Not By Works

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May 12, 2017
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They never believd, they wanted freed from Egypt, yet complained continually about gods provision, then demanded to be let back in.

only a few believed, and except for Moses, who did not enter due to sin, all entered.
The first generation ALL died EG, they did not enter in because of their continual unbelief, only Caleb and Joshua of the first generation entered the promise land and with the 2nd generation...God never left nor forsook the first generation, but they died in the wilderness after not believing the report of the 2 spies.

Numbers 13 & 14

Numbers 26.63-65
[SUP]63 [/SUP]These are those who were numbered by Moses and Eleazar the priest, who numbered the sons of Israel in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But among these there was not a man of those who were numbered by Moses and Aaron the priest, who numbered the sons of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai. [SUP]65 [/SUP]For the Lord had said of them, “They shall surely die in the wilderness.” And not a man was left of them, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

Numbers 32.6-13

[SUP]6 [/SUP]But Moses said to the sons of Gad and to the sons of Reuben, “Shall your brothers go to war while you yourselves sit here? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Now why are you discouraging the sons of Israel from crossing over into the land which the Lord has given them? [SUP]8 [/SUP]This is what your fathers did when I sent them from Kadesh-barnea to see the land. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For when they went up to the valley of Eshcol and saw the land, they discouraged the sons of Israel so that they did not go into the land which the Lord had given them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So the Lord’s anger burned in that day, and He swore, saying, [SUP]11 [/SUP]‘None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully, [SUP]12 [/SUP]except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have followed the Lord fully.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]So the Lord’s anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the Lord was destroyed.


Heb 3.7-19

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Where your fathers tried Me by testing Me,
And saw My works for forty years.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]As I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’”

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, [SUP]15 [/SUP]while it is said,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? [SUP]17 [/SUP]And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

So with peace, how can you say all the first generation entered in except for Moses?

This absolutely proves that a believer can and will fall away from belief in God and be destroyed for it. God never leaves them nor forsakes them, they left and forsook him.

This is not losing your salvation, this walking away from covenant relationship..

Better notice hard that it is the Holy spirit that says the things in Hebrews 3....
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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You smoked a funny fag:)
HAHAH not hardly.....it is German and is a profound statement made by the apostle to the Gentiles...

Jesus rettet die Sünder, von denen ich Chef bin

Jesus saves sinners, of whom I am chief............
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I did ask you. You didn't answer. Figured you weren't online (or too busy "talking" with the guys) and since he seemed to want to be a part of the conversation and you just stated he got you. Thought he could explain it.

Guess rebuking me outweighs actually clarifying your statement?

See post 15712

Still unanswered.
ANSWERED!

No way I could catch each and every post.
 
W

willybob

Guest
Really, are you so naive to believe that all who post on CC have a sound understanding of the Gospel?

Why do you keep avoiding answering, what is the gospel?

I would have not hesitate if I was asked. If you think that is a dumb question then you have no idea how many false gospels circulate the globe.

What is with all this insecurity around superficial things like looks and intelligence?

Eternal life ...Jesus laid it out very clearly when he spoke to Nicodemus.




What was He telling Nicodemus? that the old man has to die so the new man could be birthed...Nicodemus was one of the Pharisees that found redemption,,Praise God for that...be blessed
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Really, are you so naive to believe that all who post on CC have a sound understanding of the Gospel?

Why do you keep avoiding answering, what is the gospel?

I would have not hesitate if I was asked. If you think that is a dumb question then you have no idea how many false gospels circulate the globe.

What is with all this insecurity around superficial things like looks and intelligence?

Eternal life ...Jesus laid it out very clearly when he spoke to Nicodemus.




What was He telling Nicodemus? that the old man has to die so the new man could be birthed...Nicodemus was one of the Pharisees that found redemption,,Praise God for that...
Yep, he had faith in the redeemer, and was born again, he found out works will never save you.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I already explained this once

you do not lose faith in someone who never gives you reason to lose faith, unless you never really had faith to begin with.

eph 1 says. Have basically been given every spiritual blessing, if I believe that to begin with, and I experience it because it is true, leaving would be the most foolish thing ever,

its RS like a person gives you unlimited buying power, never having to pay anything back, and you use if for years, then all of a sudden, you deny it? Yeah right.

you want to think a person given eternal life, and everything they need spiritually will walk away and deny Christ? Feel free,

but it do not try to convince me it is possible, it's not.
I have a problem understanding you.

If I cannot walk away from God, it means He has taken away my Free Will.
Yet you state that you believe in Free Will.

I agree that it isn't easy to just walk out on God.
I like John 6:68. It's one of my favorite verses.

