POLL: The Deity of Christ

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The Deity of Christ?

  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
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purgedconscience

Guest
#1,041
#1,041
Elin said:
God the Son, in the order of function and authority, was always subject to God the Father in the Trinity,
as the Holy Spirit is subject to both.
God the Father willed and commanded (the plan).
God the Son executed (the plan).
God the Holy Spirit applied the benefits of (the plan).

All three are equal persons in the one God.
Click to expand...
Is there anybody else who is following this thread who agrees with what Elin stated above?
 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#1,042
#1,042
flob:

I notice that you didn't answer my question about President Obama. Is there a reason for that?
 
E

Elin

Banned
#1,043
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#1,043
purgedconscience said:
Elin said:
God the Son, in the order of function and authority, was always subject to God the Father in the Trinity, as God the Holy Spirit is subject to both of them.

God the Father willed and commanded (the plan).
God the Son executed (the plan).
God the Holy Spirit applied the benefits of (the plan).

All three are equal persons in the one God.
Click to expand...
Is there anybody else who is following this thread who agrees with what Elin stated above?
Click to expand...
Yes, historical Christian orthodoxy agrees with that.

It is the testimony of Scripture (just as God the Son was always the Son of God is the testimony of Scripture):

Jn 5:23, 36 - the Father sent the Son;
God the Son is subject to the Father

Jn 5:43 - Jesus came in the Father's name, acting as the Father's agent, speaking the Father's words (Jn 12:49-50, 14:24), doing the Father's works (Jn 4:34, 10:25, 17:4) and bearing witness to the One who sent him;
God the Son is subject to God the Father

Jn 14:26 - the Father will send the Spirit "in my name," to act in the world as Jesus agent, witness (1Jn 5:7), deputy, doing Jesus' will and acting as Jesus' representative and with his authority;
God the Holy Spirit is subject to the Father

Jn 15:26 - the Son will send the Spirit "from the Father";
God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son, as well as to God the Father

Jn 16:27 - as the Father sent the Son into the world, so the Son will send the Spirit into the world.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son.

There has always been an order of function and authority in the Trinity.
 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#1,046
#1,046
oldhermit said:
I think understanding functionality is the key to understanding the Triadic Unity.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Can you elaborate? My question for you is do you believe that the Word was always subservient to God from eternity past or did that begin at the incarnation? Here's a hint:

Philippians chapter 2 verses 5 thru 7

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
 
F

flob

Guest
#1,047
#1,047
That's correct that submission (of the Son) and authority (of the Father) was not inherent in the Trinity, but rather equality.
And that authority and submission was taken on when the Son became the Son of Man.
The fact that the Son is the 'embodiment' of the Father, in eternity past, or the outflow of the Father, and that the Father is the source, did not equate to authority and submission within the Godhead. Similar too the Word of God. Does not mean that the Word had a beginning, when first uttered or so. Rather the Word, like the Son, is an eternal equal-member of the Trinity. The Word is the Son
 
E

Elin

Banned
#1,048
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#1,048
flob said:
Elin said:
God the Son, in the order of function and authority, was always subject to God the Father in the Trinity, as God the Holy Spirit is subject to both of them.

 God the Father willed and commanded (the plan).
God the Son executed (the plan).
God the Holy Spirit applied the benefits of (the plan).

All three are equal persons in the one God.
Click to expand...
That's correct that submission (of the Son) and authority (of the Father) was not inherent in the Trinity, but rather equality.
And that authority and submission was taken on when the Son became the Son of Man.
The fact that the Son is the 'embodiment' of the Father, in eternity past, or the outflow of the Father, and that the Father is the source, did not equate to authority and submission within the Godhead. Similar too the Word of God. Does not mean that the Word had a beginning, when first uttered or so. Rather the Word, like the Son, is an eternal equal-member of the Trinity. The Word is the Son
Click to expand...
The testimony of Scripture is otherwise:

Jn 5:23, 36 - the Father sent the Son;
God the Son is subject to the Father

Jn 5:43 - Jesus came in the Father's name, acting as the Father's agent, speaking the Father's words (Jn 12:49-50, 14:24), doing the Father's works (Jn 4:34, 10:25, 17:4) and bearing witness to the One who sent him;
God the Son is subject to God the Father

Jn 14:26 - the Father will send the Spirit "in my name," to act in the world as Jesus agent, witness (1Jn 5:7), deputy, doing Jesus' will and acting as Jesus' representative and with his authority;
God the Holy Spirit is subject to the Father

Jn 15:26 - the Son will send the Spirit "from the Father";
God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son, as well as to God the Father

Jn 16:27 - as the Father sent the Son into the world, so the Son will send the Spirit into the world.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son.

