Prayer of Renunciation

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cfultz3

Guest
Hi bro., because of the problems you have had in the past, you too might benefit from reading "The Bondage Breaker" by Dr. Neil T. Anderson, available from Amazon.com. In my opinion that book should be on every Christians "must read" list.
I have found a pdf link which allows one to read it for free. This giving of the link is not promoting it (as I have not yet read it), but for those who honestly like to read up on things before they discuss it.

http://selfdefinition.org/hearing-voices/Neil-T-Anderson-The-Bondage-Breaker.pdf
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
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Therapon

Guest
Does this mean that the 'guidance of the Holy Spirit' did not "kick in" until "a certain amount of experience" was first obtained? ;)
:)
Are you joking or just trying to insult? Early in my association with multis, I was like a an elephant in a rose garden so I didn't listen to the Lord very well. As a result, I made a lot of mistakes. I arrogantly “knew” all alters were demons and needed to be cast out, but over time I learned differently and listened to the Lord better. According to stillwaters, experience doesn’t count for much, but like it or not, every one of us is little more than the sum total of our experiences. Almost everything we do is based on earlier experiences because that is how we relate to the world we live in.

 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
Does this mean....

:)
(quoted just to identify who my post addresses)
Since you already hold a historicist approach to bible prophecy, earlier in this thread I asked you what it was in particular that you said you had difficulty with, in brother Ellis' dan-rev bible study:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-13.html#post989978

This isn't an appropriate thread, but I put together a sequence of posts this morning in another thread, that might be a more appropriate place, to explore that with which you may differ. I would like to help bro:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61666-mark-beast-2.html#post992373
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Are you joking or just trying to insult? Early in my association with multis, I was like a an elephant in a rose garden so I didn't listen to the Lord very well. As a result, I made a lot of mistakes. I arrogantly “knew” all alters were demons and needed to be cast out, but over time I learned differently and listened to the Lord better. According to stillwaters, experience doesn’t count for much, but like it or not, every one of us is little more than the sum total of our experiences. Almost everything we do is based on earlier experiences because that is how we relate to the world we live in.

do you know Fritz Springmeier?
read his work?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Yes, and every one of those statements is true. Brother, I am not in the fairytale business and never have been. After listening for a couple thousand hours you knew who was bogus and who wasn't, first by experience, but more importantly by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
nonsense.
you have no idea who you were talking to. at any given time.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I hope you will pray that God leads her to the right person for help. God bless you for trying to help her. Her problems are probably for more complicated than the average pastor can deal with.
uh....why would that be?
who would be "the right person"?
the local demon buster?


God is the One who grants repentance.
God is the one Who delivers.
God's Word and the Gospel save.

do you really disagree?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I read the article. I did not waste my time on the hours of audio, life is too short. I did not see where he said he no longer believed a Christian could be demon possessed. I bet he still absolutely believes Christians can have a demon. The focus on that article was how wrong the warrior world view is and his world view (what he calls the providential world view) is right. He seems like a nutter to me.

No one has answered my simple question. If a demon possessed person becomes a Christian will the demons all leave because "the Holy Spirit can not dwell with demons"? Seems like many are quick to point out what they think is doctrinal error and yet they all remain silent about what is the correct way to liberate a soul from the demonic. I find that interesting.
ya...life is too short to take the time to make sure you're not practicing dualistic heresy - some grand battle between God and satan in the hands of the church.

as opposed to the REALITY that God knows and ordains everything, and satan or demons are allowed to do NOTHING without God's permission.

how to liberate from the demonic?
maybe a place to start is quit seeing demons behind every bush.

start understanding people are sinful rebels who don't WANT the word of God.

how about actually believing the Name of Jesus is enough.


Acts 19
The Sons of Sceva

11And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. 13Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims.” 14Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” 16And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered alld of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks. And fear fell upon them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled. 18Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. 19And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20So the word of the Lord continued to increase and prevail mightily.


and you're not Paul.

why don't you people just settle down, be avaible to minister to people who are SEEKING Christ.
preach the word and leave it in God's Hands.

or...do you think He placed all that in the elite demon buster warrior class hands?
*cough*
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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There is a lot of garbage out there about helping demonized people that you need to avoid, but you might want to read "The Bondage Breaker" by Dr. Neil T. Anderson, available from Amazon.com. In my opinion that book should be on every Christians "must read" list. His is the best work on demonization that I know of. I have been using those same methods with great success for over 30 years.
how about NOT buying demon buster books
how about preaching God's Word and ministering to people in accordance with God's Plan.
oh..NOT the Bible!

that's so boring!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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I read the article. I did not waste my time on the hours of audio, life is too short. I did not see where he said he no longer believed a Christian could be demon possessed. I bet he still absolutely believes Christians can have a demon. The focus on that article was how wrong the warrior world view is and his world view (what he calls the providential world view) is right. He seems like a nutter to me.

