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R
God does seem to have interacted with gentile peoples more than some people might think...for example if you read the history of the altar 'to an unknown God' that is actually a story behind it that is much more than just some greek philosopher trying to cover absolutely all his bases by making an altar to any deity he might have missed...
there is also a whole lot of evidence that the most ancient cultures started out with the worship of one supreme transcendent creator God...who they forgot about as they began deifying ancestors and personifying and idolizing the forces of nature...
in scripture you have people like melchizedek or job or jethro who were gentiles but who knew the true God without hearing about him from the israelites...
however God also chose to reveal -most- of what he had to say through the people of israel...but even then God had major plans for the gentiles...one of the specific promises God gave to abraham was that all peoples...meaning the gentiles...would be blessed through him...
so the word that God gave to the israelites was not only for them but for the gentiles too!
there is also a whole lot of evidence that the most ancient cultures started out with the worship of one supreme transcendent creator God...who they forgot about as they began deifying ancestors and personifying and idolizing the forces of nature...
in scripture you have people like melchizedek or job or jethro who were gentiles but who knew the true God without hearing about him from the israelites...
however God also chose to reveal -most- of what he had to say through the people of israel...but even then God had major plans for the gentiles...one of the specific promises God gave to abraham was that all peoples...meaning the gentiles...would be blessed through him...
so the word that God gave to the israelites was not only for them but for the gentiles too!
J
I want to thank everyone who took the time to answer my questions. I read them all. I am still perplexed thou. The Torah according to my bible (NKJV), was kept by the Jews and after the Book of Malachi; God remained silent for 400 years, only with the coming of John the Baptist did he again communicate with his people. Key word is his people. Aren't the entire population of the world his people from the time of Adam to present? And, all the thousands of billions of people who never knew of Jesus around the world, how can they go to heaven when Jesus is the only way. The most prosperous empires in history did not worship God or Jesus. The Mayas, the Aztecs, the Romans, the large empire that once was in Africa, the Asian empires did not know God. It seems like only a hand full of people got the message of the plan of salvation. What was the plan of salvation back then?. God did not try very hard to save the souls through-out the rest of the world. The Mayas had no clue of God (Jehovah) when the Europeans invaded the Americas. Why would God have chosen people anyway? Jews never became a great nation through out the world. Why did they have to move to Egypt if God was so loving with them. Don't tell me because they were sinners, when everyone is a sinner. Why all the secrecy from God? Its a lousy plan and nobody is getting it. Sure you guys have a lot of answers but I see you people bickering over thing said in the Bible. In the old testament there was a traffic of messengers from Heaven coming and going all the time and now nothing. Jesus shows up and now people are on the band wagon to be Christians. And, I see the blind leading the blind. You actually have to pay a preacher to explain the bible for you. The Pope an not even understand the bible. How easily swayed are people when they have to church shop to find just that right one that agrees with their interpretation of the plan of salvation. How many Christians really know what the bible says. My soul is on the line here and I cannot place my foot in any church that I agree with. Some churches pay tithing, others do not . some baptize, other do not. Some eat the bread and water (Lords Supper), some do not. Some like to wear the very thing that killed Jesus on their neck , other so not. and the biggest church of them all just about breaks every commandment of God, and some do not. Seems to me that God is a God of Confusion. The Mormons believe all others are wrong except them, so do the Jehovah Witness, so do the Catholics , the 7 day Adventist and on and on. Is this it? this is the top of the food chain for God. What am I suppose to believe?
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Romans 2:9-10
Why didn't Jesus come as a Gentile? That would be a good rhetorical question to say to yourself, and then ask God to enlighten your understanding about that one thing. There's a reason, but one will never find the truth of it by rejecting even one part of the Old Testament.
To the Samaritan woman at the well Jesus said; "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Romans 2:9-10
Why didn't Jesus come as a Gentile? That would be a good rhetorical question to say to yourself, and then ask God to enlighten your understanding about that one thing. There's a reason, but one will never find the truth of it by rejecting even one part of the Old Testament.
To the Samaritan woman at the well Jesus said; "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22
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God is not bound by time as we are. He always sees from one end of eternity to the other (figuratively of course, since eternity is unending). God knew that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit before He created them; but I don't believe that He influenced their decision. God's plan of redemption was in place before God created anything.
God's plan of redemption included foreknowledge of Jesus' lineage; including the faithfulness of the faithful and the apostasy of the apostate. That is why I believe in free will. Nothing else makes sense to me.
We may try to discern why God works as He does through what He has revealed; but what He has not chosen to disclose is unknowable.
God's plan of redemption included foreknowledge of Jesus' lineage; including the faithfulness of the faithful and the apostasy of the apostate. That is why I believe in free will. Nothing else makes sense to me.
We may try to discern why God works as He does through what He has revealed; but what He has not chosen to disclose is unknowable.
