Part - 3 Can Jesus Christ Second Return Really Happen at ANY Moment?

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Eccl12and13

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#1
Part - 3 Can Jesus Christ Second Return Really Happen at ANY Moment?


CONCLUSION


Now is it a coincident that the events in Part-2 lasts 3.5 years? Of course not! After all, the reason Jesus tells us to go to the book of Daniel in the first place is for us to know the signs of His second coming. And as we all know, the vision John was having in the book of Rev. was about the events that would take place at the second coming of Christ.


So yes!!! All of the events we have been reading about are all one time events taking place at the same time. The AOD is revealed and set up in the temple in Jerusalem. He will make war with the saints and win. He will speak great words against the most High. He will have full control over, ‘…all kindreds, tongues and nations.’ All of this he will do this for a period of; 1,260 - 1,290 days, or forty and two months, or 3.5 years. During this time God sends (2) witnesses to prophesy and perform miracles. Now that’s strange, in all of our reading we have read nothing of Christ coming BEFORE any of these things happening. What about the gathering of the saints? What about the so called ‘RAPTURE‘?


So I ask you, must these things come to pass in the order God said they would? Well, If you believe the word of God, these events must happen exactly as the scriptures states. They must! Why? Because it is, “…impossible for God to lie…”, Heb 6:18.


Still not convinced? Well let’s read a few more verses that should leave no doubt in your mind that Jesus cannot, make that, WILL NOT, return any sooner than the signs given to us in the scriptures. Let’s continue in the book of Matt.




Now we know Jesus tells us that there will be times of great tribulation;


Matt 24:21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


But look at what he tells us next;


29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


And at which trump will all of these things spoken of take place?


I Cor 15:52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


And what is the number of the last trumpet that will sound, at which time all will be complete?


Rev 8:17. 2. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.


6. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.


Rev 11:15. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.




Please take note of ALL that is being said here, especially when the gathering of the elect takes place. Jesus tells us with His own mouth that it will be, ‘Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days…’, and, ‘…then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven…’ and ‘…gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.’, ’… In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump…’ Need more proof? Let’s go to II Thes;


II Thes 2:1. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,


3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


So here we have Paul, writing to the Thessalonians about the coming of the Lord, warning them not to let any man deceive them by any means. He then goes on to tell them that the day of the Lords coming SHALL NOT COME, until the AOD is revealed. He also let’s us know it will be at that time we are gathered unto him. Let’s read quickly about this gathering of saints!


In the book of Zechariah we are given glimpse of end time events;


Zech 14:1. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.


4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof ..


5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; …and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


And now in the NT;


Acts 1:11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


12. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


Would you not say that this too is a one time event? Just how many one time events can there be? How many times can Jesus return to the mount of Olives? And who will be with Him when He returns? Just how many gatherings of the saints will there be? ONE!!!


Col 3:4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


I Thes 4:14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


So, putting this all into perspective, we have the following;


1. The ‘great tribulation will begin when the AOD comes on the scene and is revealed. Dan 7:25.
2. Jesus CANNOT return before the time of ‘great tribulation’. Matt 24:29.
3. The ‘great tribulation’ or ‘times of trouble’ will last for 3.5 years. Dan 12:7.
4. During the tribulation, God sends His two witnesses to prophesy and perform miracles. Rev 11:3-12.
5. Jesus states himself that He will return, AFTER the great tribulation. Matt 24:30.
6. When Jesus returns, it will be at that time He gathers the saints. Matt 24:31, Zach 14:5 & II Thes 2:1.
7. The gathering of the saints does not happen until the last trumpet sounds. I Cor15:52.
8. The 7th trumpet is the last one. Which means (6) will sound prior to Christ 2nd coming. Rev 11:15
9. When Jesus does return, it will be to the mount of Olives. Zach 14:11 & Acts 1:11-12.


