People in Christ never really die. Surely, they only 'sleep in Jesus.' :-)

GreenNnice · Oct 2, 2013

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

It's important to keep the big picture in mind

What exactly does it mean when Paul says, 'God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.'

God<-->Him<-->Jesus . What does this mean? I mean, IF when you die and you believe in Him, does sleeping in Jesus mean we are going to be alive in our minds, or, asleep in our minds. And, is this 'sleep' something different than we can believe because we are sleeping in the arms of an Angel

nathan3 · Oct 2, 2013

You've brought this up more times then I can count GreenN. I figured by now you'd have gone over all the scriptures for this and come to conclusion about this . ( But It's always good to review ). But you really should have looked up all the notes given throughout your other Threads.

Sleep is a figure of speech that means to die. When a person dies, they return to God in heaven instantly. That is whats written. It's used throughout the old and new testaments . So the use of the word sleep is a euphemism . or nicer way to say some one died.

Paul said, don't be ignorant about them that have died, that you don't worry or be sad, because they are with God. That is how He brings them back here with Him at Christ return at the last trump. We need to be able to follow a subject in order to allow this to flow & be understood.

nathan3 · Oct 2, 2013

Some examples of how this is used :

1 Kings 2: 10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

11 And the days that David reigned over Israel were forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.

Sleep here means to die. The word its self just means to lie down. So the meaning is useless to some one who dose not recognize a figure of speech when they read it.

This is used also :

Deuteronomy 32 :

[16] And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
[17] Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day. Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
[18] And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

He says to Moses, after you die, this is whats going to happen .
The book of Judges shows how many times the 12 Tribes of Israel fell into idolatry. When Solomon died the nation split into two houses and both of those nations fell into sin & God scattered scattered the house of Israel, and brought the house of Judah into captivity in Babylon...

This is the first time recorded in the Bible of sleep being used as a beautiful euphemism ( Ap. 6 ) for death .

It is used for good people, and evil people : of Ahab as well as David; of all the Kings, even Jehoiakim, who had no burial. See II Sam. 7:12 I Kings 1: 21 ; 2:10 ; 11:21, 43 ; 14:20, 31 ; 15:8 ,24; 16:6, 28 ; 22:40, 50 ; II Kings 8:24; 10:35; 13:9,13 ; 14:16, 22, 29; 15:7, 22, 38; 16:20 ; 20:21 ; 21:18 ; 24:6 ; II Chronicles 9:31 ; 12:16 ;14:1 ; 16:13 ; 21:1 ; 26:2, 23 ; 27:9 ; 28:27 ; 32:33 ; 33:20..

go a whoring. The constant idiom for idolatry. etc. ( The Companion Bible E. W. Bullinger page 281 note Deut 31:16 )

A Eu'-phem-is'-mos; or Euphemy ( Gen 15:15 ). Where a pleasing expression is used for one that is unpleasant .

It is most important to notice these. It is absolutely necessary for true interpretation. God's Word is made up of "words which the Holy Spirit teacheth" (1Corinthians 2:13. 1Thessalonians 2:13. 2Timothy 3:16. 2Peter 1:21, etc.).

A "Figure of speech" relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is thus said. A Figure of speech is a designed and legitimate departure from the laws of language, in order to emphasise what is said. Hence in such Figures we have the Holy Spirit's own marking, so to speak, of His own words.

This peculiar form or unusal manner may not be true, or so true, to the literal meaning of the words; but it is more true to their real sense, and truer to the truth.

Figures are never used but for the sake of emphasis. They can never, therefore, be ignored. Ingnorance of Figures of speech has led to the grossest errors, which have been caused either from taking literally what is figurative, or from taking figuratively what is literal.

The Greeks and Romans named some hundreds of such figures. The only work on Biblical Figures of speech in the English language is by Dr. Bullinger 1, from which we have taken the whole of information given here as well as in the marginal notes. He has classified some 217 seperate figures (some of them with many varieties or subdivisions), and has given over 8,000 illustrations.

nathan3 · Oct 2, 2013

A NT example of this you can read of in :

John 11:

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

Verse 14.- Then said Jesus; lit. Then therefore Jesus said. Plainly. See ( John 10:24 Plainly -same Greek word as "Openly", - John 18:20 ) ( Companion Bible notes )

14. is dead = died .

