No you misunderstand I cannot take in a lot of info, I can only take in so much at a time before my mind crashes. I have been reading and debating for a while and it made my brain very tired, I have severe brain damage and it makes me unable to reado to much or to take in to much info. like say someone makes a long post with lots of biblical info I cannot take all that in it's simply to much for my mind
Ok I have one scripture for the sinless
- Thread starter Blain
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Yes I understand Blain and sorry about your problems. I find that I can skim and understand exactly where someone stands with the Lord and whether their doctrine is correct or not through discerment not though understanding with my mind. But you are a young man still and I have walked with the Lord for 42 years so know that brain damage can be overcome by His Spirit teaching within if one keeps a humble teachable spirit..
Beautiful
But that's why I say we still sin in the flesh because to live holy/talking about sanctification you will always as long as you are alive and in this world have to deal with the world.
That's why it's confusing when someone says they don't have to sin and then someone in the world cuts them off and they have a bad thought towards that person.
In the flesh we sin.Don't kid yourself.
But that's why I say we still sin in the flesh because to live holy/talking about sanctification you will always as long as you are alive and in this world have to deal with the world.
That's why it's confusing when someone says they don't have to sin and then someone in the world cuts them off and they have a bad thought towards that person.
In the flesh we sin.Don't kid yourself.
All are sinners except for the man Christ Jesus.When we are saved our sins are forgiven but we still have the capacity to sin if we desire.
God said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh,which Paul said when he does good he finds evil is still present with him.
The Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfll the desires of the flesh.If we allow the Spirit to lead us we cannot sin for we are doing what the Spirit wants not the flesh but we still have the capacity to sin if we desire,and will still be tempted.
Some people might say after they are saved they are not sinning,which would be true if they are led of the Spirit,but some people say they are not sinning but do not understand the strictness of not sinning.
God said love not the world,or the things in the world.If any person love the world or the things in the world,the love of the Father is not in them,and having food and clothing,be content.
Since we are saved and belong to the kingdom of God all our time and resources should be all for the kingdom of God.
God said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh,which Paul said when he does good he finds evil is still present with him.
The Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfll the desires of the flesh.If we allow the Spirit to lead us we cannot sin for we are doing what the Spirit wants not the flesh but we still have the capacity to sin if we desire,and will still be tempted.
Some people might say after they are saved they are not sinning,which would be true if they are led of the Spirit,but some people say they are not sinning but do not understand the strictness of not sinning.
God said love not the world,or the things in the world.If any person love the world or the things in the world,the love of the Father is not in them,and having food and clothing,be content.
Since we are saved and belong to the kingdom of God all our time and resources should be all for the kingdom of God.
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Phil....go back and read what I wrote again.....no where did I say that we cannot cease from particular sins, but to say one is sinless and never sins or dont occasionally fail and sin is contrary to the truth........there is not A JUST MAN UPON the EARTH that DOES GOOD and SINS NOT.......everybody except JESUS has failed, will fail and OCCASIONALLY sin, either by choice and or omission....the bible is clear......!
it is the emphasis, not the information, that is misapplied.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach seeks to be pure, as he is pure.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach seeks to be perfect, because he said to be.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach is deeply opposed to sin, as HIS WORD SAYS often.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach seeks to live righteously BY FAITH, as HIS WORD SAYS often.
the people in the OT and in the NT who yahweh called righteous are righteous. no exception.
the people in the OT and in the NT who yahweh calls wicked are wicked. no exception.
and still,
HE provided for change. HE said man could not do it. YET HE ALSO SAID "choose you this day who you will serve"
and again "IF the wicked will turn from his wicked ways, and obey.... " (many examples)(or at least a few)
yet
also .... "IF the righteous turn back from their righteousness to do what is wicked..." (many examples)(or at least a few)
so there's a lot of considerations IN YAHWEH'S WORD that are not found in emphatic denial of living right before yahweh..... mainly, the plan and purpose of yahweh in yahshua, for his people to be perfect and to live rightly in union with yahweh in yahshua now, today, on earth, TODAY..... without sin.... then IF you sin, yahweh has provided a way to handle the sin.... so no condemnation... no worries... for those who trust and rely on HIM and HIS WORD for how to handle even sin when it happens,
and even more how to live each day....
everyone in yahshua hamashiach seeks to be pure, as he is pure.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach seeks to be perfect, because he said to be.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach is deeply opposed to sin, as HIS WORD SAYS often.
everyone in yahshua hamashiach seeks to live righteously BY FAITH, as HIS WORD SAYS often.
the people in the OT and in the NT who yahweh called righteous are righteous. no exception.
the people in the OT and in the NT who yahweh calls wicked are wicked. no exception.
