speaker calls it: The Policy of the Former Administrtion!!

Even he admitted that flesh could be two different concepts:
Flesh --- the actual body of flesh and bones
Flesh --- That part of us that "causes things to happen". This is the sin nature to me.

Whatever you want to call a rose, it's still a rose.
So, if I know what you mean, I don't really care what you call it. I'll understand you better now.

I have an acquaintence who believes that we still have a FLESH, but our SIN NATURE has been demolished.

So, as you could see, we each understand ourselves in a different way.
But, in the end, it's all the same stuff.

Our sin nature is the opposite of our God nature.
We still have it, we still have The Flesh. But it's put under submission, so that, yes, we will Always sin till Death.
Some churches teach that
The body is amoral
The soul is amoral
The spirit is moral

They teach that the body and soul and not perfectable, but the spirit IS perfectable precisely because God looks at the heart.
So in our heart WE WILL to have perfect affection(love) and perfect motives (non-sinning). Our WILL cannot Always have dominance due to our flesh, or sin nature.

Want some more expressions?:

inbred sin
indwelling sin
enmity against God
moral corruption
carnality
the old man
the sin principle
the law of sin
the bent toward sin
the carnal mind
double-mindedness
sinful propensity
fallen nature

and many more (from Dynamics of Discipling , Arts Publications)

I think Language is a problem sometimes and we shouldn't get hung up on words.

The whole thrust and point of the discussion is that "it is not our identity". We do NOT have 2 natures. We are not schizophrenic spiritually. The flesh is NOT the real us.

We can call the flesh a bad mother-in-law if we want...lol

The actual scriptures only use the Greek word for "nature" concerning our divine nature that is in us because of the new creation in Christ. Check it out for yourself.

Personally I think we should use sound words like Paul says when we speak because then people have a solid base to understand from. That's the whole basis of having language to begin with - to convey concepts in a consistent manner in which the understanding of the meaning of words is fundamental.

 

[Grace777x70]

The whole thrust and point of the discussion is that "it is not our identity". We do NOT have 2 natures. We are not schizophrenic spiritually. The flesh is NOT the real us.

We can call the flesh a bad mother-in-law if we want...lol

The actual scriptures only use the Greek word for "nature" concerning our divine nature that is in us because of the new creation in Christ. Check it out for yourself.

Personally I think we should use sound words like Paul says when we speak because then people have a solid base to understand from. That's the whole basis of having language to begin with - to convey concepts in a consistent manner in which the understanding of the meaning of words is fundamental.

Opps....I forget this part.

The truth is that the old man who was in Adam which was our sinful nature is dead - died on the cross with Christ. Rom. 6:6 ; Gal. 2:20, Col. 3:3

We have a new nature in Christ now and that is our true identity.

 

[PeterJens]

We are born with a body, mind and spirit.
Body covers the physical side of our existance
Mind covers our analytical skills to solve problems and deal with issues
Spirit covers our emotions or reactions to life, our direction, the true identity
that makes us who we are.

You cannot separate any of these three parts and still have the individual.
Our hearts are often used to describe the core of who we are.

What the Lord brings to us is a model of how to live and love and the Holy Spirit
to help us achieve it. There is a mystery of the new creation, the starting again
what this actually means, and how it works. Paul alludes to us this is a choice
of putting on the new man and putting to death the old, or sowing to the Spirit
and not sowing to the passions of this world.

The apostles also mention the cleansing of the conscience and spirit by the blood.
This purifies the soul.

 

[Seohce]

I think you're the one misunderstanding Ariel82.
This is a discussion thread, we discuss things here, therefore, share our opinions, thoughts, interpretations and truths.

Using scripture is all well and good.
The scriptures are perfect and holy that's why if you indeed want to participate in this thread it would be better not just to post scriptures but also why you posted them.

Here's an example. I'll give you a scripture which I think supports my thought.

"Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified."

I know the context here is speaking in tongues but I pray you see my point.
No one gets edified if no one understands what you are saying.

I can post scriptures too. As I'm sure everyone else here can.
And we can post scriptures back and forth.
But would we understand each other?

By posting scriptures back and forth without some form of clue as to what it is meant would we be able to really discuss anything?

No disrespect, but if you're just gonna post scriptures, then the only thing you're adding is space in this thread.
I have a bible on my desk, bible in my phone, and another bible website open on my browser and by the grace of God I know how to use them.