But you're saying it's impossible and by the same token I don't think you're a Calvinist.
So you're saying it's not even POSSIBLE?

Why?

Just clarify this:

Because WE wouldn't want to walk out.
OR
Because GOD holds us in His hand (etc. etc) and HE won't let us leave.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Somebody help me!
Get me another aspirin.

What did you just say?

God only saves those whom He knows want to be saved?
Something like that.

Are you sure you're not a Calvinist?

So let's see, do you think God saves people who do not want to be saved? To me that is more Calvinist, it removes free will

free will says god saved whoever chooses to be saved. Right?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Here's the original post.
Sorry Ariel --- I seem to miss posts; this goes too fast for me.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with free gifts from God.
I'm referring to a Calvinistic idea.

The one that says that God does EVERYTHING. He decides who will be saved and lost.
Not based on anything the person did or didn't do, believed or didn't believe, but based solely on an arbitrary decision made by HIM.

There are those on this thread that believe this. I couldn't disagree more.

So, my point is:

IF we're going to say that §God CONTROLS everything we do and we have no FREE WILL (which is what Calvinists believe)
THEN we must admit that when we sin, it is GOD who is MAKING US SIN.

See. I'm not saying that God makes us sin. Satan and our flesh listening to the sin nature makes us sin.

I'm saying IF --- we're saying something this is unbiblical --- THEN --- we must ALSO affirm this.


THIS IS WHY CALVINISM IS WRONG.
It attributes SIN TO GOD.
It changes the HOLY NATURE of God and turns Him into a monster.

I hope this explains.
I don't believe Calvinism teaches this, but not having studied their theology much I am not going to debate you on it but allow them to speak for themselves.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

However my comment is still applicable. Unless EG or others you see as believing in Calvinism address this issue, everything said will not make sense because you don't get what they mean when the words election and predestination is used.

Like "eternal security" I believe all three words have Biblical basis but can be twisted beyond what the Bible means for them to say.

Ephesians 1
9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have a problem understanding you.

If I cannot walk away from God, it means He has taken away my Free Will.
Yet you state that you believe in Free Will.

I agree that it isn't easy to just walk out on God.
I like John 6:68. It's one of my favorite verses.

But you're saying it's impossible and by the same token I don't think you're a Calvinist.
So you're saying it's not even POSSIBLE?

Why?

Just clarify this:

Because WE wouldn't want to walk out.
OR
Because GOD holds us in His hand (etc. etc) and HE won't let us leave.
this is really getting old

i did not say you could not, I said you WOULD not

huge difference, now can you please listen to me and stop trying to put words in my mouth?

You have to to explain why a person who has been given everything to fill that whole in his heart only God can fill will walk away from that.

please! Maybe you have not felt that? I do not know. But for those of us who have, you will neve convince us you could be given all god offers and walk away.

i am talking free will here, why do you walk away? Why?


 
Apr 30, 2016
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Hey Dcon
Did I just see a picture of you riding a bike?
Was that you?

See! I said you're a cutie. I could tell.
I think I have a crush on you!!!
Please don't tell Blue Lady.
She'll spread the news all over this forum.

How come you're such a cutie
And your Language is so tough?

Lighten up boy!!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jonah tried walk away, in fact he ran, did God let him go or do what he promised and go after him? Jonah still had free will till the end, God never removed his free will
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I have a problem understanding you.

If I cannot walk away from God, it means He has taken away my Free Will.
Yet you state that you believe in Free Will.

I agree that it isn't easy to just walk out on God.
I like John 6:68. It's one of my favorite verses.

But you're saying it's impossible and by the same token I don't think you're a Calvinist.
So you're saying it's not even POSSIBLE?

Why?

Just clarify this:

Because WE wouldn't want to walk out.
OR
Because GOD holds us in His hand (etc. etc) and HE won't let us leave.
We all have free will. And at times our free will detracts or leads us away from the Father.

But what is the will of the Father?

John 6:39-40
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
 
Apr 30, 2016
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this is really getting old

i did not say you could not, I said you WOULD not

huge difference, now can you please listen to me and stop trying to put words in my mouth?

You have to to explain why a person who has been given everything to fill that whole in his heart only God can fill will walk away from that.

please! Maybe you have not felt that? I do not know. But for those of us who have, you will neve convince us you could be given all god offers and walk away.

i am talking free will here, why do you walk away? Why?


A 14 year old boy and son and brother, was supposed to go to school one day.
Instead he packed his bathing suit and went with a few friends to the river that runs through town.
The Serchio River.
It has big rocks and boulders on the sides of the river. It's not very wide.
He fell and hit his head against a Boulder and died instantly.

His mom is no longer a Christian.
 
