pHart could you talk with me?

[loveme1]

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Philippians 4King James Version (KJV)

4 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


[/TD]
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Matthew 6

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 325Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.



i really can attest that the above is true.. now I’m neither rich or poor yet would not ask for anything else for if I can eat, share and pay my dues while I abide then all is well for First is to seek the Kingdom of GOD.. be Faithful and Believe.. have Faith but be content knowing this is temporary and let nothing come between you and the eternal.. it is not always guitar playing and happy singing times for any of us but in all thing give thanks and Glory to GOD.. do not ask a miss.. be strengthened and comforted is better for the Spirit than to be handed the plate in hand.. okay I’m boring you all and will stop..

 

[stonesoffire]

I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with having more than enough...But some of us don't have more than enough. We eke by. Live hand to mouth mostly. And an apostle said if you have ENOUGH to eat and drink, be content. And he said he had learned to be content with a little or a lot. So I could counter what you said with: There is nothing wrong with NOT having more than enough. I don't quite understand where you were going with the comment, sorry.

And P.S. - I think I'd be in trouble if He gave me everything my heart wanted....

I was addressing from the ninth paragraph down stunned. I see you up and down in your faith. One day on a high, then a plummet. The resting in Him is peace. Kept by the Word of God, but is progressive and not instantaneous.

Giving us the desires of our heart, to me doesn't mean all that we want He will give. That's the Santa Clause thinking. When we are in fellowship with Him, surrendered to His will. He places right desires in our heart.

Scripture does show prosperity to His own. In His wisdom it is needs being met. Or abundance. Contentment in eaither is what Paul taught and lived. I was trying to show that life in the Spirit, is just one day at a time. Being kept. For we have reurned to fellowshipping with Father through His Son. As Adam was before the fall. All that is needed supplied in every way, both spiritually, and physically.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi, Stunned.

I do recall talking to you about this passage:

"1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." (James 4:1-3 NIV)

This passage was a life changer for me. By nature we react to threats to our security and well being in sinful ways (fear, anger, rage, jealousy, greed, etc). I realized that the problem was not the things threatening my well being, it was my sinful response to those things. Once I realized that, I was able to focus God's grace for the problem in the right place....in me.

Let me know if this was the passage you were thinking of. I've been short of time to post, but I'll be back. And thank you for your inquiry. Even if this wasn't the passage, we'll all talk anyway, and, prayerfully, we'll all be edified and strengthened and encouraged as we learn from each other and inspire one another to growth in Christ. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, it is my response of worry or fear that is the problem. I had an added problem where I had become convinced that the temptation itself was me sinning. But He showed me that it is only sin if I advert to it (sink into it and ride along).

I do believe I would have the problem of spending it on my pleasure if He gave me overabundance. I've seen how easy it is for me to think a thing is a need when its not if I have some extra...

I'm just really tired of this same temptation. It was probably temporary insanity when I came on here at 3 A.M. thinking there could be a way to ever be free of temptation. I was feeling so tired at the constant harassment I guess.

But hey, its good that I at least know now that the harassment isn't me sinning.

Just tired of...having even brief pitying thoughts that He wills for me to live this way presently. Its obviously both His will AND its good for me.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Philippians 4King James Version (KJV)

4 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.
5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

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[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Matthew 6

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 325Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.



i really can attest that the above is true.. now I’m neither rich or poor yet would not ask for anything else for if I can eat, share and pay my dues while I abide then all is well for First is to seek the Kingdom of GOD.. be Faithful and Believe.. have Faith but be content knowing this is temporary and let nothing come between you and the eternal.. it is not always guitar playing and happy singing times for any of us but in all thing give thanks and Glory to GOD.. do not ask a miss.. be strengthened and comforted is better for the Spirit than to be handed the plate in hand.. okay I’m boring you all and will stop..

You certainly didn't bore me!

 

[NayborBear]

Does it matter? You think she has no desire to be refined?

Are ye daft EG? It surely DOES matter!

Now looky this, from her OP, EG....."There is some sort of...line, a dividing line? and I'm standing right on it instead of on one side or the other. Because I waver back and forth. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing when I'm kicking sand around with my foot and trying to cover up that line to go with the worlds wisdom instead of trust."

And?

"I guess what really hit me hard this morning is...a deep and profound...weariness over this struggle that never quite ceases. I think I have it licked and then it comes back and I just want to be done with it and be completely firm."

Reading these 2 statements? What do YOU "see", EG?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

you sounded like you tried to tell her if she was still struggling she could not be saved. If this is true, You are wrong, dead wrong. And you need to judge yourself (remove the plank) before you judge others.

