One sin and your done?
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Short List vs. Long List
Phariseeism has never gone away. It simply changes with the times. The Pharisees were able to say they kept the law, because they changed the law to fit them. They made it a Short List.
Here is an example for the Sabbath Laws.
The water needed for the Sabbath was supposed to be gathered the day before, because lifting water out of a well was work. The Pharisees didn't cotton to infringing on their water consumption, so they turned it into "don't use a rope" on the Sabbath. Corsets were used, but no rope was made to bind them. So they could draw water out of a well by tying corsets together. (And that's a lot of work to tie corsets together like that!
)
Short Listed that law.
Much easier to reinvent the Law than to deal with "I can't do that, LORD, help me. I need you."
The modern day Pharisees do it another way. They pick something they can do and then show that off, while condemning those who can't do it.
One of the banner slogans of Pharisees from the beginning of the 20th century was "Don't drink, don't smoke, nor chew, and don't go with those who do."
Short listing.
What does the Law say about drinking alcohol, smoking or chewing (tobacco)?
Alcohol? Moderation.
Absolutely nothing about tobacco at all. Was God shortsighted, and didn't know Man would find tobacco (or other things) to inhale? (And there is proof people were making opiates from poppies in 4000 BC in Sumeria, so not like it hadn't already started.) Not much of a god, if he missed it. But it's a really good way of justifying ourselves rather than dealing with our real failures. If you don't consume tobacco, you can point your finger at others and say, "See? I'm better than that, God."
Smoking or chewing tobacco is very destructive. It helps cause inflammation in the body, which, for someone who is disabled in chronic pain makes the pain worse! The rest of the stupidity of consuming tobacco has been publicized enough that it doesn't need repeating. It truly is one of the more stupid things we do to ourselves.
I still smoke. I still smoke, because I can't quit, and God hasn't given me enough strength to quit. I don't know why. Every exsmoker loves to say, "I quit, so you can too." I'd love to join in those ranks, and be that annoying too. I really would, but God has not given me that strength yet.
This I do know:
a. It is not sin.
b. You cannot lose salvation (of any sort) because you are a smoker.
c. It is really, REALLY stupid to smoke!
Dai, don't let anyone confuse you with the Short List vs. God's grace on us. God's salvation. HE saved us! He absolutely knew what messes we were, and still are. He chose us because he wanted to, not because we deserve it. He is keeping us! AND, he is drawing us closer and closer to who he is, not who the Pharisees are.
I have tried quitting six times in the last two years. (Made it to Day 5 once. I hope you get how amazing that is, Dai.) My hope now is that God will draw me even closer to give me his strength to quit. I do not have to hope for salvation, because he has/is/will keep saving me. HE promised!
Phariseeism has never gone away. It simply changes with the times. The Pharisees were able to say they kept the law, because they changed the law to fit them. They made it a Short List.
Here is an example for the Sabbath Laws.
The water needed for the Sabbath was supposed to be gathered the day before, because lifting water out of a well was work. The Pharisees didn't cotton to infringing on their water consumption, so they turned it into "don't use a rope" on the Sabbath. Corsets were used, but no rope was made to bind them. So they could draw water out of a well by tying corsets together. (And that's a lot of work to tie corsets together like that!
)Short Listed that law.
Much easier to reinvent the Law than to deal with "I can't do that, LORD, help me. I need you."
The modern day Pharisees do it another way. They pick something they can do and then show that off, while condemning those who can't do it.
One of the banner slogans of Pharisees from the beginning of the 20th century was "Don't drink, don't smoke, nor chew, and don't go with those who do."
Short listing.
What does the Law say about drinking alcohol, smoking or chewing (tobacco)?
Alcohol? Moderation.
Absolutely nothing about tobacco at all. Was God shortsighted, and didn't know Man would find tobacco (or other things) to inhale? (And there is proof people were making opiates from poppies in 4000 BC in Sumeria, so not like it hadn't already started.) Not much of a god, if he missed it. But it's a really good way of justifying ourselves rather than dealing with our real failures. If you don't consume tobacco, you can point your finger at others and say, "See? I'm better than that, God."