and still,
HE provided for change. HE said man could not do it. YET HE ALSO SAID "choose you this day who you will serve"
and again "IF the wicked will turn from his wicked ways, and obey.... " (many examples)(or at least a few)
yet
also .... "IF the righteous turn back from their righteousness to do what is wicked..." (many examples)(or at least a few)
so there's a lot of considerations IN YAHWEH'S WORD that are not found in emphatic denial of living right before yahweh..... mainly, the plan and purpose of yahweh in yahshua, for his people to be perfect and to live rightly in union with yahweh in yahshua now, today, on earth, TODAY..... without sin.... then IF you sin, yahweh has provided a way to handle the sin.... so no condemnation... no worries... for those who trust and rely on HIM and HIS WORD for how to handle even sin when it happens,
and even more how to live each day....
Romans 7:20-23
king James version(kjv)
20.)now if I do that I would not,it is no more I that do it,but sin that dwelleth in me.
21.)I find then a law,that,when I would do good,sin is present with me.
22.)for I delight in the law of GOD after the inward man:
23.)but I see another law in my members,warring against the law of my mind,and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
king James version(kjv)
20.)now if I do that I would not,it is no more I that do it,but sin that dwelleth in me.
21.)I find then a law,that,when I would do good,sin is present with me.
22.)for I delight in the law of GOD after the inward man:
23.)but I see another law in my members,warring against the law of my mind,and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
The only one here that is weak, is you Phil, because you never answered Blain with the word, you just attacked, like you do all the time, when someone, especially anyone physically younger than you has better Biblical understanding. If you understand any form of strong meat, pl;ease answer Blain's question.
It is obvious you don't because when you are presented with it, you do what most babes in Christ do:
Throw up all over people, cry and get mad, make it all about you, and then poop all over anyone that has more understanding than you.
You pooped all over blain, because you really have no answer for his question.
You seem to have this need to get people to think your physical age is equated to your "spiritual maturity."
You might be 59 physically and have 59 years of earthly knowledge, but all your posts here and elsewhere prove your spiritual maturity age, matches your shoe size minus 4.
If anyone needs to come to full age it is you. On and for the record if you really knew the meat of the word, you would not be telling people you do not know if you are saved or not, because the "meat" of the word plainly tells you how to know.
It is obvious you don't because when you are presented with it, you do what most babes in Christ do:
Throw up all over people, cry and get mad, make it all about you, and then poop all over anyone that has more understanding than you.
You pooped all over blain, because you really have no answer for his question.
You seem to have this need to get people to think your physical age is equated to your "spiritual maturity."
You might be 59 physically and have 59 years of earthly knowledge, but all your posts here and elsewhere prove your spiritual maturity age, matches your shoe size minus 4.
If anyone needs to come to full age it is you. On and for the record if you really knew the meat of the word, you would not be telling people you do not know if you are saved or not, because the "meat" of the word plainly tells you how to know.
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Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
The word use is, "no" sin, as in our old unregenerated sin nature/man and the sin that is in our members.
Jesus refer to sin as, "he". Not as an offense, but as a living being.
Sin abides in all men, for we don't lose the old man when we receive a new one.
We have both a spirit of the devil abiding in us and a Spirit of and from God.
As the spirit is, so is the man. Hence, the war within.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
The word use is, "no" sin, as in our old unregenerated sin nature/man and the sin that is in our members.
Jesus refer to sin as, "he". Not as an offense, but as a living being.
Sin abides in all men, for we don't lose the old man when we receive a new one.
We have both a spirit of the devil abiding in us and a Spirit of and from God.
As the spirit is, so is the man. Hence, the war within.
To follow up on that, I am saying that we can live sinless lives, or God is unjust to tell us to do so.
Job was walking in sin, and yet God said He was a perfect and upright man.
If Job can do it, we certainly can through Christ.
God does not lie, nor would He tell you to do something that is not possible for you to do.
The sin that is in us is the man of sin, or the sin nature of man and in man. It is not saying that we haven't sinned, as in past tense, but that we have sin residing in us presently.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Job was walking in sin, and yet God said He was a perfect and upright man.
If Job can do it, we certainly can through Christ.
God does not lie, nor would He tell you to do something that is not possible for you to do.
The sin that is in us is the man of sin, or the sin nature of man and in man. It is not saying that we haven't sinned, as in past tense, but that we have sin residing in us presently.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
STH
The time when I would react with anger when someone cut me off was previous to my deliverance from the sin nature. I was thereafter dead to sin and alive to Christ and nothing came into my mind at all that was not in God's will. The problem I had previously had with anger springing up left me entirely. All sin comes from the heart but when it is pure in love, then no bad thoughts can come. It is always possible to fall from that and sin again though. I am not kidding myself, I had very strict ideas previously in what was sin. Many might think that the odd flash of anger is not sin. I called it sin.
