Nudity in the church?????
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K
1. It is a shame and wrong to uncover your nakedness to others. The priests were warned to wear undergarments so that their nakedness would not be discovered when they went up the steps to the altar in their robes. Their undergarments (linen breeches) were to cover from their loins (waist) to their thighs (Exodus 28:42). When the children of Israel made and worshipped the golden calf, Aaron "made them naked unto their shame" (Exodus 32:25). Isaiah 47:3 speaks of the shame of having your nakedness uncovered.
2. It is a sin to uncover the nakedness of another. This is seen as leading to other sins (see Leviticus 18:6-18).
3. It is wrong to look on the nakedness of others. Ham's son was cursed because Ham saw the nakedness of his father and went and talked about it (Genesis 9:22-23). Habakkuk 2:15 speaks of the wickedness of those who get someone drunk in order to "look on their nakedness."
One important point I need to make concerns the biblical definition of nakedness. We sometimes get the idea that nakedness refers only to having no clothing at all. However, this is neither true in the Bible nor in the English dictionary. One of the definitions for "naked" in my English dictionary is "without conventional or usual clothing." Many people do not know that the Bible often calls improper covering of the body nakedness. Most often it refers to the wearing of undergarments in public. This explains the nakedness of Saul (1Samuel 19:24), of David (2Samuel 6:14, 20; 1Chronicles 15:27), of Isaiah (Isaiah 20:2-4), and of Peter (John 21:7). It is interesting that Peter did not want Jesus to see him naked.
2. It is a sin to uncover the nakedness of another. This is seen as leading to other sins (see Leviticus 18:6-18).
3. It is wrong to look on the nakedness of others. Ham's son was cursed because Ham saw the nakedness of his father and went and talked about it (Genesis 9:22-23). Habakkuk 2:15 speaks of the wickedness of those who get someone drunk in order to "look on their nakedness."
One important point I need to make concerns the biblical definition of nakedness. We sometimes get the idea that nakedness refers only to having no clothing at all. However, this is neither true in the Bible nor in the English dictionary. One of the definitions for "naked" in my English dictionary is "without conventional or usual clothing." Many people do not know that the Bible often calls improper covering of the body nakedness. Most often it refers to the wearing of undergarments in public. This explains the nakedness of Saul (1Samuel 19:24), of David (2Samuel 6:14, 20; 1Chronicles 15:27), of Isaiah (Isaiah 20:2-4), and of Peter (John 21:7). It is interesting that Peter did not want Jesus to see him naked.
I have always said..there are no stupid questions just stupid answers. So with that said Let me say this about this question.
I have travelled the USA my whole life and have visited thousands of churches. Not even the same denominations, yet I have yet to come across one that was practicing nudity.
The term: "Apparently", raises a red flag for me as well. Based on that statement I assume you have not personally experienced any of these churches that practice this ritual?
I also happen to notice you must have been talking about this a few times with people. Since you state "Some" and later go on to say "others".
My question , before answering this biblically would be why do you need to solve this riddle? What is it about this subject interests or disturbs you? Is it the interest in the subject matter? Or the rebuke for those practicing this wrongly? Or perhaps just a question to balance out your overall perspective on all things? Perhaps even to get this room talking about something? Only you can answer that. And I don't preclude which one it is.
The specifics you can read in scriptures above me my brother has answered those well. but I will speak in a second on it even further.
Also, as you ask that question the issue of sexuality is brought to the forefront. Questions are fine, as I said, yet anytime we act in public our acts affect our surroundings, just a matter of fact.. This is a good and bad principle of truth. But I am just afraid Satan now can take a weaker Christian and let his mind wander unduly.
Now the answer Biblically. .... It comes from an obvious spot. The Garden of Eden. Gods intentions were that we would not need be embarrassed or misled in thought over nakedness, trust between God and ourselves had yet been broken.. Yet, the half- truth of Satan influenced the well known response of Eve showing her the hidden truth she was feeling robbed of, yet it was the awareness of her sin. as you probably already know she immediately was embarrassed and hid from God in her shame.