You can agree with me on this or not or even leave me a scripture or two if you like, but this is all just my opinion.
Don't take it personally.

God bless and peace to you.

I really don't want to argue with anyone else but i just get so confused why a lot in here who claim that faith ALONE saves don't seem to put their faith in the WORD OF TRUTH, the GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION, but would prefer to exalt themselves instead of God. Thanks for your concern bro and God bless.

 

[FranC]

Amen,

We have proof of this in the bible.

David committed murder and adultery, And Jesus will sit on his throne.

Yet we have many who would be considered morally upright by our standards, Who will never see heaven because they have not been redeemed by the blood.

That is why it is dangerous to poke at certain sins and say these people can,t be saved, or boast in our righteousness, and say I have not murdered or been addicted to porn, or whatever..

NO ONE is morally upright.
God is too pure for us to meet His standards.
Only through Jesus can we be saved because God sees His Son an not us.

There is non righteous, no not one.
Righteousness is imputed to us, we are not righteous of our own doing.

 

[FranC]

For most it is facing their heart and admitting what they are really like.
It is easy to look at everything in life as merely incoming information that
just needs the appropriate response.

This in effect says, as long as you give me what you want me to say I will
say it, but what I really am is hidden from both myself and everyone else.

It is possible to go through the whole of life like this, and never be honest about
what is happening inside. A key indication of someone caught like this is being
scared of expressing their emotions, or looking into their responses to others,
rather than just telling themselves how they must respond.

I think of this as the mask verses the heart. The heart is ones true self,
the mask is how it comes across.

The mask vs. the heart. OK. But we can't fool God, and it's God that we are here to serve.

I'm protestant but live somewhere with all Catholics. (I grew up Catholic). I have friends that just want to be told what to do:
Go to Church, go to confession, say your prayers, be nice...

This is all well and good, but are they changed on the inside? No. They still struggle with their faith, there is no joy, and there's no power of the Holy Spirit.

Man is a dark creature. It is difficult for some toface this. If you face it, and accept it, THEN you are REALLY depending on the Lord!

Some want to believe they are a new man, have a new nature, and however one wants to word it...
The reality is that our heart has changed, we wish to do good and to be nice ---

But God is so perfect, how could we ever match that?
The closer you get to God...
The more you feel like a sinner.

I say I have to continue in my salvation and continue in my sanctification and am told that this is pride
...by persons who feel that only their faith will save them to the end.

What is more prideful??

 

[FranC]

The whole thrust and point of the discussion is that "it is not our identity". We do NOT have 2 natures. We are not schizophrenic spiritually. The flesh is NOT the real us.

We can call the flesh a bad mother-in-law if we want...lol

The actual scriptures only use the Greek word for "nature" concerning our divine nature that is in us because of the new creation in Christ. Check it out for yourself.

Personally I think we should use sound words like Paul says when we speak because then people have a solid base to understand from. That's the whole basis of having language to begin with - to convey concepts in a consistent manner in which the understanding of the meaning of words is fundamental.

I agree that it's our new identity.
I agree that we cannot have two natures.

But did you understand about the moral and amoral parts of us as human beings?

We are a new creation IN CHRIST.
We ourselves are still sinful.

This reminds me of that question: Are we sinners?

Tricky question.

Of course we're sinners.
But then what does one call unsaved people? They are also sinners.

So some will say the WE ARE NOT sinners because we have a new nature.
So does this mean we don't sin...

and on and on it goes.

Our nature after being born again is not a sinful nature. IN CHRIST.
But we still sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

The body itself is not evil. It has the law of sin still in it and thank God we will get a new incorruptible body which doesn't have the law or power of sin still in it.

Romans 8:10

And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness

Romans 7 shows the two conflicts that are going on in a believer. One is not real them ( not their true nature ). The flesh even though it stems from the corrupted Adamic influence in the world is now not the real us.

When we die and go to be with the Lord - the flesh is not coming with us!...selah

The flesh and the law of sin in our body - it wages war against the real us in Christ. Romans 7:14-22

The flesh is ways to think and act that "were" the manner of living we had when we were in Adam but now are left over the old man died on the cross with Christ in our un-renewed minds. ( Eph 4:22 - in reference to your former manner of living )

Romans 7:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( the new man ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me (in my body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it ).