No one has answered my simple question. If a demon possessed person becomes a Christian will the demons all leave because "the Holy Spirit can not dwell with demons"? Seems like many are quick to point out what they think is doctrinal error and yet they all remain silent about what is the correct way to liberate a soul from the demonic. I find that interesting.
your friend therapon's source has a co-author:

The Christian and Demons

But can a Christian be possessed by a demon? Definitely not.

Freedom in Christ Ministries < click
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
Very true and very sad. They keep on saying that a christian cant be possessed. There is not one scripture in the Bible that says a Christian cant be possessed. Yet they point to scriptures about other topics and argue they apply to their cause. Yet not one of the naysayers has ever answered my question: "If a demon possessed person accepts Christ and gets the Holy Spirit in them, will the demons flee?"

Yet this is the logical outcome of their dogma and it is never once ever mentioned in scripture as a viable means of casting a demon out. We never see Jesus or the Apostles converting a demon possessed person as a way of freeing a person from the demonic. Not once! Instead we see in scripture that demons are cast out with the authority of God and some even require prayer and fasting before hand to remove them.
Indeed! And for those folks in here that wish to blind themselves and pretend this stuff can't go on here's an amazing account of supernatural phenomena, penned by a Talmud thumping rabidly anti-Zionist self-proclaimed Christian (such folks are the only ones I run into quoting the Talmud), that may have stepped out from under God's protection as a result:
Ted Pike: My Wife Died a Martyr for God and Freedom
 
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danschance

Guest
I would think that "possession" would have to stop (immediately). As for "oppression" - that is different.

Think of it this way:

'possession' occurs "from within" (from inside the body) - and the effect is total control of the person

'oppression' occurs "from without" (from outside the body) - and the effect is pressured influence on the person

make sense?

BTW - I believe that the absolute majority of what is discussed in this thread (from memory - without going back to re-read it all) falls under 'oppression' rather than 'possession'.

Also - I do not believe that "some alters are saved while some are lost" --- the fact is, if a person has a "fractured mind" and has "multiple personalities" -- they are still one person with one soul - having multiple personalities does not constitute a "split" 'salvation status'. I believe that it is very highly likely that this is a case of 'oppression' and not 'possession'.

:)
GRA,

You are a brother whom I respect. I know you are diligent with the scriptures and sincere in your statements. Hats off to you for that.

1) My bible uses the term possessed to describe a person indwelt by demon(s) and I believe the scriptures back me up on this. I never use the term possession to imply ownership and I will admit the term may not be the best. Oppression is not mentioned in scripture and if a person is Possessed or Oppressed, I fail to see there is any significant difference. Both are in need of deliverance ministry.

2)You claim possession is "total control of the person". I strongly disagree. Most demon possessed persons act very normal but often have issues in specific areas. A demon of or named Fear tries to get the person to have a fear issue. The influence of this demon is somewhat limited and only exerts control in this specific area.Any demon can manifest itself and take over a body and speak using the host body.

3) Alters are amazing and can do amazing things. Psychology views them as masks a person wears to hide painful memories. I feel that is an incompletely view of alters. IMHO, Alters are parts of the mind and spirit of the core person. Also demons will at times pretend to be alters and every alter must be tested to see if it is a human part or demon. I also find it to be very important to evangelize alters and then cast demons out of them or the core person may never find healing. Once an alter becomes saved, the find that they are wearing a white robe from God. God will even interact with them to an extraordinary degree.