There has always been an order of function and authority among the equal persons of the Trinity.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and
God the Holy Spirit is subject to both God the Father and God the Son.
 
F

flob

Guest
#1,050
#1,050
The testimony of Scripture is otherwise:
Jn 5:23, 36 - the Father sent the Son;
God the Son is subject to the Father
Click to expand...
That is the nature of the Son of God. He's not only sent by the Father,
He is begotten from the Father. He is the Word and the Image of the Father.
That is not submission, in divinity, that is equality.

In regard to His humanity, becoming the Son of Man, yes, the Son took on submission just as His Father took on authority.






Jn 5:43 - Jesus came in the Father's name, acting as the Father's agent, speaking the Father's words (Jn 12:49-50, 14:24), doing the Father's works (Jn 4:34, 10:25, 17:4) and bearing witness to the One who sent him;
God the Son is subject to God the Father
Click to expand...
Same as above. The Son became subject to the Father.
But in eternity past, Son and Father are equal, just as one cannot be 'father' without a son, one cannot be 'son' without a father.






Jn 14:26 - the Father will send the Spirit "in my name," to act in the world as Jesus agent, witness (1Jn 5:7), deputy, doing Jesus' will and acting as Jesus' representative and with his authority;
God the Holy Spirit is subject to the Father
Jn 15:26 - the Son will send the Spirit "from the Father";
God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son, as well as to God the Father
Jn 16:27 - as the Father sent the Son into the world, so the Son will send the Spirit into the world.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son.
There has always been an order of function and authority among the equal persons of the Trinity.
Click to expand...
There has always been an order, and yet all are without beginning. They just are. I Am. That is not
authority and submission, rather that just is. It is Being. God is one I Am. The nature of the Spirit is
of the Father and of the Son. The Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit of the Son.

In regard to humanity, there is submission and direction. The Father flows to the Son, the Son with the Father flows out as the Spirit. The Spirit is now not only the Spirit of God, but also the Spirit of a glorified man, the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Incorporating the man Jesus Christ and His humanity as elements/ingredients of the Spirit. The Father and Son, the Triune God, took on this matter of authority and submission, because man failed at it. After Lucifer rebelled to it. God the Father, and the Son of God, through the Son of Man, establish it.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#1,051
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
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69
Alabama
#1,051
purgedconscience said:
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Can you elaborate? My question for you is do you believe that the Word was always subservient to God from eternity past or did that begin at the incarnation? Here's a hint:

Philippians chapter 2 verses 5 thru 7

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Click to expand...
Triadic functionality has absolutely nothing to do with subordination. I cover the concept of triadic functionality on page 24 post #475.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#1,052
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#1,052
flob said:
That is the nature of the Son of God. He's not only sent by the Father,
He is begotten from the Father. He is the Word and the Image of the Father.
That is not submission, in divinity, that is equality.

In regard to His humanity, becoming the Son of Man, yes, the Son took on submission just as His Father took on authority.







Same as above. The Son became subject to the Father.
But in eternity past, Son and Father are equal, just as one cannot be 'father' without a son, one cannot be 'son' without a father.







There has always been an order, and yet all are without beginning. They just are. I Am. That is not
authority and submission, rather that just is. It is Being. God is one I Am. The nature of the Spirit is
of the Father and of the Son. The Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit of the Son.

In regard to humanity, there is submission and direction. The Father flows to the Son, the Son with the Father flows out as the Spirit. The Spirit is now not only the Spirit of God, but also the Spirit of a glorified man, the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Incorporating the man Jesus Christ and His humanity as elements/ingredients of the Spirit. The Father and Son, the Triune God, took on this matter of authority and submission, because man failed at it. After Lucifer rebelled to it. God the Father, and the Son of God, through the Son of Man, establish it.
Click to expand...
There has always been equality of persons as well as order of function and authority in the Trinity.
 
F

flob

Guest
#1,053
#1,053
There has always been ... authority in the Trinity.
Click to expand...
If Elin means that the Father is boss of the Son in eternity past, she is mistaken.

Christ Jesus, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men
 
E

Elin

Banned
#1,054
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#1,054
flob said:
If Elin means that the Father is boss of the Son in eternity past, she is mistaken.