[SUP]18[/SUP][SUP][/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me (my body which has the flesh in it ), that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me ( in my new man ), but the doing of the good is not.

Romans 7:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP][SUP][/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( new man) do not want, I ( new man ) am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me ( the law of sin in the flesh).

[SUP]21[/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me (new man ), the one who wants to do good.

[SUP]22 [/SUP][SUP][/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man in Christ),

[SUP]23 [/SUP][SUP][/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner ofthe law of sin which is in my members.

italics = my words
Then Romans chapter 8 comes in and shows us how to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh to put to death the deeds of the body ( flesh in the body ). Rom 8:13

We are not fighting a civil war within ourselves ( the flesh and the law of sin do not belong to our new nature which in Christ. ). Jesus said " A house divided will not stand."

We do not have "2 selves" we have the true self in Christ and we still have the flesh. Even though the flesh manifests "itself" with "its" lusts through our bodies - it is not the real us in Christ.

We are still responsible for the deeds done in the body as they will affect our life here on this earth and we are to yield our members to the righteousness that is in us in Christ.

Sin is destructive and will destroy us and those around us if we don't walk by the Spirit - our true selves in Christ because Christ is joined to our spirit and His life will bear fruit on us the branches. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.

Sin is deceitful and distorts our view of our loving Father, ourselves and others.

We have such a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! Let's keep our eyes on the Lord and not the circumstances of life. Peter walking on the water is a perfect picture of the true Christian life.

 

[FranC]

Opps....I forget this part.

The truth is that the old man who was in Adam which was our sinful nature is dead - died on the cross with Christ. Rom. 6:6 ; Gal. 2:20, Col. 3:3

We have a new nature in Christ now and that is our true identity.

Grace,
Look at the word you posted up there:

OUR SINFUL NATURE. Romans 6:6 (the NASB has Body of Sin and so does my NIV, Zondervan, 2002)

So you're posting from the old NIV?

This, in any case, is a concept --- no matter how you want to call it...

Our new nature is IN CHRIST.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree that it's our new identity.
I agree that we cannot have two natures.

But did you understand about the moral and amoral parts of us as human beings?

We are a new creation IN CHRIST.
We ourselves are still sinful.

This reminds me of that question: Are we sinners?

Tricky question.

Of course we're sinners.
But then what does one call unsaved people? They are also sinners.

So some will say the WE ARE NOT sinners because we have a new nature.
So does this mean we don't sin...

and on and on it goes.

Our nature after being born again is not a sinful nature. IN CHRIST.
But we still sin.

Yes, I understood the amoral aspect of the body and soul and I agree. The body itself is not evil nor is the soul. The soul to me is just a reflector of our thoughts. If I am fearful - then the emotions will rise from that and create distress. If I have no fear - then I will reflect joy.

Sin in our flesh is kind of like getting a parasite in our foot from a cut. It enters our body but at no point is it the real us. Sin came through the blood of the father which is one of the reasons why Jesus by the Holy Spirit conceived Him in Mary's womb.

We are called saints 65 times by Paul in his epistles. I go with his terminology. We are saints that sometimes give in to sin that is in the flesh and are deceived by it. A sinner is an "identity" and it conflicts with the new creation in Christ which is our only true identity.

 

[FranC]

We are born with a body, mind and spirit.
Body covers the physical side of our existance
Mind covers our analytical skills to solve problems and deal with issues
Spirit covers our emotions or reactions to life, our direction, the true identity
that makes us who we are.

You cannot separate any of these three parts and still have the individual.
Our hearts are often used to describe the core of who we are.

What the Lord brings to us is a model of how to live and love and the Holy Spirit
to help us achieve it. There is a mystery of the new creation, the starting again
what this actually means, and how it works. Paul alludes to us this is a choice
of putting on the new man and putting to death the old, or sowing to the Spirit
and not sowing to the passions of this world.

The apostles also mention the cleansing of the conscience and spirit by the blood.
This purifies the soul.

You're explaining the trichotomy model of the human person.

An image would be nice:

We're made up of Body, Soul, Spirit.

Our spirit affects our body and our soul.
Our body and soul are amoral.
Our spirit is moral and can condition the soul.

It's this spirit in us that helps us to control the soul: Mind, Emotions, Will. That would be the New Man. The man that controls his soul with his newfound Spirit.

