Paul exposes false application of the law

  • Thread starter eternally-gratefull
  • Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So God's first plan failed and He had to make it easier for the rest of us weaklings to get into heaven?

Hebrews 11 is clear we have always been saved by faith my dear friend even in the OT.

God bless
Gods first plan was grace

God killed the animal and covered the sin of Adam and Eve

Animal sacrifice was accepted by God through Abel, Human good was rejected by God through cain.

Abraham believed God and it was accounted as righteousness.

Thge law was given to convict us, Not show us how to live righteous life. As scripture says, if a law could be given that could give life, God would have given it, And Christ could have been spared. But the law was given to determine ALL Under sin so every mouth may be shut. Because all have sinned and fall short of the standard demanded by God.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
Excuse me my friend, Can you show me where I ever said any different? Where in my post did it seem you thought I said we were ever saved by anything other than grace?


My apology ET, from my point of view the law was never given to us or anybody for salvation. If you agree with that we are in agreement :)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
Do you think it is possible that the law is now redundant and we do not have to take heed of what is written in the law Grandpa?
It depends on if it has done its job and brought you to Christ.

If you think that you can look to the law and obey it by your own strength and understanding then it has not done its job.

1 Timothy 1:5-10
[FONT=&quot]5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;[/FONT]
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
The law was given to convict us, Not show us how to live righteous life. As scripture says, if a law could be given that could give life, God would have given it, And Christ could have been spared. But the law was given to determine ALL Under sin so every mouth may be shut. Because all have sinned and fall short of the standard demanded by God.
The law is a reflection of God's character and was the marriage proposal for Israel. We have to lead set apart lives to be God's bride friend.

Will we fail? Of course Brother but that is why we need grace since day 1.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
It depends on if it has done its job and brought you to Christ.

If you think that you can look to the law and obey it by your own strength and understanding then it has not done its job.
I will ask you this again, so we do not need the scriptures in the OT then?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
My apology ET, from my point of view the law was never given to us or anybody for salvation. If you agree with that we are in agreement :)
Its all good bro..

I agree. And will add, it was never given for christian growth either. It was given for one purpose and one purpose only. At least that is what I see the Bible say.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The law is a reflection of God's character and was the marriage proposal for Israel. We have to lead set apart lives to be God's bride friend.

Will we fail? Of course Brother but that is why we need grace since day 1.
Yes, And moses said they had to obey every word or they would be under a curse. (In other words they had to be perfect)

God gave it to show mankind we can not live up to Gods standard, And because of this, the law also showed how atonement must be made, By blood of the innocent.

Christ fulfilled the law not only in deed, but in the sacrifice.

Thats why Paul said the purpose of the law was to keep man in check, to shut every mouth, to make everyone know they are guilty, This wat they would not be so puffed up and think they are ok, but be lead to the redeemer when he came.

After the law has fulfilled its purpose. It has not benefit, because it can not show us how to be righteous people. It was never intended for that purpose.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I will ask you this again, so we do not need the scriptures in the OT then?

Yes we need them, so we can see how foolish it is to try to obey laws, and think your right with God, how foolish it is to think your better (jews) than other people (gentiles) to see gods mercy and grace in action, as God was patient for years and years in spite of israles rebellion. And how he was slow to anger and all the things he wants us to be.

and we can see how people obeyed the law. It was not self righteous following the letter. It was the spirit of love, from people who knew God loved them, because they had been properly trained what the law really did (condemn them)
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
I will ask you this again, so we do not need the scriptures in the OT then?
Sorry Grandpa, we are busy with series regarding the difference between the devil's chest plate and the Christian's chest plate and why there are 9 stones in the devil's and 12 stones in the Christian's plate.

We are basically being taught out of the OT and we do look at the NT but we basically look at the Bible in its entirety. I was building up to something but I feel that we should discuss it on a different day.

God bless Brother.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
Yes we need them, so we can see how foolish it is to try to obey laws, and think your right with God, how foolish it is to think your better (jews) than other people (gentiles) to see gods mercy and grace in action, as God was patient for years and years in spite of israles rebellion. And how he was slow to anger and all the things he wants us to be.

and we can see how people obeyed the law. It was not self righteous following the letter. It was the spirit of love, from people who knew God loved them, because they had been properly trained what the law really did (condemn them)
You know what I just realise now? How little people followed God's teachings in the OT. We have to be reminded that the Bible teach us that we have a narrow way to God's throne.