P
You're discounting way too many things. God regularly spoke to the peoples of different nations...whether by sending them a prophet, like Jonah going to Nineveh, or whether by having his prophets take up lamentations and the such upon other nations and warn them via the same. Also, there were kings, such as Nebuchadnezzar, who made decrees in relation to God throughout all their kingdoms:
Daniel chapter 3 verses 28 and 29
Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.
How did the magi know that a King of the Jews was to be born?
Etc., etc., etc.
Daniel chapter 3 verses 28 and 29
Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.
How did the magi know that a King of the Jews was to be born?
Etc., etc., etc.
J
I know about what you said here. I am talking about the lineage, straight to the Jews. How can he walk with these people and not today with anyone. Is it because we have the holy spirit? That burning feeling in your heart or the voices in or heads. How can you tell if its the holy spirit or Satan giving you thoughts. Believers of any religion have this all knowing feeling that God is talking to them and giving them understanding. That's what drives people to do what they do right or wrong. Ok, He walked with a hand full of people in history past, but what was the plan of salvation? God does not want us all in Heaven. I feel like we are like them turtles that hatch by the millions but only a very few make it to adulthood.
Most get eaten before they reach the water. Why is God so illusive, because we are sinners and he can not be seen by sinners? Was Lot without sin? Was Job sinless? Was Moses Sinless? Before the written word how did God plan to communicate his existence all over the world. We are talking about saving souls here, America had to wait like almost two thousand years before the word reach these continents. No plan of salvation here. Billions died not knowing God. God did not reveal himself to the masses back then. And, today I know of thousands of people maybe million or billions that do not have a clue of the contents of the bible. They believe that it only takes faith to go to Heaven but it is OK to ignore what the bible says. The word says that Jesus died for our sins, and we get to go to heaven if we accept that sacrifice; but aren't we still sinners. For instance: If i say I like to steal and commit adultery but I love Jesus, aren't I still a sinner at heart? But, by my faith, I will go to Heaven. Can we really stop sinning? And then when we get written words from God, he tells us to stone people for their sins. Christians are such sell outs, doing Christmas and Easter. God wants us to stone people to death for being Gay, working on the Sabbath (which I see nobody keeping this day holy, not with football games on Sunday and grocery stores open 24/7. And then Sabbath means Saturday not Sunday, whats up with this? Woman preachers are OK now. You say god talked to people back then (in different manners) did he relay all his rules that he imposed on us to them. How effective was God message when he had to kill all during Noah's time? It seems like only his Prophets survived his wrath. I am not trying to be a smart donkey here, I am a Borderline Atheist; which means that I have almost given up on believing in God. I asked a Christian (askingachristian.com) why he believes in the Bible. His answer was, "Because I don't question the Bible". For me the more I read the bible and see how people worship today the less I believe. The more I step out of the box and look in the less I believe. And, you know what? About two months ago I was the special music at the church where my father attends (United Methodist Church), and I performed there about 4 or 5 times. I like to sing and play guitar from the Bob Dylan "Slow Train" Album. And, I also wrote a song that I posted on Youtube, "Open the Door". (I am not pushing it or trying to get you to watch it). And now, I am literally a Doubting Thomas. But, I am here on this site because I am for real. I have not closed my mind to the possibility of the existence of the God of the Bible.
Most get eaten before they reach the water. Why is God so illusive, because we are sinners and he can not be seen by sinners? Was Lot without sin? Was Job sinless? Was Moses Sinless? Before the written word how did God plan to communicate his existence all over the world. We are talking about saving souls here, America had to wait like almost two thousand years before the word reach these continents. No plan of salvation here. Billions died not knowing God. God did not reveal himself to the masses back then. And, today I know of thousands of people maybe million or billions that do not have a clue of the contents of the bible. They believe that it only takes faith to go to Heaven but it is OK to ignore what the bible says. The word says that Jesus died for our sins, and we get to go to heaven if we accept that sacrifice; but aren't we still sinners. For instance: If i say I like to steal and commit adultery but I love Jesus, aren't I still a sinner at heart? But, by my faith, I will go to Heaven. Can we really stop sinning? And then when we get written words from God, he tells us to stone people for their sins. Christians are such sell outs, doing Christmas and Easter. God wants us to stone people to death for being Gay, working on the Sabbath (which I see nobody keeping this day holy, not with football games on Sunday and grocery stores open 24/7. And then Sabbath means Saturday not Sunday, whats up with this? Woman preachers are OK now. You say god talked to people back then (in different manners) did he relay all his rules that he imposed on us to them. How effective was God message when he had to kill all during Noah's time? It seems like only his Prophets survived his wrath. I am not trying to be a smart donkey here, I am a Borderline Atheist; which means that I have almost given up on believing in God. I asked a Christian (askingachristian.com) why he believes in the Bible. His answer was, "Because I don't question the Bible". For me the more I read the bible and see how people worship today the less I believe. The more I step out of the box and look in the less I believe. And, you know what? About two months ago I was the special music at the church where my father attends (United Methodist Church), and I performed there about 4 or 5 times. I like to sing and play guitar from the Bob Dylan "Slow Train" Album. And, I also wrote a song that I posted on Youtube, "Open the Door". (I am not pushing it or trying to get you to watch it). And now, I am literally a Doubting Thomas. But, I am here on this site because I am for real. I have not closed my mind to the possibility of the existence of the God of the Bible.