( This is the same exact way Paul used the word sleep in II Thess 4: 13- end )

We should all know what when some one says, some one has died.

dead :
apothnēskō

ap-oth-nace'-ko

From G575 and G2348 ; to die off (literally or figuratively): - be {dead} {death} {die} lie {a-dying} be slain (X with).

The Bible is clear, what happens when some one dies. If your a Christian, this is one of the basic things you should Know. If you believe Christ died & rose from the dead, resurrected; THEN you as a Christian, also, must believe, that when a person dies, they rise also.
These are the teachings of Christ. For a Christian not to believe that there is a resurrection after death, just as Ecclesiastes 12:7 states and 1 Peter 1:3 , John , Paul - I Cor 15:12 ; I Thess 4:13-14.

If you still can't understand the use of Sleep as a euphemism; then I would pray to God about it.

nathan3 · Oct 2, 2013

Please take the time to read these notes. So that you can see that those passages are Not talking about sleeping. But In reality are talking about some one that has simply died. And actually familiarize yourself with The Bibles teachings about what happens to some one when they pass away. They are not asleep . That much is apparent from the notes below and what the Bible teaches as a whole .

GreenNnice · Oct 3, 2013

"The spirit returns to God," yet, our body "sleeps in Jesus." Scripure does not lie, we sleep IN Jesus. Does this sound like....

...when Paul says, 'To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.'

Jacob wrestled with an Angel, who was God.
Daniel in the lion's den was preserved, thanks to an Angel shutting up the lion's mouth.

When our spirit returns to God, per Ecclesiastes 12, what does this mean ?

When we are to love the Lord with our mind, soul, heart, strength, the part about loving God with our 'soul' is our 'spirit.'

We are to, therefore, Love God with this 'part' of us. Does this make sense? This is not a 'breath' part or a non-tangible part, but a very real and tangible part. Or, else what? Jesus would not have replied to Love Him with all our.....

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Our mind gives us head knowledge, which we keep inside our brain, but our HEART is what accepts Christ. OH, I know, Scripture never says 'accept Christ with your heart!' But you do, don't you

Sure, it's THE HEART that Christ makes change from stone to flesh, as Ezekiel says. We become a living soul when God gives us OUR 'heart,' and, keep in mind, some might confuse this with the organ that beats life in us. Noooooo. That's not it. It's more than that, think of a different 'beat' inside of us, and, using your OWN mind won't get you to understand either. YOU must use 'the mind of Christ.'

We don't have the mind of God, His thoughts are not ours, His ways are not ours, way beyond us, right

But, God says, through His inspiration writings of apostle Paul, 'But we have THE MIND OF CHRIST.'

THIS spiritualizes OUR whole being, our spirit at ONE with His Spirit and ONCE we die we SLEEP in Jesus, we are with Him and, like is said in the opening post, you are WITHIN the arms of an Angel, who is Christ Jesus our Lord

Is this making any sense

Nate's got it. Perhaps, too, I was playing a little Devil's Advocate for those who want to THINK we are dead in the ground asleep and UNAWARE of anything with our 'minds of Christ.' This is just not so. ONcE we HAVE accepted Christ, the VEIL has been raised, the CURSE was broken by 'the cross.' WE SLEEP NO MORE in the dictionary definition of sleep and what we ALL DO nightly on planet Earth for 7-10 hours a day. LIFE will be different when we die, we do NOT just sleep, we SLEEP in Jesus. It's a beautiful thing, really, God gave us all so much inside our heads for HOPE once we die, and, that hope is in being with Him the moment we die.