I believe two scriptures apply to MPD/DID:

a)[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial][/FONT]immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit...[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]crying, and cutting himself with stones.(self harm is a symptom that Alters maybe present.)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...[/FONT]My name is Legion: for we are many. ...sitting, ,and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. (excerpts from Mark 5:1-17

b) And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two [men] possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way Mathew 8:28

In the first scripture we see one man (the core person?) Then we see Legion's conundrum "My name (singular) is Legion, for we (plural) are many. (Sounds exactly what MPD/DID is?) In the second verse we two men (this can be a condition of MPD/DID known as being co-conscious). Lastly we see he is clothed (Jesus gives alters a white robe after the become saved) and in his right mind (God often merges alters, at His discretion). Legion is the one demon always found in people with MPD/DID.

I only mention these verses for you edification because I know you are a detailed person who enjoys studdying the scriptures.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Indeed! And for those folks in here that wish to blind themselves and pretend this stuff can't go on here's an amazing account of supernatural phenomena, penned by a Talmud thumping rabidly anti-Zionist self-proclaimed Christian (such folks are the only ones I run into quoting the Talmud), that may have stepped out from under God's protection as a result:
Ted Pike: My Wife Died a Martyr for God and Freedom
lemme get this straight.
ted pike's wife's tragedy...which could have been anything from mental illness to mossad ops....to demon possession has to do with THIS how?

penned by a Talmud thumping rabidly anti-Zionist self-proclaimed Christian (such folks are the only ones I run into quoting the Talmud), that may have stepped out from under God's protection as a result:

tell me Pete.
did he come out from under God's protection as a result of being antizionist?
or too much handling of the demonic Talmud?

what's your theory?

please respond.

i also have a TON of questions for you.

they're about Pamela Geller; Rick Joyner; The Talmud; Rabbinic Judaism; the Jewish State; Islam....and who you are.

i do know you're a Koran thumping rabid wild-eyed zionist water carrier (if not an israel agent)...and you're way out from under God's plan since your gospel is another gospel and your christ another christ.

thanks Pete.

there's also WW2 to look at.

i'd like to examine history with a fine tooth comb.
interested?
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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GRA,

You are a brother whom I respect. I know you are diligent with the scriptures and sincere in your statements. Hats off to you for that.

I only mention these verses for you edification because I know you are a detailed person who enjoys studdying the scriptures.
haha...GRA knows fake flattery when he sees it bud.
anyways....


1) My bible uses the term possessed to describe a person indwelt by demon(s) and I believe the scriptures back me up on this. I never use the term possession to imply ownership and I will admit the term may not be the best. Oppression is not mentioned in scripture and if a person is Possessed or Oppressed, I fail to see there is any significant difference. Both are in need of deliverance ministry.

2)You claim possession is "total control of the person". I strongly disagree. Most demon possessed persons act very normal but often have issues in specific areas. A demon of or named Fear tries to get the person to have a fear issue. The influence of this demon is somewhat limited and only exerts control in this specific area.Any demon can manifest itself and take over a body and speak using the host body.

3) Alters are amazing and can do amazing things. Psychology views them as masks a person wears to hide painful memories. I feel that is an incompletely view of alters. IMHO, Alters are parts of the mind and spirit of the core person. Also demons will at times pretend to be alters and every alter must be tested to see if it is a human part or demon. I also find it to be very important to evangelize alters and then cast demons out of them or the core person may never find healing. Once an alter becomes saved, the find that they are wearing a white robe from God. God will even interact with them to an extraordinary degree.

I believe two scriptures apply to MPD/DID:

a)[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial][/FONT]immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit...[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]crying, and cutting himself with stones.(self harm is a symptom that Alters maybe present.)[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...[/FONT]My name is Legion: for we are many. ...sitting, ,and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. (excerpts from Mark 5:1-17

b) And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two [men] possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way Mathew 8:28

In the first scripture we see one man (the core person?) Then we see Legion's conundrum "My name (singular) is Legion, for we (plural) are many. (Sounds exactly what MPD/DID is?) In the second verse we two men (this can be a condition of MPD/DID known as being co-conscious). Lastly we see he is clothed (Jesus gives alters a white robe after the become saved) and in his right mind (God often merges alters, at His discretion). Legion is the one demon always found in people with MPD/DID.
so was Legion a Christian?
 
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danschance

Guest
haha...GRA knows fake flattery when he sees it bud.
anyways....

so was Legion a Christian?
No the bible clearly says Legion was a demon. As I mentioned certain specific demons do certain specific things. A demon called Fear will try to keep a person in bondage to fear and or fear related conditions. A demon called unforgiveness will try to keep a person from forgiving and so on and so forth. Legion is the demon associated with MPD/DID.