Smoking or chewing tobacco is very destructive. It helps cause inflammation in the body, which, for someone who is disabled in chronic pain makes the pain worse! The rest of the stupidity of consuming tobacco has been publicized enough that it doesn't need repeating. It truly is one of the more stupid things we do to ourselves.
I still smoke. I still smoke, because I can't quit, and God hasn't given me enough strength to quit. I don't know why. Every exsmoker loves to say, "I quit, so you can too." I'd love to join in those ranks, and be that annoying too. I really would, but God has not given me that strength yet.
This I do know:
a. It is not sin.
b. You cannot lose salvation (of any sort) because you are a smoker.
c. It is really, REALLY stupid to smoke!
Dai, don't let anyone confuse you with the Short List vs. God's grace on us. God's salvation. HE saved us! He absolutely knew what messes we were, and still are. He chose us because he wanted to, not because we deserve it. He is keeping us! AND, he is drawing us closer and closer to who he is, not who the Pharisees are.
I have tried quitting six times in the last two years. (Made it to Day 5 once. I hope you get how amazing that is, Dai.) My hope now is that God will draw me even closer to give me his strength to quit. I do not have to hope for salvation, because he has/is/will keep saving me. HE promised!
Salvation is eternal based upon birth and cannot be forfeit, FELLOWSHIP is based upon obedience and can be temporarily suspended due to ongoing sin
a. Born of incorruptible seed<---what does incorruptible seed
b. Jesus was BORN the son of GOD, just as we are BORN AGAIN SPIRITUALLY the SONS and Daughters of GOD
c. A son by birth cannot ever be change and or lost.....
FELLOWSHIP on the other hand is based upon walking in the light and being obedient to the truth
God whips EVERY SON he receives which yields the peaceable fruits of righteousness
Fellowship can be suspended if we walk outside the light, yet our eternal standing as a child of God remains
a. Born of incorruptible seed<---what does incorruptible seed
b. Jesus was BORN the son of GOD, just as we are BORN AGAIN SPIRITUALLY the SONS and Daughters of GOD
c. A son by birth cannot ever be change and or lost.....
FELLOWSHIP on the other hand is based upon walking in the light and being obedient to the truth
God whips EVERY SON he receives which yields the peaceable fruits of righteousness
Fellowship can be suspended if we walk outside the light, yet our eternal standing as a child of God remains
Hebrews 10:26 uses the word wilfull sin so this isnt someone "short-listing" anything, its what the bible speaks of, there are different sins for sure, all sin is NOT equal, not under the law of moses (different penalties) and not under the new covenant (some sins are unto death, not to be prayed for)
There are people who believe that if you don't beg for forgiveness after every sin you do and you die you will go to hell, there are people who also believe firmly in works and their own cleanliness. I do not envy such people who think sin has such power over us in that way, how high the wall is to climb to reach the top of works never realizing the rope we are using to help us climb is slowly about to snap.
The thing with me personally is when i look at myself and see my sins and try to be clean and holy by my own effort I always fail, all i see is a sinner who can never measure up and when i see only this sin in me my body feels gross and unclean as well.
But when in my tears of my sins and failings i look to Jesus and believe him when he says i am clean and holy and beautiful beyond my imagination i feel clean and refreshed both inside and out even my body feels like this.
It's interesting how our view of our spiritual stature can even affect our own bodies
The thing with me personally is when i look at myself and see my sins and try to be clean and holy by my own effort I always fail, all i see is a sinner who can never measure up and when i see only this sin in me my body feels gross and unclean as well.
But when in my tears of my sins and failings i look to Jesus and believe him when he says i am clean and holy and beautiful beyond my imagination i feel clean and refreshed both inside and out even my body feels like this.
It's interesting how our view of our spiritual stature can even affect our own bodies
Those who sin willfully and trample the sacrifice of Jesus under foot, there is no more offering for sin sacrifice, roughly in those words. The old testament apparently also says, roughly, intentional sin has no sacrifice for atonement. Punishment came to King David and he lost his sons after willful sin. But because he loved God with all of his heart, he was forgiven by the grace of God. But do not put God to the test.