Thank you friend for your time, I am leaving for home now.

God bless
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
so can you answer or not?

What was the requirement of obedience of the law as stated by Moses and confirmed by paul.

You keep ignoring the question.


Is it because you really do not know? (Just say so) or is it because you know. But you also know in saying so it will reflect something you do not want to hear?
More deflection. I ask you questions you ignore them, then expect everyone else to snap to it when you make a command.

But because I Love the Word, I will let you change the subject and save face, and will answer your question.

Deut. 27:14 And the Levites shall speak, and say unto all the men of Israel with a loud voice,15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.

18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.

20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.

21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.

22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.

24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.

25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.

26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is the scripture Paul quoted in Gal. 3.

Gal. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

And why was Abraham blessed? How was Abraham's Faith made manifest?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So Abraham was blessed because he obeyed God's Laws. But wait, there was a law "ADDED" to this law according to Paul in Gal. 3:19. What was this "ADDED" law?

It was the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for the remi8ssion of sins that was to be in place "Till the Seed should come".

Abraham had God's Commandments and Laws, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for justification of sins. Levi wasn't even born yet.

Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But Abraham was not under the "Works of the Levitical Priesthood for remission of sins, he was justified by faith shown by his obedience as it is written.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

No man was cleansed by the blood of goats for remission of sins as the Law and the Prophets clearly show through Abraham.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

This is not the "LAW" Abraham was blessed for keeping, it was the "Works of the Law" for cleansing. And once you are "under" this law, you must continue in them. Why?

Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Not the "law" Abraham kept, but the "added" Levitical Priesthood.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

If a man depends on the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, he is cursed to perform these sacrifices for the rest of his life. And even then, unless he understands it is Christ's blood symbolized by the "works of the Law" for remission of sins, it would be in vain. And since Christ has come, to continue in these "cleansing laws" would be to reject the sacrifice of Christ.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Apart from the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins as Paul explains.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The Scriptures teach that Abraham was blessed because he trusted(had faith) in God and was obedient to God's Laws.


17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial, "Works of the Law" for remission of sins did not make Abrahams faith and obedience and the promise that followed void.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Because if salvation was because of the sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, then Abraham's faith and obedience meant nothing. But God gave Abraham the promise "apart from the law" of justification "ADDED" 430 years later.

So then the question is, why even "ADD" another law if Abraham was blessed for keeping the one already in place?

19 Wherefore then serveth the law(Levitical Priesthood Abraham did not have)? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

So is the Levitical Priesthood against the promises God gave Abraham because he was faithful? No. If there was a law that could give life and remove sins, then righteousness would be by this law. But we know man is not justified by the blood of goats and bulls.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Paul explains we were kept under this "shadow" of Christ's sacrifice until He came, as Paul just said, and His sacrifice was made manifest once and for all.

24 Wherefore the law (Levitical Priesthood sacrifices that was a shadow of Christ's sacrifice) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Christ has come, He is our High Priest. No more Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, Jesus cleansed them with His blood once and for all.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Many claim to be Abraham Children but Jesus qualified who these really are.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

I wrote this for those who are more interested in the Bible than defending Mainstream Traditions.

So I have answered your questions. Now we will see if you are respectful enough to go back and answer those questions I asked you.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
The law is a reflection of God's character and was the marriage proposal for Israel. We have to lead set apart lives to be God's bride friend.

Will we fail? Of course Brother but that is why we need grace since day 1.
The law is a reflection of the trespasses of Israel against God and His Grace.

That is why it was placed inside the Ark and blood was sprinkled on top and an intercessor was required.

The fruit of the Spirit is the reflection of Gods Character and the Work of Christ is His marriage proposal to the World.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
=Grandpa;3348071]Matthew 23:1-2
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:


The pharisees were trying to obey Gods Law. They sat in Moses seat and had his authority.
As is your custom you omit scriptures that you cant use to support man made doctrines. The scribes and Pharisees read from scriptures. This we are to observe and do. But don't do as they do, because they say and do not do.

Why do you ignore all that Jesus said about these mainstream preachers? Even this scripture you twist says the Pharisees didn't obey God. They said to obey, but they didn't.

What benefit is there for anyone on the forum to continue in a conversation where you start our with preaching a deception.

The Jewish people and the Pharisees are in the bible precisely to show that they failed. To show humanity that they couldn't please God by their own work at His Law.
You have zero Biblical evidence to support this preaching.