So, IF we, which is our spirits, are absent from the body the MOMENT we die, what is that telling you when we are then present with the Lord? Don't OVERthink it. The answer is sooooooo simple. WE ARE WITH JESUS, 'sleeping.' We are NOT 'dead in Jesus,' we are 'sleeping' and 'sleeeping' in this case means being with the Lord, just like sleeping in today's terms means eyes closed, NOT dead.

nathan3 · Oct 3, 2013

GreenNnice said:

No.... But its okay man. I'll just start my own thread next time. And Don't get the impression that im here to argue, I want to just present some facts and scriptures to help people out .That's my intention, not to attack some ones view. I really don't think we should talk as much. Instead we can discuss the scriptures and let that do the talking; that's what I tried to do with my post. If done right, the scriptures will do the judging for us. If some one does not aline with whats written there. That should be apparent to any intelligent person . If not, then maybe with sincere prayer and study of the Bible.

jb · Oct 3, 2013

You can find a bit of a study on death and eternal judgement Here...

Yahweh Shalom...

directline2iam · Oct 3, 2013

jb said:

Hey thanks jb, it appears to be a good read and a long one so I downloaded it to my other puter for later.

posthuman · Oct 3, 2013

Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

this affirms that man dies, & at the same time presupposes that death is not with such finality that the Lord of Life does not have power to raise us up again, for judgment, glory or damnation.

that there is an after this substantiates the euphemism of sleep.

john832 · Oct 3, 2013

GreenNnice said:

Sleep is simply a euphemistic term for death...

Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

God looks at death much differently than we do. He has the power to give life to the dead, we can do no such thing. This is why death is our enemy...

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Are we conscious at death?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Why don't the dead praise God? They can't, they are unconscious...

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

GreenNnice · Oct 3, 2013

john832 said:

Sleep is simply a euphemistic term for death...

Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

God looks at death much differently than we do. He has the power to give life to the dead, we can do no such thing. This is why death is our enemy...

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Are we conscious at death?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Why don't the dead praise God? They can't, they are unconscious...

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

john832 said:

Yes.

"....in Jesus."
----------
And, not sure what doesn't make sense, nate ?

AND, THAT'S OK

He who is YOU will reveal ALL truth

The Spirit of OUR Holy God in us shows us ALL of Him, in His 'due time.'

GreenNnice · Oct 4, 2013

People who die sleep in the arms of THE Angel

Again, remember, the Angel that wrestled with Isaac was none other than the Lord God

You will find complete comfort there, in His angelic arms

Such a hot-button topic, isn't it: death. We don't really know, do we? We can only HOPE IN HIM that we WILL 'sleep in Him' after we die, sleep 'present' in the arms of THE Angel

Our body in the ground, but, our spirit soooo with Him, so, at rest, with Him, finally, awwww, AT REST, like Deuteronomy, we have ENTERED His rest. The Israelites who disobeyed God, God said, 'They will NEVER enter my rest.'

WE MUST OBEY HIM HERE , the Lord leads

"...you follow Me."

[video=youtube;qh3WuenttBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVbkz_3lO3c[/video]

Cobus · Oct 4, 2013

GREENIE..... here is the Truth..... Every person IN CHRIST, is already at rest, in peace and in BLISS.... Here is what My Lord does.... Jesus says all who are weary come unto me and I will give you rest..... Do you know where that REST is? Where that SLEEP is ..... IN HIM!!!!

If we go to HIM, HE TAKES OUR PLACE IN THIS FLESH, and WE GET TO BE IN HIM.... When I asked God when will I preach to the people HE WOULD SEND ME TOO, HE said..... SORRY SON I WILL BE OCCUPYING THAT BODY FOR THAT PART OF YOUR LIFE...

My friend if I am the ONE WHO IS THE OLD WHO PASSED, then GOD IS THE ALL MADE NEW IN ME....

God bless Greenie, and SHOW HIM HOW POWERFUL YOU SAVE AND GIVE REST!

GreenNnice · Oct 4, 2013

Amen, cobe, bro, I did a entire thread on 'God's rest' per Hebrews a while back. Indeed, ON EARTH, we are given REST too. Absolutely. Come ye who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. That's defintely talking about the here and now but, also, this is important, cobe, it's talking about the 'later,' too, like RIGHT after we die, we are at 'rest' with Him , sleeping in Him, sleeping in Jesus

GreenNnice · Oct 4, 2013

Cobus said:

Cobe, I agree, like I said I did a thread on God's rest a year or two ago and it was EXACTLY what you say here. When we are His, obeying His ways, just like the Israelites did and didn't do. Those who DID entered 'My rest,' and, those who didn't, never did enter 'My rest.'