J

JoDel

Guest
The above assumes a lot of things, which cannot just be assumed.
Christ died to open a door of restoration with Him, which by its nature is
based on free will, which is the essence of love.

The Lord is our servant, He meets our needs, His desire is to help and empower
us to do the things that need doing. And we also freely choose to be like Him.
We cannot be like Him unless this is a free choice. So salvation as to be open,
to be received or walked away from. If you do not understand this is implicit in
God himself, you have not understood who He is.

Believers believe many different things, and being righteous is not one of the
ones I see expressed as their desperate desire. If anything their desire is to
mock and pour scorn on those who do desire righteousness and love, and claim
spiritual experience and authority trumps love and righteousness.

So it appears you are wrong on both propositions from my perspective.
You say "I" assume? Most of your response is nothing but assumption, so I thank you for your exemplary response. So, is it assumption that Paul states here as a BELIEVER??? I see no mockery from him... to the contrary... humility and confession. ... New International Version
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing.

New Living Translation
I want to do what is good, but I don't. I don't want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway.

English Standard Version
For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

Berean Study Bible
For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do.

Berean Literal Bible
For the good that I desire, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want, this I practice.

New American Standard Bible
For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

King James Bible
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.

International Standard Version
For I don't do the good I want to do, but instead do the evil that I don't want to do.

NET Bible
For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want!

New Heart English Bible
For the good which I desire, I do not do; but the evil which I do not desire, that I practice.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
It was not the good that I wanted that I did, but the evil that I did not want to do, that I did.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't do the good I want to do. Instead, I do the evil that I don't want to do.

New American Standard 1977
For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not desire, that I do.

King James 2000 Bible
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

American King James Version
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

American Standard Version
For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do.

Darby Bible Translation
For I do not practise the good that I will; but the evil I do not will, that I do.

English Revised Version
For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise.

Webster's Bible Translation
For the good that I would, I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Weymouth New Testament
For what I do is not the good thing that I desire to do; but the evil thing that I desire not to do, is what I constantly do.
 
B

Burninglight

Guest
Jesus did not pay anyones sins who hadnt repented ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,end of story
For God so love the world that He gave His beloved Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. He died for everyone's sins, but only those who accept Jesus as their Savior will benefit from it. If we have money in the bank and don't withdraw it when we need it, the money is useless to us. If we don't accept the gift of God by faith then His grace and gift can do nothing for us.
 
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May 12, 2017
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A 14 year old boy and son and brother, was supposed to go to school one day.
Instead he packed his bathing suit and went with a few friends to the river that runs through town.
The Serchio River.
It has big rocks and boulders on the sides of the river. It's not very wide.
He fell and hit his head against a Boulder and died instantly.

His mom is no longer a Christian.
Did this hurt woman curse God as well?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
A 14 year old boy and son and brother, was supposed to go to school one day.
Instead he packed his bathing suit and went with a few friends to the river that runs through town.
The Serchio River.
It has big rocks and boulders on the sides of the river. It's not very wide.
He fell and hit his head against a Boulder and died instantly.

His mom is no longer a Christian.
Did she ever trust Christ? If she did? how? god never promised a good life, or we would not have pain and suffering.

If if she did have faith, how dare you question her salvation.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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We all have free will. And at times our free will detracts or leads us away from the Father.

But what is the will of the Father?

John 6:39-40
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Bill,
This is true and matches scripture.

John 6:35 Jesus tells the people that were following Him that He is the Bread of Life and those that go to Jesus wil never hunger, and those who believe in HIm will never thirst. I do want you to notice that all his verbs are in the present tense.

John 6:36 All that the Father gives to Jesus, or is it all that come to Jesus have the Father? It's the same...
Those wom the Father knew would be saved will go to Jesus and Jesus will in no way cast them out.
Or we could say that those who go to Jesus, also will be in a son relationship with Father God.

John 6:38 Jesus came from Heaven to do the will of the Father... to save those who would believe in Him (Jesus) whom the Father knew from before the beginning of the world.

John 6:39 Jesus will not lose anyone that goes to Him. The FAther's will must surely be kept by Jesus.
Everyone who believes, continues to believe, in Jesus will be raised on the last day. (resurrection).

I Always say that the N.T. is a Whole book and we should not take out verses like this.
Do you mean that you believe whom the FAther will save will be saved and no one else,
Or that none will be lost? IOW, their Free Will is taken away after salvation.
 
May 12, 2017
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Did she ever trust Christ? If she did? how? god never promised a good life, or we would not have pain and suffering.
Have you ever, ever ministered with anyone who has lost a child? I think you would re-evaluate your words above if you ever had...