Christ Jesus, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men
Click to expand...
Your thoughts of God are too human.

The order of function is not about "bossing."
It's about the relation of the functions among themselves.

The Father wills. Origination is with the Father.
The Son executes. The execution of what is originated is with the Son
The Holy Spirit applies. The benefits of what is executed are applied by the Holy Spirit.
 
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flob

Guest
#1,055
#1,055
Your thoughts of God are too human.
The order of function is not about "bossing."
It's about the relation of the functions among themselves.
Click to expand...
Now we seem to agree : )
Since I addressed your word 'authority,' not your words 'relation of the functions.'




The Father wills. Origination is with the Father.
The Son executes. The execution of what is originated is with the Son
The Holy Spirit applies. The benefits of what is executed are applied by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
No doubt.
All 3 are eternal: without beginning without end, a family in one.
Isa 9:6; Heb 7:3; 9:14
 
E

Elin

Banned
#1,056
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#1,056
flob said:
Now we seem to agree : )
Since I addressed your word 'authority,' not your words 'relation of the functions.'

No doubt.
All 3 are eternal: without beginning without end, a family in one.
Isa 9:6; Heb 7:3; 9:14
Click to expand...
However, the NT presents the functional relationships of the equals as subjects of.

Jn 5:23, 36 - the Father sent the Son;
God the Son is subject to the Father

Jn 5:43 - Jesus came in the Father's name, acting as the Father's agent, speaking the Father's words (Jn 12:49-50, 14:24), doing the Father's works (Jn 4:34, 10:25, 17:4) and bearing witness to the One who sent him;
God the Son is subject to God the Father

Jn 14:26 - the Father will send the Spirit "in my name," to act in the world as Jesus agent, witness (1Jn 5:7), deputy, doing Jesus' will and acting as Jesus' representative and with his authority;
God the Holy Spirit is subject to the Father

Jn 15:26 - the Son will send the Spirit "from the Father";
God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son, as well as to God the Father

Jn 16:27 - as the Father sent the Son into the world, so the Son will send the Spirit into the world.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son.

There has always been an order of function and authority among the equal persons of the Trinity.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and
God the Holy Spirit is subject to both God the Father and God the Son.
 
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senzi

Guest
#1,057
#1,057
The only heresy if you like is if you refuse to accept THE son of God died for your sins at Calvary, and if you repent of your sin and ask him into your life as Lord and saviour you are saved
If God required more than that concerning this subject for salvation it would be plainly stated in the spirit filled bible.
I'm sorry to say, but some on websites like these are a ling way from spirit led Christianity as is available. This subject- going beyond biblical requirements might be great fun for the academic mind, but it will not better enable you to attain heaven, not bring you to live an ever more holy life. That is what truly matters
 
E

Elin

Banned
#1,058
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#1,058
senzi said:
Elin said:
However, the NT presents the functional relationships of the equals as subjects of.

Jn 5:23, 36 - the Father sent the Son;
God the Son is subject to the Father

Jn 5:43 - Jesus came in the Father's name, acting as the Father's agent, speaking the Father's words (Jn 12:49-50, 14:24), doing the Father's works (Jn 4:34, 10:25, 17:4) and bearing witness to the One who sent him;
God the Son is subject to God the Father

Jn 14:26 - the Father will send the Spirit "in my name," to act in the world as Jesus agent, witness (1Jn 5:7), deputy, doing Jesus' will and acting as Jesus' representative and with his authority;
God the Holy Spirit is subject to the Father

Jn 15:26 - the Son will send the Spirit "from the Father";
God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son, as well as to God the Father

Jn 16:27 - as the Father sent the Son into the world, so the Son will send the Spirit into the world.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit is subject to God the Son.

There has always been an order of function and authority among the equal persons of the Trinity.
God the Son is subject to God the Father, and
God the Holy Spirit is subject to both God the Father and God the Son.
Click to expand...
The only heresy if you like is if you refuse to accept THE son of God died for your sins at Calvary, and if you repent of your sin and ask him into your life as Lord and saviour you are saved
If God required more than that concerning this subject for salvation it would be plainly stated in the spirit filled bible.
Click to expand...
The above is stated in the Bible.

If what you propose were all God wanted us to know, he would not have given us all those marvelous other writings.
 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#1,060
#1,060
p_rehbein said:
So, have y'all settled anything yet?
Click to expand...
Yes.

I've settled it within my heart not to waste another second on this thread after this post.

Thanks for starting the thread, though.
 
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