From that point now, nakedness is seen differently. It now is inappropriate, especially in the format of worship.We can say well we see it as God intended. But I see movements that have said the same thing..Harracritshnas [spelt wrong I'm sure, never cared to learn the correct spelling]..and many other cults that practice open nakedness under the ideology of it is pure, that ends up not practicing purity in Christ.
Satan wants "diversions"...this is one. We cannot escape sinful natures existence so why try?
Also, scripture answers this in many other ways..I can give you more specifics if you want to talk private. But just remember God says to go to Him over all things and do not be anxious about anything. But in all things in prayer and petition with thanksgiving- percent your requests to God. And the peace of God, that transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and minds thru Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7.
I have travelled the USA my whole life and have visited thousands of churches. Not even the same denominations, yet I have yet to come across one that was practicing nudity.
The term: "Apparently", raises a red flag for me as well. Based on that statement I assume you have not personally experienced any of these churches that practice this ritual?
I also happen to notice you must have been talking about this a few times with people. Since you state "Some" and later go on to say "others".
My question , before answering this biblically would be why do you need to solve this riddle? What is it about this subject interests or disturbs you? Is it the interest in the subject matter? Or the rebuke for those practicing this wrongly? Or perhaps just a question to balance out your overall perspective on all things? Perhaps even to get this room talking about something? Only you can answer that. And I don't preclude which one it is.
The specifics you can read in scriptures above me my brother has answered those well. but I will speak in a second on it even further.
Also, as you ask that question the issue of sexuality is brought to the forefront. Questions are fine, as I said, yet anytime we act in public our acts affect our surroundings, just a matter of fact.. This is a good and bad principle of truth. But I am just afraid Satan now can take a weaker Christian and let his mind wander unduly.
Now the answer Biblically. .... It comes from an obvious spot. The Garden of Eden. Gods intentions were that we would not need be embarrassed or misled in thought over nakedness, trust between God and ourselves had yet been broken.. Yet, the half- truth of Satan influenced the well known response of Eve showing her the hidden truth she was feeling robbed of, yet it was the awareness of her sin. as you probably already know she immediately was embarrassed and hid from God in her shame.
From that point now, nakedness is seen differently. It now is inappropriate, especially in the format of worship.We can say well we see it as God intended. But I see movements that have said the same thing..Harracritshnas [spelt wrong I'm sure, never cared to learn the correct spelling]..and many other cults that practice open nakedness under the ideology of it is pure, that ends up not practicing purity in Christ.
Satan wants "diversions"...this is one. We cannot escape sinful natures existence so why try?
Also, scripture answers this in many other ways..I can give you more specifics if you want to talk private. But just remember God says to go to Him over all things and do not be anxious about anything. But in all things in prayer and petition with thanksgiving- percent your requests to God. And the peace of God, that transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and minds thru Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7.
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K
Because we do escape the defilements of this world through Christ, and we are commanded to walk properly in the faith.
The bible then says those who escape those defilements through Christ, but then again turn back to them and get overcome by them their outcome (ending) will be worse then before. For it says it would have been better for them to have never known the way through Christ, then to have known if and then turned away from it.
Let me clarify the statement We cannot escape sinful natures existence...God Gave us the ten commandments to clarify sinful natures dominance over us. And show our inability to answer it's imprisonment thru our own effort alone. Hence the need for the Blood of Christ.
I assert the claim that we can escape sinful nature thru Christ's blood fully! By staying in His blood. Yet we cannot turn back the clock on Eves trust betrayal. And the issue of nakedness can never be seen without blemish because of it. This was my meaning. The statement was said with a "existence" clause, just to clarify.
I assert the claim that we can escape sinful nature thru Christ's blood fully! By staying in His blood. Yet we cannot turn back the clock on Eves trust betrayal. And the issue of nakedness can never be seen without blemish because of it. This was my meaning. The statement was said with a "existence" clause, just to clarify.