The time when I would react with anger when someone cut me off was previous to my deliverance from the sin nature. I was thereafter dead to sin and alive to Christ and nothing came into my mind at all that was not in God's will. The problem I had previously had with anger springing up left me entirely. All sin comes from the heart but when it is pure in love, then no bad thoughts can come. It is always possible to fall from that and sin again though. I am not kidding myself, I had very strict ideas previously in what was sin. Many might think that the odd flash of anger is not sin. I called it sin.
The wretch of Romans 7 is not a description of an individual whom is saved.
The wretch of Romans 7 is a description of an individual who is carnal and sold under sin, whom is under conviction, and whom knowing the law cannot find a means to be set free from the bondage he is under.
Read it carefully.
Paul is giving an illustration in order to teach that the law cannot set one free from sin. It is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ which brings freedom.
Paul writes utilising the grammatical device of "Historical Present" to give a sense of vividness in the description of the wrest.
Here is some information...
Historical present - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The wretch has not been saved from the law of sin and death.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
The flesh will ALWAYS serve the law of sin which is why genuine Christians have done this...
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
The old man has to die once and for all in repentance.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
It is only the dead (figuratively speaking) who are freed from sin. The self service of natural passions in disobedience to God has to be totally abandoned once and for all. This occurs in the Baptism of Repentance where the axe is laid to the root of sin. In doing this God responds with the Baptism of Fire by which we are raised unto newness of life and empowered to walk in righteousness whereby we abide faithfully in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.
Very carefully read this description written by Paul...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
We are justified via the blood of Jesus when we enter into covenant with God with a true heart as described in Hebrews 10:19-22. Our hearts are purged of our previous crimes whereby we can now serve God in an acceptable manner having been granted a fresh start. We are then saved from that wrath of God THROUGH Jesus whereby we abide in the Spirit of His life, hence there is no condemnation upon those who are IN Jesus Christ who WALK after the Spirit.
Read very carefully...
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
The wretch of Romans 7 is a description of an individual who is carnal and sold under sin, whom is under conviction, and whom knowing the law cannot find a means to be set free from the bondage he is under.
Read it carefully.
Paul is giving an illustration in order to teach that the law cannot set one free from sin. It is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ which brings freedom.
Paul writes utilising the grammatical device of "Historical Present" to give a sense of vividness in the description of the wrest.
Here is some information...
Historical present - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The wretch has not been saved from the law of sin and death.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
The flesh will ALWAYS serve the law of sin which is why genuine Christians have done this...
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
The old man has to die once and for all in repentance.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
It is only the dead (figuratively speaking) who are freed from sin. The self service of natural passions in disobedience to God has to be totally abandoned once and for all. This occurs in the Baptism of Repentance where the axe is laid to the root of sin. In doing this God responds with the Baptism of Fire by which we are raised unto newness of life and empowered to walk in righteousness whereby we abide faithfully in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.
Very carefully read this description written by Paul...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
We are justified via the blood of Jesus when we enter into covenant with God with a true heart as described in Hebrews 10:19-22. Our hearts are purged of our previous crimes whereby we can now serve God in an acceptable manner having been granted a fresh start. We are then saved from that wrath of God THROUGH Jesus whereby we abide in the Spirit of His life, hence there is no condemnation upon those who are IN Jesus Christ who WALK after the Spirit.
Read very carefully...
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Yes it's important to note the past, present, and future when referring to sin. Sin is like monetary debt. Let's say before your sins were forgiven in Christ you had tons of debt, like lets say $100,000 dollars. And you on your own could in no way pay off that debt. But Christ came and paid off that debt for you completely wiping out the entire balance of debt, making it 0.
So if one asked you after your balance of debt was reduced to 0, "how much debt do you have" you might reply I have no debt, I am debtless because Jesus Christ paid my debt in full. And Jesus also told me not to accrue any more debt. But, being tempted from time to time you may have slipped up and charged a little more debt to your once 0 debt balance. But you also remembered the Lord was very merciful and said if you perhaps slip up and accrue more debt, but then afterward repent and seek forgiveness, I also will forgive that debt bringing your debt balance back to zero. So once again, you could say you are debtless.
But what if one knowingly went against the Lords command not to accrue any more debt, and went out on a spending spree thinking he can do as he pleases with reckless abandon not repenting of is debt, nor even desiring to change his wicked and covetous practices?