Romans 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


They refused the sacrifice of Jesus and were still preaching the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins, instead of recognizing Jesus as the Messiah and accepting His Blood in Faith. They stumbled at Jesus and were still relying on the "works of the Levitical Priesthood for remission of sins.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
But with Faith we can please Him, Yes. And we are to have the faith of Abraham, Yes?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

How you guys can preach that faith and obedience are opposite is fascinating to me. How you can read the Bible and conclude the Pharisees were trying to Obey God is fascinating.

You have zero scriptural evidence of this preaching, and when I point this out you double down on your doctrines and traditions.


Your whole premise is that the Pharisees were working at the law wrong. All they had to do was work at the law according to YOUR understanding and they would have been righteous before God. But that is the mistake of EVERYONE who works at the law. They think they have understanding of it.
Again, you are wrong. I believe the Bible and ALL it's Words are worthy to build doctrine. The Pharisees created their own righteousness, their own traditions and their own commandments. That is what Jesus clearly said. Jesus, Zechariah and Abraham did not do these things. They were considered righteous because they trusted God's instruction, they didn't do as the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time and create their own instruction.

This is why I stay away fro Mainstream Christianity. They claim God and their God, yet the reject His instruction and create their own. You can't deny this truth honestly.

Those who truly understand what the Law says know they can't do it in their own understanding and strength. They know they must have help from God to obey His Spiritual Law.
That is why Jesus sends a helper. To help us repent and bring works worthy of repentance. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Isaiah 55:8-9


8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You're going to critique the understanding of the Pharisees but then make the same error as they do by bringing Gods Law down to a carnal understanding with a carnal fulfillment.


The Pharisees reject God's Laws and created their own.

How can I listen to you when you preach the falsehood that the Pharisees were trying to obey God's Laws. That is a blatant lie GP, and one that can easily be exposed by literally dozens of scriptures. Where in the OT did anyone say the preachers were trying to obey God. Where does Jesus say they were trying to obey God? It isn't any where but your and mainstream doctrine. This preaching doesn't exist in the Bible. And I challenge you to find it.

Paul was a Pharisee and he said that he followed the law perfectly in a carnal way, according to the flesh.
He followed the law of the Pharisee, not the Laws of God. Jesus made it very clear that the Pharisees were not following God's Commandments. Show me where Jesus said even once that the Pharisees were obeying God.

I'll wait for the scriptures.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
More deflection. I ask you questions you ignore them, then expect everyone else to snap to it when you make a command.

But because I Love the Word, I will let you change the subject and save face, and will answer your question.

Deut. 27:14 And the Levites shall speak, and say unto all the men of Israel with a loud voice,15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.

18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.

20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.

21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.

22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.

24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.

25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.

26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is the scripture Paul quoted in Gal. 3.

Gal. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

And why was Abraham blessed? How was Abraham's Faith made manifest?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So Abraham was blessed because he obeyed God's Laws. But wait, there was a law "ADDED" to this law according to Paul in Gal. 3:19. What was this "ADDED" law?

It was the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for the remi8ssion of sins that was to be in place "Till the Seed should come".

Abraham had God's Commandments and Laws, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for justification of sins. Levi wasn't even born yet.

Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But Abraham was not under the "Works of the Levitical Priesthood for remission of sins, he was justified by faith shown by his obedience as it is written.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

No man was cleansed by the blood of goats for remission of sins as the Law and the Prophets clearly show through Abraham.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

This is not the "LAW" Abraham was blessed for keeping, it was the "Works of the Law" for cleansing. And once you are "under" this law, you must continue in them. Why?

Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Not the "law" Abraham kept, but the "added" Levitical Priesthood.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

If a man depends on the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, he is cursed to perform these sacrifices for the rest of his life. And even then, unless he understands it is Christ's blood symbolized by the "works of the Law" for remission of sins, it would be in vain. And since Christ has come, to continue in these "cleansing laws" would be to reject the sacrifice of Christ.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Apart from the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins as Paul explains.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The Scriptures teach that Abraham was blessed because he trusted(had faith) in God and was obedient to God's Laws.


17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial, "Works of the Law" for remission of sins did not make Abrahams faith and obedience and the promise that followed void.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Because if salvation was because of the sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, then Abraham's faith and obedience meant nothing. But God gave Abraham the promise "apart from the law" of justification "ADDED" 430 years later.