I don't think he was saying I wasn't saved...
I think he was saying I don't want to be refined/sifted to come out pure.

I don't think he's right on that though.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are ye daft EG? It surely DOES matter!

Now looky this, from her OP, EG....."There is some sort of...line, a dividing line? and I'm standing right on it instead of on one side or the other. Because I waver back and forth. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing when I'm kicking sand around with my foot and trying to cover up that line to go with the worlds wisdom instead of trust."

And?

"I guess what really hit me hard this morning is...a deep and profound...weariness over this struggle that never quite ceases. I think I have it licked and then it comes back and I just want to be done with it and be completely firm."

Reading these 2 statements? What do YOU "see", EG?

You must be sinless. If not. You are decieved. Because you can not live up to your own standard. Even paul struggled with things at the end of his life. Are you greater than Paul?

 

[NayborBear]

You must be sinless. If not. You are decieved. Because you can not live up to your own standard. Even paul struggled with things at the end of his life. Are you greater than Paul?

Again, I must ask you EG. Are you daft?
Ya been a fightin' so much in here, ya done got yerself punch drunk?
Anything that anyone sez, not according to your "doctrine/s", whether right or wrong, you start swinging at?
Good thing about that is, you got about a 50% chance of being right!
Bad thing is, you got about a 50% chance of being wrong!
EG? Yer wrong, in this assessment of my advice, and its intent!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, I must ask you EG. Are you daft?
Ya been a fightin' so much in here, ya done got yerself punch drunk?
Anything that anyone sez, not according to your "doctrine/s", whether right or wrong, you start swinging at?
Good thing about that is, you got about a 50% chance of being right!
Bad thing is, you got about a 50% chance of being wrong!
EG? Yer wrong, in this assessment of my advice, and its intent!

I s

All I did was make a statement based on what it seemed like you said..

You did not deny I was wrong. Nor did you show how I was wrong, all you have done is judge me and call me a name.

Your the one with the issue my friend. If I was wrong, tell me, and I will admit it. But since you refuse to do that, I can do nothing but share what I see.

once again.

She said she has a struggle

You claimed (as I see) she is not trusting God (whether you meant she was not saved, or she has NO DESIRE to be refined (grow in christ)

so I responded the way I did.

Your wrong in both cases.. If you can not see this, this is on you. If I am wrong in what I thought you meant, then correct me.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thank you DC. Yes, I know these things. I know these promises. And yet the constant temptation to worry still assails me at times. Shouldn't I be past that 11 years later? It gets wearying to have the same battle over and over.

Maybe...my problem is lust...that desire to have more than enough for the day...?

MAYBE.....but some good advice that really helped me.....

a. Do not worry about something that has not happened yet
b. Do not worry about anything that is beyond your control
c. Trust the Lord because he loves you and will never leave thee nor forsake thee
d. The same issues you have is being dealt with by your brothers and sisters all over the world as well
e. Being godly and content is great gain
f. All this crap will burn one day soon anyway

 

[Magenta]

I have not seen anyone having mention the Scripture about the ant laying away for leaner times. I do not see this as an issue of not trusting in the Lord unless there is excessive focus on it to the point of idolatry. God giving us the desires of our hearts is not always a bad thing either if you think of it in terms of God giving us new heart desires

 

[Angela53510]

In the western world, adequate finances are a big deal! I don't think it is not trusting God to work, to save and to not spend. Unfortunately, media tempts us with a "good life' that doesn't exist for most. Buy, buy, buy! Travel first class and see the world when you retire. Save, save save!

The first 20 years my husband and I were together, we lived on a zero bank balance. The bills were paid on time, there was food on the table, but not a penny left over. Even when I went to work part time, it was not easy with 4 growing children to keep out of the hole. In fact, my husband was paid biweekly. So twice a year, we would get 3 checks in a month. By "coincidence" those were always the times when we had dipped severely in the hole and that check was always eaten up immediately.

My parents had lots of money when I was growing up, although they never spent any of their millions on their children. But, I was used to the idea of being comfortable. But even then, my mom budgeted and kept track of every penny they spent. That was an important lesson for me. So, I did a budget, and then kept track with double bookkeeping of all our expenses. The only conclusion I reached, was the reason that I was dressed in rags, was because I hadn't spent a cent on clothes for myself, in years!

Anyway, I finally took a position working full time. My kids were in school, and my plan was to work till retirement, which would be next year, full time. Then, I would have a nice pension, plus a lot of money saved. Ahh! The good life!