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I can't even stand the thought of looking in the mirror after a shower and before I put in my PJS. Yuck. Who else would desire that? This shouldn't even be talked about according to the Bible.
Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Why leave the door wide open to lust after another persons spouse, or visualizing the sick image of looking at oneself in the mirror with inflated pride because they have concluded that they are so good looking in the nude and they stand and smile at the image.
Introducing nakedness with self deceptive thoughts saying that it is something that the mind has the capability to suppress human instinct so we can be vacant of any ungodly thoughts and desires is not possible.
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Why leave the door wide open to lust after another persons spouse, or visualizing the sick image of looking at oneself in the mirror with inflated pride because they have concluded that they are so good looking in the nude and they stand and smile at the image.
Introducing nakedness with self deceptive thoughts saying that it is something that the mind has the capability to suppress human instinct so we can be vacant of any ungodly thoughts and desires is not possible. Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
I did chat online with a minister who told me that he preaches at a local nudist colony, in the buff. After I got over the initial shock...I tried to imagine taking communion, kneeling at the altar. The picture was anything but Holy. Whatever happened to COMMON SENSE? How can we glorify CHRIST, keeping HIM in the forefront of our lives when other people's nude, aged, wrinkled, tatooed, pierced and anything but buffed bodies are part of our worship service? Did not Paul speak about temple prostitutes? Not that all the nudists around you would want to procreate, but how can we honestly pray to our heavenly Father, sitting next to exposed genitalia?
D
There was a time I wasnt bothered by it
However, Im sure David didnt say "yuck" while sneaking a peek at Bathsheba showering (from the roof top)
But given we are "older folks" now I think we do come to the place where we say "yuck" and cant bear looking at our own selves naked in a mirror anymore.
Your feelings are understandable (and mutually shared) lol
However, Im sure David didnt say "yuck" while sneaking a peek at Bathsheba showering (from the roof top)
But given we are "older folks" now I think we do come to the place where we say "yuck" and cant bear looking at our own selves naked in a mirror anymore.
Your feelings are understandable (and mutually shared) lol
V
Hmmmm... it's interesting to note that even in the heavenly realm Jesus Himself and all the angels wear raiment. And I am looking forward to being clothed in my shining garment in glory because Jesus knows how I love shiny things. WOOHOO!! \/
This reminds me of an incident that happened when I was about 10 years old. (Psychomom, it's another story! LOL)
One summer our parents drove us to rural Pennsylvania to visit our happy-go-lucky aunt and uncle. My uncle drank a little too much sometimes and that day he happened to be rather tipsy. My aunt knew I liked to sketch and had given me a sketch pad and pencil to draw at her kitchen table. My uncle, in his merriment, suddenly grabbed a book off a shelf and thrust it open in front of me. It was an artsy book filled with pictures of nude women. He placed it on the table and told me to draw one of the photos. My face grew hot with embarrassment but I began to slowly trace an outline on the tablet because I was too timid to reject my foolheaded uncle. Then my dad was on the scene. His big arm came from behind me and gently picked the book up and handed it back to my uncle. "We don't need to draw that," he said in gentle authority. There was a bowl of fruit on the table and my father slid it in front of me. "Will you please draw that for me, Honey? I bet you will do an excellent job!" I was inspired from head to toe to draw the most beautiful sketch I could for my father out of love and gratefulness. Not only did he deliver me from my uncle's foolish request, but he made a way of escape for me by giving me another assignment that made me feel clean and joyful and filled with anticipation to do something worthy. I never forgot that, and I know God intended me not to.
I don't think nudity is evil. I took my children to the museum of art for years and never once thought paintings of nudity would corrupt them. But I know people (me included) are sick through and through in their carnal flesh and that we deceive ourselves if we think we can linger around people in the nude and not ever get tempted to think wrong thoughts.
Have we nothing better to do? I bet if we think outside the box of carnality we can think of a lot more exciting things to do.
