Plato, Aristotle, St. Augustine and St. Thomas: Masters of Theology
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Does love conquer all, or is it just a subjective delusion?
For Jesus's statement to be true "I am the way, the truth and the life" there is not defeat in listening to the best of mans ideas. By understanding the ideas, and comparing the differences we begin to understand the wisdom of God.
Truth stands irrespective of its origin. Even Satan is subservient to the King. I have met too many christians who talk as if their faith is merely the current position they have, rather than an eternal truth which we need to explore and discover as we go through life. Much of the bible used to be closed to me because of my lack of life experience, but now I see much more, because I see how we operate, and what is innate in us, and what we invent. Funnily we invent very little and most is repeated time and again in families and relationships 7+ billion times a day.
For Jesus's statement to be true "I am the way, the truth and the life" there is not defeat in listening to the best of mans ideas. By understanding the ideas, and comparing the differences we begin to understand the wisdom of God.
Truth stands irrespective of its origin. Even Satan is subservient to the King. I have met too many christians who talk as if their faith is merely the current position they have, rather than an eternal truth which we need to explore and discover as we go through life. Much of the bible used to be closed to me because of my lack of life experience, but now I see much more, because I see how we operate, and what is innate in us, and what we invent. Funnily we invent very little and most is repeated time and again in families and relationships 7+ billion times a day.
I don't know the answer to your question.
But I do know that the Protestant understanding of "works" is works of (obedience to) Biblical commands, both of the Mosaic law and of the NT.
Paul uses it most often to refer to obedience to the Mosaic law because he so often had to deal with Judaizers, who were trying to bring Christians under obedience to circumcision, if not to the whole Mosaic law, in order to be saved.
It also applies to obedience to the NT commands when they are viewed as the basis of salvation, which is through faith by grace, and not by works/physical actions (Eph 2:8-9) of obedience to Biblical commands.
But I do know that the Protestant understanding of "works" is works of (obedience to) Biblical commands, both of the Mosaic law and of the NT.
Paul uses it most often to refer to obedience to the Mosaic law because he so often had to deal with Judaizers, who were trying to bring Christians under obedience to circumcision, if not to the whole Mosaic law, in order to be saved.
It also applies to obedience to the NT commands when they are viewed as the basis of salvation, which is through faith by grace, and not by works/physical actions (Eph 2:8-9) of obedience to Biblical commands.
This is exactly the protestant understanding I was talking about. Ephesians ch. 2 clearly talks about works of the Mosaic Law and not "works/physical actions" as it can be seen if one reads with honesty and the whole chapter not only the verses 8 and 9. Why is Saint Paul talking about circumcision in the verses that follow? Who, between the Jews and Gentiles, would boast? And why?
Yes, Paul is applying this gospel principle to the works of the Mosaic law for the reason I gave above--he is dealing with the Judaizing influence.
There were no Christians in the time of Paul who asserted, contrary to the gospel principle, that works/physical actions in obedience to the NT commands were the basis for salvation, so you won't find him addressing such regarding NT commands.
However, this gospel principle applies to all works/physical actions as a basis of salvation.
There were no Christians in the time of Paul who asserted, contrary to the gospel principle, that works/physical actions in obedience to the NT commands were the basis for salvation, so you won't find him addressing such regarding NT commands.
However, this gospel principle applies to all works/physical actions as a basis of salvation.
When someone says faith contrasts with ceremonial works, or works of the law, I think there are at least 3 texts which deny this. One is Eph 2:8-9 where faith is contrasted with works. This is not ceremonial works because Gentiles are in view, not Jews, and it doesn't say deeds of the Law, it just says works, all works.
Another is Rom. 11:6 where grace is contrasted with works. Again, all works are in view, no mention of the Law or ceremonial works. Grace is no longer grace if it is of works at all. This also has in view election.
A third is Titus 3:5 where it says not by works of righteousness which we have done but by mercy he saved us. Now you may want to say these works of righteousness are ceremonial works, but again, the context speaks against it. In Tit. 3:1 it says for them to be ready for every good work, to obey authority, to be peaceable, gentle, speaking evil of no one, showing humility. These are not ceremonial works these are good, moral works. Yet in no way are we saved by them acc. to v. 5.
Another is Rom. 11:6 where grace is contrasted with works. Again, all works are in view, no mention of the Law or ceremonial works. Grace is no longer grace if it is of works at all. This also has in view election.
A third is Titus 3:5 where it says not by works of righteousness which we have done but by mercy he saved us. Now you may want to say these works of righteousness are ceremonial works, but again, the context speaks against it. In Tit. 3:1 it says for them to be ready for every good work, to obey authority, to be peaceable, gentle, speaking evil of no one, showing humility. These are not ceremonial works these are good, moral works. Yet in no way are we saved by them acc. to v. 5.
What is your ultimate goal here? I would say that without JESUS CHRIST, nobody's philosophy amounts to anything, as good as it may sound on the surface for those that were born before JESUS CHRIST, or those born after His birth. You and I have the privilege of being born in this time and era, where we can compair and see for ourselves just whom and what JESUS is and how our eternity depends on what stock we put into accepting HIM as a personal Savior...let yesteryear figure itself out. You can't change history, but you can control your destiny by allowing the Holy SPIRIT to permeate and control. That is what life is truely about.
I don't think the principle is the same. The "works/physical actions" that protestants refer to are good deeds or moral effort to earn salvation (they see even the sacraments as "works", right?). The difference between the Jews and Gentiles is not that the Jews are morally better persons than the Gentiles, but that the Jews are God's chosen people (and they felt superior to all other people because of their election) and that God made a covenant with them. So, how does one enter in covenant with God? Through works of Torah or by faith in the sacrifice of Christ?
I am sure that Saint Paul would have been against the catholic abuses, but not that he would call sacraments "works" or that we would regard a person who strives to live a holy life as a "legalist".
I am sure that Saint Paul would have been against the catholic abuses, but not that he would call sacraments "works" or that we would regard a person who strives to live a holy life as a "legalist".
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Thats a fallacy, Paul did not mention the law in eph 2. He did not mention physical circumcision, he mentioned spiritual. Paul spoke of any work of righteousness, just like he did in titus, not by works of righteousness we have done. Those would include any works, not just works of the law.
Saying it includes just works of the law feeds into the catholic and many protestant beliefs that we are saved by other works. Like baptism, communion/eucharist, church membership, acts of penance etc etc. And allows their works based Gospel, which is no more a gospel than the one the religious jews taught adding works of the law, to flourish
Saying it includes just works of the law feeds into the catholic and many protestant beliefs that we are saved by other works. Like baptism, communion/eucharist, church membership, acts of penance etc etc. And allows their works based Gospel, which is no more a gospel than the one the religious jews taught adding works of the law, to flourish
No, in Scripture its meaning is its definition.
It matters not how the Greeks used it, what matters is how the NT uses it.
Just as with the words "flesh and blood" and "spiritual" as used by Paul
are not the Greek usages of those words, where the former means the physical body
and the latter means the immaterial, non-physical.
With Paul "flesh and blood" means the sinful, weak, corruptible body and
"spiritual" always means of the Holy Spirit and never the immaterial or non-physical.
In the NT "logos" means what Paul uses it to mean.
It matters not how the Greeks used it, what matters is how the NT uses it.
Just as with the words "flesh and blood" and "spiritual" as used by Paul
are not the Greek usages of those words, where the former means the physical body
and the latter means the immaterial, non-physical.
With Paul "flesh and blood" means the sinful, weak, corruptible body and
"spiritual" always means of the Holy Spirit and never the immaterial or non-physical.
In the NT "logos" means what Paul uses it to mean.