The Old Man tried to control his soul, but had no help from the Holy Spirit, thus it did not function well.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Opps....I forget this part.

The truth is that the old man who was in Adam which was our sinful nature is dead - died on the cross with Christ. Rom. 6:6 ; Gal. 2:20, Col. 3:3

We have a new nature in Christ now and that is our true identity.

Grace,
Look at the word you posted up there:

OUR SINFUL NATURE. Romans 6:6 (the NASB has Body of Sin and so does my NIV, Zondervan, 2002)

So you're posting from the old NIV?

This, in any case, is a concept --- no matter how you want to call it...

Our new nature is IN CHRIST.

The operative word in my post is highlighted in brown above. It is the word "was".

I posted no scriptures from the old NIV.

Yes...we "did" have a sinful nature when we were still in Adam but we don't anymore because we in Christ now have a new nature and this new nature is the real us in Christ now.

We have the flesh which has the power of sin still in it and we also have our un-renewed minds/ which is our fleshly brain which houses our thought patterns and belief systems.

This "brain" does not go to heaven when we die either. It is a member of the body.
We are still responsible with what we do in these bodies.

The new NIV fixed the translation error where they wrongfully translated "the flesh" as the sinful nature in 2002. That older translation caused more mis-understanding about the new creation and identity then any other translation error.

Unfortunately the NIV was the most used bible when it first came out after 1973 which has helped to fuel this mis-understanding of our true nature in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

You're explaining the trichotomy model of the human person.

An image would be nice:

We're made up of Body, Soul, Spirit.

Our spirit affects our body and our soul.
Our body and soul are amoral.
Our spirit is moral and can condition the soul.

It's this spirit in us that helps us to control the soul: Mind, Emotions, Will. That would be the New Man. The man that controls his soul with his newfound Spirit.

The Old Man tried to control his soul, but had no help from the Holy Spirit, thus it did not function well.

I have not seen this model before.
What these models often miss is learnt behaviour patterns and how the Lord
lays down in our lives through obedience new behaviour patterns.

There was a time when I would have thought you need to resolve things emotionally
and then behaviour would follow. I now think Jesus is actually a behaviourist, commanding
us to do actions in a particular way, and our emotions will get remodelled.

A lot of counselling predicated resolving conflicts in a personality.
I think Jesus calls us to learn to love because we are loved, to forgive because we are
forgiven, to help where needs are, because they are there and the conflicts within will
just disappear and we are transformed. So many barriers are not barriers, it is our past
which is wrong tells us they exist, but in Christ, remade, they have evaporated, by faith
we just need to walk through them.

The over mystical view of life, that dares not touch emotions, or the heart, or the sins
of the past, or go into sorrow about sin, or grief or wailing, makes their souls like an
untouchable dictator, but they dress it all up in religious mumbo jumbo about how we
are all doomed to fail, and be bound to sin, it is too difficult a problem to resolve.

One real life example about how changable we really are.
A doctor liked beer. When he went into a pub, he liked to have a pint.

15 minutes he spent looking at negative pictures of a pint of beer and
associating it with a bad experience. He also saw positive pictures of
an orange juice drink, and how refreshing and nice it was for him.

He did this once a week for 4 weeks.

At the end he went into a pub, and felt no interest in having a pint.
He literally could not believe such a small change in his attitudes and
reactions had had such a profound effect on what he liked or did not like.

We choose so much of what we do, and reinforce it, so it becomes like
a prison. In Christ we have a chance to change this, with the most powerful
love in all creation, yet behaviour is too big a thing for some. This is unbelief
in a real sense.

 

[FranC]

Yes, I understood the amoral aspect of the body and soul and I agree. The body itself is not evil nor is the soul. The soul to me is just a reflector of our thoughts. If I am fearful - then the emotions will rise from that and create distress. If I have no fear - then I will reflect joy.

Sin in our flesh is kind of like getting a parasite in our foot from a cut. It enters our body but at no point is it the real us. Sin came through the blood of the father which is one of the reasons why Jesus by the Holy Spirit conceived Him in Mary's womb.

We are called saints 65 times by Paul in his epistles. I go with his terminology. We are saints that sometimes give in to sin that is in the flesh and are deceived by it. A sinner is an "identity" and it conflicts with the new creation in Christ which is our only true identity.

Sin came through the blood of the father?
Is there scripture for this?
I've never heard it.
Because of Adam?

Please comment.