Not! I got RA that year, although it was not properly diagnosed for quite a few years. I had to cut back to part time work, part time disabilty the next year. The year after that, I tried to go back. I walked around the school, getting things ready, before the school year started. Nope even any kids to deal with. I got home and cried for hours, the pain was so bad. That was the end of the good pension, and the good life. I went on disability.

But, as the kids left home, there was more money left over. Then, we got transferred, sold our house for a lot of money, bought a lot and built a beautiful new home, worth a lot more. Suddenly, the mortgage was paid for! A lot more free money, even with my daughter in figure skating 6 days a week (you have to pay for coaches, sometimes 3 of them, plus ice time, competitions, etc!)

Then, even she was gone! Hubby retired early, some investments I had originally put into Canada Savings Bonds taken monthly off my check paid well. Same with hubby.

So, after all those difficult years of struggling, and more important, we are comfortable, and we probably won't have to worry about money again. Well, next year I lose $750 bridging formula in my pension, trying not to worry about that. So, I do get worry! And when it feels like slogging! So here is my favourite Proverb, which really applies to so many things in our lives.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding,
In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths." Prov. 3:5-6

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

MAYBE.....but some good advice that really helped me.....

a. Do not worry about something that has not happened yet
b. Do not worry about anything that is beyond your control
c. Trust the Lord because he loves you and will never leave thee nor forsake thee
d. The same issues you have is being dealt with by your brothers and sisters all over the world as well
e. Being godly and content is great gain
f. All this crap will burn one day soon anyway

Wait a minute...shouldn't you have posted this in the thread about things we can all agree on...?

 

[dcontroversal]

I have not seen anyone having mention the Scripture about the ant laying away for leaner times. I do not see this as an issue of not trusting in the Lord unless there is excessive focus on it to the point of idolatry. God giving us the desires of our hearts is not always a bad thing either if you think of it in terms of God giving us new heart desires

AMEN...wise men see evil coming and prepare for it.........as most know by now.....I fully believe in the bolded statement....

 

[dcontroversal]

Wait a minute...shouldn't you have posted this in the thread about things we can all agree on...?

Hilarious......copy and paste it....and at the end of the day.....if we are all honest with the scriptures we will be in agreement HAHAH good luck hey

 

[NayborBear]

I don't think he was saying I wasn't saved...
I think he was saying I don't want to be refined/sifted to come out pure.

I don't think he's right on that though.

It's not that I don't think you don't want to be refined. Or, if we're even talking about refining. Could be, God, is wanting to do some "re-arranging", or moving a certain part of you, out of the "growth path", of another part of you, that needs the room to grow.

As stated in your OP, you became pretty good at recognizing this juncture, or crossroads, or fork in the road. And, have become quite weary, in its....what?.....Blocking the road in front of you? You've got gospel armor right? Take that sword of the Spirit and STAB that sucker!

Or? Perhaps, it's a piece of your cross that needs to be "picked up", in your continuing to follow Christ.

The advice I gave, was from what I experienced when, "a matter" kept recurring, and recurring.
In my case, it was the Lord having to move a part of me out of the way, so that, another part could be "rewired", so to speak, and brought online, or be made alive (quickened). Long time spiritually atrophied "muscles", get like that, from lack of use.

 

[NayborBear]

I s

All I did was make a statement based on what it seemed like you said..

You did not deny I was wrong. Nor did you show how I was wrong, all you have done is judge me and call me a name.

Your the one with the issue my friend. If I was wrong, tell me, and I will admit it. But since you refuse to do that, I can do nothing but share what I see.

once again.

She said she has a struggle

You claimed (as I see) she is not trusting God (whether you meant she was not saved, or she has NO DESIRE to be refined (grow in christ)

so I responded the way I did.

Your wrong in both cases.. If you can not see this, this is on you. If I am wrong in what I thought you meant, then correct me.

This was my answer to your accusing me.

Speaking from similar experience/s? Yes!

Advice from goodly-Godly council? Yes!

Is that "judging?" To some eyes? It would appear so.

Now, that's about the "nicest" way of trying to communicate that one is in error.

I wasn't judging, EG. But YOU are!

 

[CherieR]

Try not to be hard on yourself. We all have struggles. We are all growing in Christ. Consider Romans 8:1. God does not condemn you nor is he critical. He is not saying to you " you should be past this by now". Please don't say it to yourself either. God loves you and is carrying you in his arms( see Isaiah 40:11). Don't be afraid to pour out your heart before God about all this and to thank him for the good things he has done for you.

 

[Nehemiah6]

pHart, I read a post of yours somewhere and can't find it again now.