Jesus warns His disciples to, ’…Take heed that no man deceive you.’. Paul warns the Thessalonians, ‘…Let no man deceive you by any means‘. My question to you is, have you been deceived? Is it really possible for Christ to come back at a moments notice? Tomorrow? Today? In this very second? Can it happen without any warnings or signs what so ever? And how about the ‘rapture’ of the saints happening BEFORE the ‘time of trouble’ and ‘great tribulation‘? Is this still your belief? Is this the doctrine we just learned about in the scriptures? Well, if you do not know the answer to these questions by now, I guess what the scriptures says is true; for some, Jesus will come as a thief in the night.


I Thes 5:2. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


Rev 3:3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. IF THEREFORE THOU SHALT NOT WATCH, I WILL COME ON THEE AS A THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


Now let’s read what the scriptures has to say for those that did what Jesus said, ‘…whoso readeth, let him understand), let’s read about the children of light;




I Thes 5:4. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


6. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.




God tells us if we watch and pray, Jesus second coming will NOT overtake us as a thief in the night!


So, will you heed the warnings of Christ and Paul and not let any man deceive you by any means? Will you be a child of the light? One that watches, reads and understands, so that day does not overtake you as a thief. Do you know the signs of the second coming of Christ? If you do, answer me this;




Jesus Christ second coming; Can it really happen at ANY moment?






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Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#2
PASS !!!!!!!!!
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#4


hey wait for me
 
T

Trax

Guest
#5
I read the 3 parts and you make the same mistake so many make. They interpret
end time events with a Gentile mindset. The nation of Israel gets mentally substituted
with The Church. The Elect and Saints gets mentally replaced with Christians.
The end time events are dealing with Jews and the nation of Israel.

By the definitions used by people who don't believe in the rapture, to define
"2nd coming", then Jesus birth was a 2nd coming. The sending of the Holy Spirit
was a 3rd coming. The rapture isn't a return process. Jesus didn't enter the
tomb to raise Lazarus. He stood outside and called him. The saved have the Holy
Spirit in them. God IS inside the believer. Do you grasp that concept? An issue is made
about Jesus 2nd coming, when the Spirit of God has been sent into the believer.
Jesus promised He would never leave nor forsake His own. If I have Jesus with me now,
why is there a hang up on a 2nd coming? The 2nd coming deals with the nation of Israel
and the Jews. The rapture is getting the church out.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations,
and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed
with white robes, and palms in their hands;

That verse IS the rapture. This is gentiles along with believing Jews, that had accepted Jesus.
This is NOT people saved during that last 7 years. The door for Gentiles getting saved during that
last 7 years is shut, for that time. God has had enough and now dishing out His wrath. When God
reaches that point, of dealing out wrath and judgement, the time to receive mercy and forgiveness
has past and it wont be open until He is finished. His wrath is being poured out on the Gentiles,
not the Jews.

No one will ever get end time events right, if they constantly put the wrong group of people
where they don't belong.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#6
No, the Second Coming of Christ is not imminent but the rapture is. They are two separate events.

Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#7
I read the 3 parts and you make the same mistake so many make. They interpret
end time events with a Gentile mindset. The nation of Israel gets mentally substituted
with The Church. The Elect and Saints gets mentally replaced with Christians.
The end time events are dealing with Jews and the nation of Israel.

By the definitions used by people who don't believe in the rapture, to define
"2nd coming", then Jesus birth was a 2nd coming. The sending of the Holy Spirit
was a 3rd coming. The rapture isn't a return process. Jesus didn't enter the
tomb to raise Lazarus. He stood outside and called him. The saved have the Holy
Spirit in them. God IS inside the believer. Do you grasp that concept? An issue is made
about Jesus 2nd coming, when the Spirit of God has been sent into the believer.
Jesus promised He would never leave nor forsake His own. If I have Jesus with me now,
why is there a hang up on a 2nd coming? The 2nd coming deals with the nation of Israel
and the Jews. The rapture is getting the church out.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations,
and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed
with white robes, and palms in their hands;


That verse IS the rapture. This is gentiles along with believing Jews, that had accepted Jesus.
This is NOT people saved during that last 7 years. The door for Gentiles getting saved during that
last 7 years is shut, for that time. God has had enough and now dishing out His wrath. When God
reaches that point, of dealing out wrath and judgement, the time to receive mercy and forgiveness
has past and it wont be open until He is finished. His wrath is being poured out on the Gentiles,
not the Jews.