/This reminds me of an incident that happened when I was about 10 years old. (Psychomom, it's another story! LOL)
One summer our parents drove us to rural Pennsylvania to visit our happy-go-lucky aunt and uncle. My uncle drank a little too much sometimes and that day he happened to be rather tipsy. My aunt knew I liked to sketch and had given me a sketch pad and pencil to draw at her kitchen table. My uncle, in his merriment, suddenly grabbed a book off a shelf and thrust it open in front of me. It was an artsy book filled with pictures of nude women. He placed it on the table and told me to draw one of the photos. My face grew hot with embarrassment but I began to slowly trace an outline on the tablet because I was too timid to reject my foolheaded uncle. Then my dad was on the scene. His big arm came from behind me and gently picked the book up and handed it back to my uncle. "We don't need to draw that," he said in gentle authority. There was a bowl of fruit on the table and my father slid it in front of me. "Will you please draw that for me, Honey? I bet you will do an excellent job!" I was inspired from head to toe to draw the most beautiful sketch I could for my father out of love and gratefulness. Not only did he deliver me from my uncle's foolish request, but he made a way of escape for me by giving me another assignment that made me feel clean and joyful and filled with anticipation to do something worthy. I never forgot that, and I know God intended me not to.
I don't think nudity is evil. I took my children to the museum of art for years and never once thought paintings of nudity would corrupt them. But I know people (me included) are sick through and through in their carnal flesh and that we deceive ourselves if we think we can linger around people in the nude and not ever get tempted to think wrong thoughts.
Have we nothing better to do? I bet if we think outside the box of carnality we can think of a lot more exciting things to do.
V
I also want to add that the incident I relayed above was regarding my first foster father, William. My three younger biological siblings and I had the blessing of being his true children from 1966 until he passed away in 1970. All the years previous to that and several years after, my siblings and I endured frightening poverty, malnutrition, and all manner of mental and physical violations. In the four years we were in William's loving care, he instilled in us a godly hope that is determined to overcome. Although my siblings and I suffered unimaginable abuse, the Lord brought each one of us to salvation.
I'm no stranger to perversity. I've been a victim of it my entire childhood and as a young adult lived a completely carnal life before being renewed by Jesus Christ. And soon after meeting Christ, I was brainwashed with religious legalism and went to the other side of the spectrum as a prudish Pharisee.
Praise Jesus Christ our Lord, Who is a rock of offense to them who think themselves wise and Who can humble a person until they break free of themselves. I got brought to nothing like King Nebuchadnezzar. Hallelujah! \/ Now I am free to live abundantly.
All this to say, "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."
And, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."
And, "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love."
I love the Lord because He heard my voice and set me free.
I'm no stranger to perversity. I've been a victim of it my entire childhood and as a young adult lived a completely carnal life before being renewed by Jesus Christ. And soon after meeting Christ, I was brainwashed with religious legalism and went to the other side of the spectrum as a prudish Pharisee.
Praise Jesus Christ our Lord, Who is a rock of offense to them who think themselves wise and Who can humble a person until they break free of themselves. I got brought to nothing like King Nebuchadnezzar. Hallelujah! \
/ Now I am free to live abundantly. All this to say, "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."
And, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."
And, "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love."
I love the Lord because He heard my voice and set me free.
At First Covenant Church in San Francisco, where I was a member during the late 1960s and early 1970s; we were located close to Dolores Park, a local Hippie gathering spot.
We began serving a lunch after each Sunday morning worship service at which all were welcome.
While church members dressed modestly and appropriately; visitors often arrived wearing little or no covering (especially young women and teen-aged girls). Nobody from the church ever criticized their clothing or lack thereof. We went out of our way to converse politely with all visitors and many were led to saving faith.
Without ever receiving a word of criticism, those who were saved began dressing modestly and appropriately.
We began serving a lunch after each Sunday morning worship service at which all were welcome.
While church members dressed modestly and appropriately; visitors often arrived wearing little or no covering (especially young women and teen-aged girls). Nobody from the church ever criticized their clothing or lack thereof. We went out of our way to converse politely with all visitors and many were led to saving faith.
Without ever receiving a word of criticism, those who were saved began dressing modestly and appropriately.