So then the question is, why even "ADD" another law if Abraham was blessed for keeping the one already in place?

19 Wherefore then serveth the law(Levitical Priesthood Abraham did not have)? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

So is the Levitical Priesthood against the promises God gave Abraham because he was faithful? No. If there was a law that could give life and remove sins, then righteousness would be by this law. But we know man is not justified by the blood of goats and bulls.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Paul explains we were kept under this "shadow" of Christ's sacrifice until He came, as Paul just said, and His sacrifice was made manifest once and for all.

24 Wherefore the law (Levitical Priesthood sacrifices that was a shadow of Christ's sacrifice) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Christ has come, He is our High Priest. No more Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, Jesus cleansed them with His blood once and for all.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Many claim to be Abraham Children but Jesus qualified who these really are.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

I wrote this for those who are more interested in the Bible than defending Mainstream Traditions.

So I have answered your questions. Now we will see if you are respectful enough to go back and answer those questions I asked you.

Oh boy, You got it all wrong

As moses said, cursed is everyone who does not confirm and obey every word written.

Abraham failed to do this. As has all men. Thus all men are under a curse.

Sacrifice was added to show how the sin issue would be taken care of. And it was not added to the law.. Animal sacrifice was instituted by God all the way back in Adams day, Even abraham gave sacrifice to god.

King david was under law. And what did King david say about the law and his sin? Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire. As hebrews said, the blood of bulls and goat never took away sin, They were a tutor, as was ALL the law. To lead us to christ.



Gal 3: [FONT=&quot]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [/FONT]20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.[FONT=&quot]21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

so what is the purpose of the law?

To charge ALL UNDER SIN

To enable the promise of salvation by faith to those who trust God

It wears added, BECAUSE WE SINNED.

If you think you wearing salvation because your obey the law. Good luck man, All the power to you.


[/FONT]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Oh boy, You got it all wrong

As moses said, cursed is everyone who does not confirm and obey every word written.

Abraham failed to do this. As has all men. Thus all men are under a curse.

Sacrifice was added to show how the sin issue would be taken care of. And it was not added to the law.. Animal sacrifice was instituted by God all the way back in Adams day, Even abraham gave sacrifice to god.

King david was under law. And what did King david say about the law and his sin? Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire. As hebrews said, the blood of bulls and goat never took away sin, They were a tutor, as was ALL the law. To lead us to christ.



Gal 3: What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

so what is the purpose of the law?

To charge ALL UNDER SIN

To enable the promise of salvation by faith to those who trust God

It wears added, BECAUSE WE SINNED.

If you think you wearing salvation because your obey the law. Good luck man, All the power to you.
Ya, that's just what I thought. You don't want to answer any questions I ask.

It's just as well.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ya, that's just what I thought. You don't want to answer any questions I ask.

It's just as well.
I have answered many questions..

Keep trying.

Maybe ask the question by itself. Maybe i missed one
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,743
1,728
113
I will ask you this again, so we do not need the scriptures in the OT then?
Some look at It this way:The same GOD that spoke In the Old covenant Is the same GOD that spoke In the New covenant and since GOD does not change then we should try to keep the law and receive grace also.

But then If you think about It,why would JESUS come to earth If we could keep the law?

That’s why I came to the conclusion that legalistics minds think that as long as they TRY to keep the law that GOD will have more respect for them than those who did not work because at least they tried.
Sigh...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
Some look at It this way:The same GOD that spoke In the Old covenant Is the same GOD that spoke In the New covenant and since GOD does not change then we should try to keep the law and receive grace also.

But then If you think about It,why would JESUS come to earth If we could keep the law?

That’s why I came to the conclusion that legalistics minds think that as long as they TRY to keep the law that GOD will have more respect for them than those who did not work because at least they tried.
Sigh...

You leave out One very important thing.. The Holy Spirit Baptism... GOD stated He would......wait for it.. write His Law in our heart and put them on our mind... how does He do this?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
I have answered many questions..

Keep trying.

Maybe ask the question by itself. Maybe i missed one
That’s OK EG,

Not sure there is any reason to continue with someone who suggests Abraham had the Levitical Priesthood, that preaches the Pharisees were working to keep God’s Commandments and that preaches God’s Laws are not created for Christian’s.

We just see God’s Word differently, and as such are destined to disagree. Thanks for the discussion, it was enlightening to be sure.