No one will ever get end time events right, if they constantly put the wrong group of people
where they don't belong.
Nothing about Jesus coming in that verse No rapture No rising No resurrection NOTHING

No rising of the dead

No rising of the living

No angels doing any reaping

No trumpet sounding

No last trumpet sounding

No Jesus coming in the clouds

No event

No happing before the tribulation whatsoever


 
G

GRA

Guest
#8
That verse IS the rapture. ... This is NOT people saved during that last 7 years.
If you believe that the "great tribulation" is contained within this "last 7 years" - how do you reconcile your statement with the following?:

[SUP]9[/SUP]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; [SUP]10[/SUP]And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. [SUP]11[/SUP]And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, [SUP]12[/SUP]Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. [SUP]13[/SUP]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? [SUP]14[/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. - Revelation 7:9-14

:)

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Eccl12and13

Guest
#9
I pray this post did and will continue to give wisdom and understanding concerning the second coming of Christ according to God's word.

I am fully aware that there are some, maybe even many, that do not agree with what was posted. To those I pray God will give knowledge and understanding.

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Oct 28, 2012
104
0
0
#10
the Book of Revelation is written as thus...

BOOK OF REVELATION...

CHAPTERS 1...
is the revealing of my LORD JESUS CHRIST to the world and who he truly is. also that my LORD JESUS CHRIST is revealing the end time events and who, what, where, how, and why it ALL needs to happen.

CHAPTER 2-3...
my LORD JESUS CHRIST begins and ends his message through each of the 7 Church Ages by using the 7 Messengers for each Church Age individually... one church age/one messenger... ( the messenger being a MAN chosen by GOD for that specific Church Age )*

CHAPTER 4...
MEETING our*LORD JESUS CHRIST in the clouds which is the RAPTURING of the BRIDE and then the rest of the Church Body goes through the Great Tribulation as shown in Revelation 7:9-17 *

CHAPTER 5-19...
deals with ISRAEL ( JEWS ONLY )... which is a time period of 3.5 years

CHAPTER 20-22...*
deals with the SECOND COMING*of my LORD JESUS CHRIST*with his BRIDE and the setting up of*the Millennium Reign... and then Armageddon... then The Great White Throne... THEN THE NEW EARTH AND NEW HEAVENS HERE ON EARTH... AMEN...
 
T

Trax

Guest
#11
If you believe that the "great tribulation" is contained within this "last 7 years" - how do you reconcile your statement with the following?:

.

This is what I said about putting the wrong people where they don't belong. The great tribulation started when the
church started. This is why people get it all wrong. They refer to the last 7 years as "The Great Tribulation."
This puts the church there and leaves no room for the nation of Israel. Now focus on this. I know its simple,
VERY SIMPLE, yet, for some reason, Christians refuse to see it. It isn't that they can't grasp it. Its that they
refuse to put the pieces in their proper place. And when the simple truth is shown to them, PRIDE acts like a
steel wall.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which
must shortly come to pass;
and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now this is the reason Rev. was written. You still with me on this? The next step is where everyone runs off
the road and hits a tree. They put "the church" in place where "His servants" are, and from then on are completely
off the path.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

See that? Rev. even tells you who these servants are. They are 144,000 Jews, from 12 tribes. This is NOT the
church, as the term is used today. The "church" has been raptured. From the moment it starts, its all about
the nation of Israel and Jews. Rev spells it out. It is SIMPLE. Why people want to put the word "Gentile" in Rev 7:4
is because they keep using wrong terms, putting people where they don't belong.