SBG,
I realize you have addressed this to a specific individual, but I will provide some input.

I talk to brothers and sisters all the time about this, which is, from my observations of others and myself, a huge and first hurdle that we stumble on and don't ever get running swiftly because of. You could call the hurdle "The deceitfulness of riches" or..."The exodus wandering relived."

If a person is struggling to survive it has nothing to do with the "deceitfulness of riches". And the Exodus wandering in the wilderness also has nothing to do with this matter.

I know this isn't so much for those with financial security or a good job and a 401k. It's more for us who have never really had that but have lived more hand to mouth - either all of our lives or more recently, through circumstances where we lost a job with "bennies" or became fairly destitute from some other cause.

Something which you should be aware of is that Satan and his evil spirits attack or sabotage the finances of Christians so that their focus is removed from the critical matters and is placed on mere survival. But Christians can pray the prayer of Jabez in this connection, which is quite appropriate ( 1 Chron 4:10):

And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.

If God granted His request, then this prayer was quite acceptable to God.

I see our "jars of worms" where we gather enough for the day AND for 30 years of retirement. And I see all of the worry about if we've saved enough to not starve in old age. And the worry when 401k's take a hit. Etc., etc. There is some inner lying of saying we trust when really we show ourselves to be leaning on a stockpile for our security.

There is nothing in the Bible which discourages believers from saving, having an emergency fund, or a retirement fund. This is simple prudence, not lack of faith.

Because I really would like some financial security, even though I KNOW He has done the very best thing for me and my growth of trust in Him and His promises.

Well now that you know that you can pray about this, do so. But then you have to take appropriate steps to increase your income, which could mean obtaining the qualifications for a better job, starting your own business, making good investments, or whatever it takes to do something legally and honorably.

The important thing which God sees is your motivation. Is it the love of money, or is it a desire to not be distracted from doing the Lord's work and the Lord's will.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

SBG,
I realize you have addressed this to a specific individual, but I will provide some input.


If a person is struggling to survive it has nothing to do with the "deceitfulness of riches". And the Exodus wandering in the wilderness also has nothing to do with this matter.

Something which you should be aware of is that Satan and his evil spirits attack or sabotage the finances of Christians so that their focus is removed from the critical matters and is placed on mere survival. But Christians can pray the prayer of Jabez in this connection, which is quite appropriate ( 1 Chron 4:10):

And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.

If God granted His request, then this prayer was quite acceptable to God.

There is nothing in the Bible which discourages believers from saving, having an emergency fund, or a retirement fund. This is simple prudence, not lack of faith.

Well now that you know that you can pray about this, do so. But then you have to take appropriate steps to increase your income, which could mean obtaining the qualifications for a better job, starting your own business, making good investments, or whatever it takes to do something legally and honorably.

The important thing which God sees is your motivation. Is it the love of money, or is it a desire to not be distracted from doing the Lord's work and the Lord's will.

I think we are just on way, way different wavelengths Nehemiah...

I'm not saying that struggling financially means a person is deceived by riches. But if they freak out and don't trust the promise that God knows what they need and the command to not worry about provision as the unbelievers do, then they certainly ARE deceived by riches. (And are following the world in the matter instead of Gods word on the matter.)

On your next paragraph, I agree that satan CAN attack/sabatoge the finances of a godly person. BUT, as Job shows me, he can only do so IF God gives him permission. And if He gives permission, it is to bless me GREATLY in the end. God doesn't tempt us, He does test us (as with Israel in the desert when it says He let them become very thirsty TO SEE WHAT THEY WOULD DO. Satan is the one who tempts us, not God. And if we fall in with that temptation through the lust of our eyes, then we're walking by sight rather than faith.

As to the rest of your thoughts above, on emergency funds, etc., and saying there is nothing in the bible to discourage us from saving...yeah, we're on completely different wavelengths. There are many things the bible doesn't say outright, but it still runs throughout the entire bible. You could say Israel was commanded not to save but to only gather enough for the day. Some disobeyed and that "savings account" turned to worms.

I have a very deceitful heart. I am fully capable of saving and then saying my heart is not on that money when I'm lying. I'm a posterchild for: wherever your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

And we won't even get into the whole "investing to increase your income" thing. It will never be me to make money off another mans back and the sweat of his brow. Money does not magically grow. It only grows off the back of another man and I may not be firm in a lot, but that I definitely AM firm on that and I won't do it. Each man can follow his own conscience on it. But that's as far as I'll go on it or I would be typing two pages!

It's okay that we're on different wavelengths. I have seen some things I can't unsee. And neither would I want to.