A
We have the true God. How many denoms and nondenoms reinvented him into their own private no-god? What is different now than 4000 years ago? Sure, the Chinese made a wide plethora of gods, but the original one, even before they were Chinese was Jao. (1600 years before they were Chinese.) So God got there.
And same deal with Greece even before it was Greece. I'm talking somewhere around or before 4000 years ago. You're imagining Ancient Greece a few centuries before Christ. By that time there was no Jove. They turned him into an inept Jupiter.
And same deal with Greece even before it was Greece. I'm talking somewhere around or before 4000 years ago. You're imagining Ancient Greece a few centuries before Christ. By that time there was no Jove. They turned him into an inept Jupiter.
You ask a question and then answer it, but your assumption here is wrong. If what you are thinking aligns with what is clearly advocated in Scripture, would you think it more likely to be from the Holy Spirit of God or from Satan? You know the answer.
Another wrong assumption.
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
If that were true, nobody would have seen Him ever.
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Another wrong assumption. God's plan of salvation was prepared before the foundation of the world.
We are all sinners. Jesus took the penalty for the sins of the world. Do you believe in Him? He is the cornerstone of faith. Start there, receive it for yourself first. Until or unless you get that part, worrying about what others believe is futile.
You are terribly confused. Christians are called to love all. Loving someone does not mean stone them to death.
Such a broad brush.
Wrong again. Please study the Newer Covenant, not what was given to the Hebrew nations.
The law condemns. It was not given to save anyone.
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.
How many were listening back then?
Do you believe in God?
Do you believe?
It doesn't look like you do believe.
Get your heart right with God, and your mind will follow. You are putting the cart before the horse, otherwise.
Another wrong assumption.
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
If that were true, nobody would have seen Him ever.
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Another wrong assumption. God's plan of salvation was prepared before the foundation of the world.
We are all sinners. Jesus took the penalty for the sins of the world. Do you believe in Him? He is the cornerstone of faith. Start there, receive it for yourself first. Until or unless you get that part, worrying about what others believe is futile.
You are terribly confused. Christians are called to love all. Loving someone does not mean stone them to death.
Such a broad brush.
Wrong again. Please study the Newer Covenant, not what was given to the Hebrew nations.
The law condemns. It was not given to save anyone.
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.
How many were listening back then?
Do you believe in God?
Do you believe?
It doesn't look like you do believe.
Get your heart right with God, and your mind will follow. You are putting the cart before the horse, otherwise.
J
The Jews are a key factor in my belief in God. And, I believe this because this religion and related group of people have maintained faith and traditions that go back far more distant than any other group of people. The fact that they still practice passover, an unbroken tradition since the time of Moses may prove that the Bible is real. And, this fact cannot be overlooked because, why else would the Passover be started? It is unlikely that a small conspiracy in the desert would start out of thin air. And, also the fact that these people remember being in the desert in the first place; would not be a fairy tale that I would want to invent. And, thoughts and inventions are created by one person first and then they spreads. But, in this case there were too many real witness for it to be false. So, this may be a reason why this group of people were chosen; like in a game show-God needed some participants. If God revealed himself to other nations he did not leave a very good footprint. This would have been to much of a witness of God's presence of his true existence that it would no longer be faith thing. If God wanted to give us more proof of his existence he would have.
On the first part I agree.
However, I am not mistaken here, especially on the Hellenists, whom I've researched too much. I used to think the same thing when first exploring religion, but it's not true. I have found this concept is newer and is colored by the secularist views of the modern era. The Bible is clear that all the false gods of the nations are no-gods. It is even a recurring theme in the Bible. Aside from that these false religions' own canons are fairly clear on it too, especially the Greeks and Romans, as their false gods bear no resemblance to the true God, and they lack truly godlike qualities.
1 Chronicles 16:24-26
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For all the gods of the people are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.
However, I am not mistaken here, especially on the Hellenists, whom I've researched too much. I used to think the same thing when first exploring religion, but it's not true. I have found this concept is newer and is colored by the secularist views of the modern era. The Bible is clear that all the false gods of the nations are no-gods. It is even a recurring theme in the Bible. Aside from that these false religions' own canons are fairly clear on it too, especially the Greeks and Romans, as their false gods bear no resemblance to the true God, and they lack truly godlike qualities.
1 Chronicles 16:24-26
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For all the gods of the people are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.