So, where is the church? Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,
of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed
with white robes, and palms in their hands;
NOW you can put the word Gentile in, where it states "of all nations." But no, here again, people want
to put the WRONG people in the wrong place. They want to say, "this are people getting saved, during the
last 7 years." They see "great tribulation" in Rev 7:14 and run off the road and hit another tree.
We in the "great trib" *NOW*. Rev 7:9 shows where the church is. Its been raptured.

If there is no rapture, this verse is left hanging with no place to fit. 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed
us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Here again, people plow into another tree. They want to say God will put us in a place of safety.
This is putting the wrong people in the wrong place again. This safe place is for the Jews.
God is going to have to put the church somewhere and that "safe place" is reserved for Jews,
not the church. For the church, their work is over. God has shut the door of getting saved,
for the Gentiles, for 7 years. He has sealed 144,000 Jews to go to the nation of Israel.
The church's work is DONE. The Gospel will be preached to the whole world, and then the end
will come. Rev 7:9 it states "of all nations." Mission accomplished church! And the end has started.
The church is raptured out.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#12
This is my effort. It is quite short.

CLICK HERE
 
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nathan3

Guest
#13
Thinking that Christ will return at any moment disregards scripture, about the chronological order of events, Christ taught must happen before, there is any gathering back to Christ. One of those warnings was a false Christ. If you held onto the belief that:
At any moment Christ would return to rapture you away, then you would fall to the first person/entity performing supernatural miracles claiming to be God.( 2nd Thess 2; Mark 13:22) Because that was Christ warning. That is why , a " any-moment doctrine" is so dangerous ... It go's against Christ teachings in Mark 13. And in Revelation. etc
 
G

GRA

Guest
#14
Trax:

Do you believe that "the time of the rapture" => 'last trump' => 'seventh trumpet' ( Revelation 11:15 ) ...?

.
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#15
Eccl12and13
You got that right!
Jesus says the gathering is on the LAST day when the LAST trumpet sounds. Paul says the same thing.
[h=3]2 Peter 3:10[/h] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
This don't sound like no secret coming. Back in the days when Jesus and the apostles ministered, thieves came storming into homes in the middle of the night. This caused great commotion, as the thieve ransacked the home and disappeared into the dark.
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#16
Whether we are pre. mid. or post trib. believers, should we not set in store previsions for this time to come.
If a person believes the mid trib it will be nice to have what is needed for that period.
If a person believes the pre trib, and knows there will be people saved during the tribulation (the elect), wouldn't the Christian thing to do, be to leave provisions for these elect.
And, sense the Bible clearly tells us, there will be no gathering until the last day (after the tribulation), is it not a good Idea to prepare for that time.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#17
Whether we are pre. mid. or post trib. believers, should we not set in store previsions for this time to come.
If a person believes the mid trib it will be nice to have what is needed for that period.
If a person believes the pre trib, and knows there will be people saved during the tribulation (the elect), wouldn't the Christian thing to do, be to leave provisions for these elect.
And, sense the Bible clearly tells us, there will be no gathering until the last day (after the tribulation), is it not a good Idea to prepare for that time.
What provisions are we to make and how can we prepare?
 
T

Trax

Guest
#19
Trax:

Do you believe that "the time of the rapture" => 'last trump' => 'seventh trumpet' ( Revelation 11:15 ) ...?

.
You'll need to define "your" idea of trumpet. People like to think every trumpet mentioned in the
Bible is the trumpets in Rev.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#20
Trax:

Do you believe that "the time of the rapture" => 'last trump' => 'seventh trumpet' ( Revelation 11:15 ) ...?

.
Let me ask you a question. To set it up. I'm in your house. I say I'm leaving and will be back shortly.
I get in my car and drive around the block 20 times, I pass in front of your house 20 times.
Then I drive up and walk in your house. How many times did I return? Once or 21 times.
The distance, from my car and your house is irrelevant. Whether I passed by 20 feet from your house
or 200 miles, I didn't return, until I walked back into your house. But you want to classify
the rapture as a 2nd coming? Well, I returned and walked back into your house 21 times, by your
definition of "return". It isn't that you can't grasp the Bible. The issue is the terms used and putting
the pieces in the correct place.