So if one asked you after your balance of debt was reduced to 0, "how much debt do you have" you might reply I have no debt, I am debtless because Jesus Christ paid my debt in full. And Jesus also told me not to accrue any more debt. But, being tempted from time to time you may have slipped up and charged a little more debt to your once 0 debt balance. But you also remembered the Lord was very merciful and said if you perhaps slip up and accrue more debt, but then afterward repent and seek forgiveness, I also will forgive that debt bringing your debt balance back to zero. So once again, you could say you are debtless.
But what if one knowingly went against the Lords command not to accrue any more debt, and went out on a spending spree thinking he can do as he pleases with reckless abandon not repenting of is debt, nor even desiring to change his wicked and covetous practices?
What Satan has done is introduce doctrines which effectively destroy the true message of the Bible by subtly redefining the terms.
The major deception in operation today is the doctrine of Original Sin. Original Sin teaches that the reason people sin is because they are "born sinners" and thus sin is not the result of a choice but instead a "birth nature."
When the cause of sinning is attributed to ones birth then by necessity one cannot conclude that they are personally responsible for their sinning. The blame has been shifted. This results in the rejection of the notion of the Baptism of Repentance in that it has to be redefined to eliminate any concept of "ceasing from sin" via the "crucifixion of the flesh."
Satan knows that genuine repentance and faith are the means by which we can utilise the blood of Jesus in seeking reconciliation and thus he has attacked the truth at the root by redefining the terms.
Those whom believe in Original Sin, by necessity, must teach that man is unable to obey God. Thus the burden of change falls on God alone and a "wait on God" attitude is born. This is why the people who believe this will argue in favour of ongoing sinning in salvation.
The Bible teaches that the Christian has "escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." That is not taught at all today by those promoting the lie.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Sinning is the result of this process...
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is the result of lust being conceived in the mind. The Gospel presents us the means by which we can escape the corruption wrought by lust. That corruption is escaped through the crucifixion of the flesh whereby we find ourselves in an obedient state towards God. God will only empower the obedient because, by necessity, the disobedient are casting God out. God does not force Himself on anyone. We have to cleanse ourselves first via godly sorrow working repentance UNTO salvation. It is not salvation unto godly sorrow working repentance.
Salvation is salvation and it means to have been saved from something. Jesus Christ literally saves us from sin through the Spirit of His life. One cannot be abiding in Jesus Christ and still sinning against Jesus Christ. Serving sin and serving God are mutually exclusive states.
Don't be deceived by the teaching that one can sin and not surely die. Rebellion to God is death. Rebellion to God results in a dead state and it is immediate. God may be withholding the judgement for He is not willing that any should perish but don't presume on this withholding for we know not when the axe will fall.
The major deception in operation today is the doctrine of Original Sin. Original Sin teaches that the reason people sin is because they are "born sinners" and thus sin is not the result of a choice but instead a "birth nature."
When the cause of sinning is attributed to ones birth then by necessity one cannot conclude that they are personally responsible for their sinning. The blame has been shifted. This results in the rejection of the notion of the Baptism of Repentance in that it has to be redefined to eliminate any concept of "ceasing from sin" via the "crucifixion of the flesh."
Satan knows that genuine repentance and faith are the means by which we can utilise the blood of Jesus in seeking reconciliation and thus he has attacked the truth at the root by redefining the terms.
Those whom believe in Original Sin, by necessity, must teach that man is unable to obey God. Thus the burden of change falls on God alone and a "wait on God" attitude is born. This is why the people who believe this will argue in favour of ongoing sinning in salvation.
The Bible teaches that the Christian has "escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." That is not taught at all today by those promoting the lie.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Sinning is the result of this process...
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is the result of lust being conceived in the mind. The Gospel presents us the means by which we can escape the corruption wrought by lust. That corruption is escaped through the crucifixion of the flesh whereby we find ourselves in an obedient state towards God. God will only empower the obedient because, by necessity, the disobedient are casting God out. God does not force Himself on anyone. We have to cleanse ourselves first via godly sorrow working repentance UNTO salvation. It is not salvation unto godly sorrow working repentance.
Salvation is salvation and it means to have been saved from something. Jesus Christ literally saves us from sin through the Spirit of His life. One cannot be abiding in Jesus Christ and still sinning against Jesus Christ. Serving sin and serving God are mutually exclusive states.
Don't be deceived by the teaching that one can sin and not surely die. Rebellion to God is death. Rebellion to God results in a dead state and it is immediate. God may be withholding the judgement for He is not willing that any should perish but don't presume on this withholding for we know not when the axe will fall.
Yes, Paul is speaking of his life as a Pharisee in Rom ch7. He is explaining that when he hinged his hope of Heaven on obeying the law he became a worse sinner-sins slave. It is tragic many who go to church preach the same thing today, they just do so not forthrightly but by subtelty. Many people who have then attended such churches have ended up as Paul did in rom 7, it is so very tragic