People try to make this topic way toooo heavy. I'm not doing that, I'm just speaking about death, which is 'rest,' which is 'sleep' with a KICK, because we are not just entering any rest or any sleep , but we are entering His

============================
Death is such a weighty topic, people, it's soo confusing to so many , soo anxiety-filled, don't let it, when we are 'absent from this body, we are present with the Lord.' We ARE 'sleeping,' too, Paul says that NOT everyone will 'sleep,' but, some will. But, there is JUST something in that 'sleep' word that many just don't git the gist of....

Let me put it to you very clearly, YOU are no longer in your sin-corrupted (but saved by His blood) body, but YOU are weightless, like this song sings, you are a SPIRIT and you are His

The Holy Spirit gives you the SEAL of your salvation, your inheritance is wrapped up in following Him, as many as are led by the Spirit of God are sons and daughters of God, right, Romans 8:14. Never forget

Never forget that you are in the arms of an Angel after you die, YOU are sleeping with the same One whom Jacob wrestled, whose power stopped up the mouths of lions, kept Daniel and Co. from being burned in a furnace, gave Hannah kids, predicted through Scriptures of our future King coming, shows the Truth of Revelation, as events NOW unfold in concert with it's books happenings and verses and meanings.

This is the Truth: When YOU die, and, this song is not greatly telling this Truth, for it's not truth, it's a song by a secular singer, but it's such a song with the word 'weightless' in it and tells, too, that we are IN the arms of the Angel.

I find it fascinating ,too, that the song capitalizes the 'A' in angel.

But, when you hear the words, KNOW this, where the words say: "May you find some comfort there."

Know this ! YOU WILL FIND ALL COMFORT IN JESUS' ROCKING ARMS AS YOU SLEEP IN HIM IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU FIRST, ONCE, DIE. HEAVEN IS FOR REAL , YOU WILL FIND ULTIMATE COMFORT THERE, ONE DAY, AFTER YOU SLEEP FOR A LITTLE WHILE, WITH JESUS, IN HIM , just like 1 Thessalonians 4 says. Truth !

[video=youtube;i1GmxMTwUgs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1GmxMTwUgs[/video]

duewell · Oct 4, 2013

those who are asleep in Jesus are all around us. they walk and talk and live and die, but they are asleep. they swim in an ocean of love and don't even know they are wet. the Spirit is rattling the cages of those who are asleep. its time to wake up all those who are asleep in Jesus. they are dead and think they are alive, they are asleep and think they are awake, they are here and don't know where here is. they are friends and family and neighbors. you see them everyday. some wake up and go back to sleep. who are those who are still awake.

duewell
mark 4 v 11-13

GreenNnice · Oct 4, 2013

duewell said:

The mystery of godliness is great isn't it, doHiswell, and, not just as superlative form, great, greater, greatest, like good, better , best, but, instead like 'How great Thou art' and 'Great is the Lord.' We serve a great God who is so, well, great

danschance · Oct 6, 2013

Greenie,

Are you saying that our body "sleeps" in the grave but our spirit lives on in Heaven or the bad place?

GreenNnice · Oct 6, 2013

danschance said:

This topic, dansnochance, draws so much opinion, and, the Truth is, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS, it's up to YOU to believe if heaven is for real even, I mean, we have the 'hope' of going somewhere after we die that is good, or, just is somewhere where we are conscious and being with the Lord. I BELIEVE in that 'hope,' brother

I fully, faith-fully believe faithfully in THAT hope, bro !

That said, I read what Scripture tells me, and, it tells me that I WILL 'sleep in Jesus' after I DIE once from my life here now on Earth. But, from that time dying, my spirit is THEN with Jesus. Hope fully in Christ's Truth, dansnochance, for His peace will passeth all understanding

God's promises, by the way, to the believer, are truth, for they come from The Truth, not to mention 'The Way,' and, oh, don't EVER forget this last one, it says soooo much: The Life

People in Christ never really die. Surely, they only 'sleep in Jesus.' :-)

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