Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Well AMEN and Praise the Lord !!
There are two methods to express justification and sanctification.
Some churches teach Justification as the born again experience. Being declared just by God. We are now right with God.
Epesians 2:8
They then teach Progressive Justification as that continuing work that is in cooperation with God, to keep one saved throughout their life. God requires "works" from us, or whatever one would want to call them, and we must respond to God's requirements.
You're talking about the Kingdom of God.
Many times I've wondered if Jesus didn't fail in His attempt to show us the Kingdom.
He meant to do exactly what you're describing above.
He meant to show us a new way to live. A new transformed man and how he is to behave.
But we have those here who fight that. They say they're saved and then come works.
But they will Always deny that works are necessary.
If we don't do the works of the Kingdom, who will?
If we want to create a "new" man, then the works are absolutely necessary.
I wonder how many here know what you're really talking about.
Many times I've wondered if Jesus didn't fail in His attempt to show us the Kingdom.
He meant to do exactly what you're describing above.
He meant to show us a new way to live. A new transformed man and how he is to behave.
But we have those here who fight that. They say they're saved and then come works.
But they will Always deny that works are necessary.
If we don't do the works of the Kingdom, who will?
If we want to create a "new" man, then the works are absolutely necessary.
I wonder how many here know what you're really talking about.
I am with you Fran except for the words "we create".
We are just growing up into the kingdom. I keep saying to the Lord...why now Lord? Why not when I was young...but was young and stupid.
It's the fire...without the fire within...we are just embers.
I look around too...but was in the same religious rut. Not so now...catch it.
We are just growing up into the kingdom. I keep saying to the Lord...why now Lord? Why not when I was young...but was young and stupid.
It's the fire...without the fire within...we are just embers.
I look around too...but was in the same religious rut. Not so now...catch it.
Could you use the quote feature?
I can't remember what I said about creating...
wait.
OK. Found it. Yes. It's Language. WE do not create the New Man. He is created by God.
We do, however, have to be faithful to that new man.
We cannot abadon that new man.
We are free to walk out of the Kingdom whenever we want to.
Love is free.
God will not FORCE US TO LOVE HIM.
If one believes in eternal security, he must also believe that free will is not present after salvation.
And he must also believe that love for God is not Always a burning love,
Because when one DOES walk away, his love ends.
Does God still find joy in him?
Does God force him to stay?
Does God want true love or not?
If He does, he must let the abandoner abandon God.
I can't remember what I said about creating...
wait.
OK. Found it. Yes. It's Language. WE do not create the New Man. He is created by God.
We do, however, have to be faithful to that new man.
We cannot abadon that new man.
We are free to walk out of the Kingdom whenever we want to.
Love is free.
God will not FORCE US TO LOVE HIM.
If one believes in eternal security, he must also believe that free will is not present after salvation.
And he must also believe that love for God is not Always a burning love,
Because when one DOES walk away, his love ends.
Does God still find joy in him?
Does God force him to stay?
Does God want true love or not?
If He does, he must let the abandoner abandon God.
Really, we're to understand that the Holy Spirit is in us.
But since all three persons are equal, we can understand it as suits us.
When Jesus left and told us He would never leave us, He didn't mean that HE would be with us forever.
He said to wait in Jerusalem and the Holy Spirit would come. He said he would send us a comforter.
The Holy Spirit has the "job" of being the comforter. The convincer of our sins, our paraclete, who walks along our side.
But God is in us. This is Language and creates no theological problem.
As long as we don't understand it as Buddhists do -- which I don't believe anyone here does.
It just bothers me when one says that it's JESUS doing ALL THE WORK.
So, if it's Jesus doing ALL THE WORK, and we sin, Does This Mean Jesus Did a Bad Work?
You see. It can't all be on Jesus.
WE must share in the sanctifying process.
This is just a truth, not something I made up.
Anyone could Google SANCTIFICATION and find out what it means...
IT'S A COOPERATIVE EFFORT.
MAN MUST COOPERATE WITH GOD TO ACHIEVE HOLINESS.
God is NOT going to do all the work for us.
He already died on the cross, what more do we want?
This is why I call it cheap grace. It's CHEAP because it costs US nothing...
and instead...
Romans 12:1
But since all three persons are equal, we can understand it as suits us.
When Jesus left and told us He would never leave us, He didn't mean that HE would be with us forever.
He said to wait in Jerusalem and the Holy Spirit would come. He said he would send us a comforter.
The Holy Spirit has the "job" of being the comforter. The convincer of our sins, our paraclete, who walks along our side.
But God is in us. This is Language and creates no theological problem.
As long as we don't understand it as Buddhists do -- which I don't believe anyone here does.
It just bothers me when one says that it's JESUS doing ALL THE WORK.
So, if it's Jesus doing ALL THE WORK, and we sin, Does This Mean Jesus Did a Bad Work?
You see. It can't all be on Jesus.
WE must share in the sanctifying process.
This is just a truth, not something I made up.
Anyone could Google SANCTIFICATION and find out what it means...
IT'S A COOPERATIVE EFFORT.
MAN MUST COOPERATE WITH GOD TO ACHIEVE HOLINESS.
God is NOT going to do all the work for us.
He already died on the cross, what more do we want?
This is why I call it cheap grace. It's CHEAP because it costs US nothing...
and instead...
Romans 12:1
Yes. I know what you're saying.
John 6:68
But I know persons that have. For different resons. But then I have to hear they were never saved to begin with. They sure seemed saved.
How do you explain 2 Peter 2:20-22
How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6
How do you explain all the exhortations in the N.T. to HOLD FAST, CONTINUE IN, IF, IF, IF we do ...
I'll get quotes if you need them, but it's getting late here...
One...
2 Peter 1:5-10
IF you do these things, you will never FAIL.
This means that FAILING is possible...
John 6:68
But I know persons that have. For different resons. But then I have to hear they were never saved to begin with. They sure seemed saved.
How do you explain 2 Peter 2:20-22
How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6
How do you explain all the exhortations in the N.T. to HOLD FAST, CONTINUE IN, IF, IF, IF we do ...
I'll get quotes if you need them, but it's getting late here...
One...
2 Peter 1:5-10
IF you do these things, you will never FAIL.
This means that FAILING is possible...