Do we love God like David? I love God, Jesus and the spirit. But is it enough compared to David who was saved. Others were most likely not forgiven. Also their is an unpardonable sin apparently. So how is it anyone is saved if they willfully sin? Christ came to fulfill the LAW of old. To replace the law. Numbers 15:30 and 31. Says basically, intentional sin is "reviling god". And the unforgivable sin is said to be blaspheming (reviling) the spirit.
Is this not similar? Says Pastor Scott Velain.
Only a fearful wait of fire. Apparently. So it maybe to late for me now?
And the word is the truth/law and endureth forever. The spirit of Truth be a helper to you.the spirit of the law. He guide you to all truth, in you, truth made known to your heart, laws on your hearts and minds. THEN i will remember their sins no more.
This really made me think it's over. According to scripture. Deliberate sin is unpardonable apparently. Explained pastor Scott Velain. If you don't turn and die before turning.
This says to me any sin in weakness after accepting Jesus means were screwed unless we repent (change mind) and stop. A slave to sin, meant unforgiven always, apparently. Depressing.
Do we love God like David? I love God, Jesus and the spirit. But is it enough compared to David who was saved. Others were most likely not forgiven. Also their is an unpardonable sin apparently. So how is it anyone is saved if they willfully sin? Christ came to fulfill the LAW of old. To replace the law. Numbers 15:30 and 31. Says basically, intentional sin is "reviling god". And the unforgivable sin is said to be blaspheming (reviling) the spirit.
Is this not similar? Says Pastor Scott Velain.
Only a fearful wait of fire. Apparently. So it maybe to late for me now?
And the word is the truth/law and endureth forever. The spirit of Truth be a helper to you.the spirit of the law. He guide you to all truth, in you, truth made known to your heart, laws on your hearts and minds. THEN i will remember their sins no more.
This really made me think it's over. According to scripture. Deliberate sin is unpardonable apparently. Explained pastor Scott Velain. If you don't turn and die before turning.
This says to me any sin in weakness after accepting Jesus means were screwed unless we repent (change mind) and stop. A slave to sin, meant unforgiven always, apparently. Depressing.
Oh, pffft. Theres a big difference between knowing that you did wrong, accepting it and making an effort to stop doing it, and begging for mercy and believing that you will be saved because you tried just hard enough.
If you know that wrong is wrong, then you should absolutely avoid doing wrong. Sinning willfully and telling yourself that God will forgive you is totally taking His grace for granted.
I wasnt aware that smoking or having a drink were a sin? : p
And living in sin leads to death, yes. But you have the chance to repent of your sins and come to Him-
If you stumble, and have found that you have done wrong again, acknowledge that you have done so, and continue to try to do the right thing.
He gave His life for your sins. Paul tells us that we do not nullify grace. If you have your heart set on Him, and are willing to repent of the things youve done, and acknowledge that you have done wrong, He is willing to forgive you. Even if you slip up.
And, if you know that something is wrong, avoid doing it : p Youll be tempted, and youll fall at some point. When you do, continue seeking Him and continue doing what is right.
If you know that wrong is wrong, then you should absolutely avoid doing wrong. Sinning willfully and telling yourself that God will forgive you is totally taking His grace for granted.
I wasnt aware that smoking or having a drink were a sin? : p
And living in sin leads to death, yes. But you have the chance to repent of your sins and come to Him-
If you stumble, and have found that you have done wrong again, acknowledge that you have done so, and continue to try to do the right thing.
He gave His life for your sins. Paul tells us that we do not nullify grace. If you have your heart set on Him, and are willing to repent of the things youve done, and acknowledge that you have done wrong, He is willing to forgive you. Even if you slip up.
And, if you know that something is wrong, avoid doing it : p Youll be tempted, and youll fall at some point. When you do, continue seeking Him and continue doing what is right.
If we are talking about addictions then i would say it's not always as easy as simply stopping sometimes we are burdened with thorns that we cannot overcome on our own not that it makes it ok by any means but not everyone has the strength to simply quit. but as for non addictive sins if one just keeps doing them willy nilly and then says i will just ask for forgiveness then that is indeed taking advantage of his grace. a heart that seeks after God would at least feel remorse for the sin but one who continues to do it without any regard of it well.... I doubt his commandments are written on their hearts