My compliments to GRA were sincere. I have seen his posts and how he spends a great deal of time tabulating and categorizing scriptures. I respect that because I just don't have that kind of patience. Don't be so cynical. I don't mince words and I loathe attempts at manipulation.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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No the bible clearly says Legion was a demon. As I mentioned certain specific demons do certain specific things. A demon called Fear will try to keep a person in bondage to fear and or fear related conditions. A demon called unforgiveness will try to keep a person from forgiving and so on and so forth.
can you document demons named fear and demons named unforgiveness?
the Bible describes those as SIN.

this is classic deliverance ministry blah blah.
no wonder you didnt want to read or listen to Bob's stuff.

he named those very 'demons' you named:rolleyes:...he said he did all that stuff you're doing.

he's ashamed of it all now...but God worked for his good and for ours...for any who would learn from it.

ex from random sites (they're all the same):



"Often the names will be very unusual, sometimes names that will surprise the individual, most common is that the demon will reveal his function, i.e., FEAR, DOUBT, HATRED, etc. It is really not complicated. Once the demon is identified, there is just one question, "Do you have consent from Jehovah God to stay?" It is over at that point, if the spirit does not have consent, he will be commanded to go to the abyss and he will!

There can be any number of demons present and the number is not significant. One thousand will bow as quickly as one at the Name of Jesus Christ.

Symptons of Demonic Attack

A compulsive desire to blaspheme God.
A revulsion against the Bible, including a desire to tear it up or destroy it.
Compulsive thoughts of suicide or murder.
Deep feelings of bitterness and hatred toward others without reason: Jews, other races, the church, strong Christian leaders.
Any compulsive temptations which seek to force you to thoughts or behavior which you truly do not want to do or think.
Compulsive desires to tear other people down, even if it means lying to do so. Vicious cutting by the tongue.
Terrifying feelings of guilt even after honest confession is made to the Lord.
Certain physical symptoms which may appear suddenly or leave quickly and there are no physical or physiological reason.
Choking sensations.
Pains which seem to move around and for which there is no medical cause.
Feelings of tightness about the head or eyes.
Dizziness, blackouts, or fainting seizures.
Deep depression and despondency.
Sudden surges of violent rage, uncontrollable anger, or seething feelings of hostility.
Terrifying doubt of one's salvation even though they once knew the joy of salvation.
Seizures of panic or other fear that is terrifying.
Dreams or nightmares that are of a horrific nature and often ...recurring. Clairvoyant dreams that may even come true are most often demonic.
Abnormal or perverted sexual desires.
Questions and challenges to God's Word.
Sleep or eating disorders without physical cause.
Most compulsions and obsessions.
Rebellion and hatred for authority.
Bizarre terrifying thoughts that seem to come from nowhere and you cannot control them.
Fascination with the occult.
Involvement in criminal activity.
This not a complete list, but it is a good indicator.

In summary:

We will find the permissions they [the demons] have to be there and cancel each permission. (That is the purpose of the questionnaire, discover their permissions to be there)

We will pray a prayer together to cancel that permission.
We will locate the Prince, boss, etc. and destroy his kingdom.
We will command all demon spirits to repair all of their damage and then go to the abyss...

We will ask the Holy Spirit to fill every void that was in your life with His light and life. If that sounds pretty simple...actually it is. Jesus did all of the work, He paid all of the price, we will just claim it and enter into the full work of the cross and resurrection. Expect to be free!

Request Deliverance < click

SERIOUSLY???????

how about this one:



DEMONBUSTER.COM

DELIVERANCE MANUAL

You are a triune being - BODY, SOUL and SPIRIT. Your SOUL is your MIND, WILL and EMOTIONS.

BODY - Christians can have a sickness/disease just like the unSaved. That's caused by demons (if not caused by other factors).

SOUL - Do you have a bad temper? That's a demon. Is there mental illness in your family background? That is a demon. Do you have trouble serving God? That's a demon. Do you have problems with bad thoughts? That is a demon(s) in your mind, will or emotions.

SPIRIT - Demons cannot get into your SPIRIT, but, the demons surround your SPIRIT like a glass jar surrounds its contents, and you have trouble serving the Lord JESUS. The contents of the jar cannot get out until you remove the lid (demons). Deliverance can get rid of the demons.

BOYCE and BOICE are two demons that interfere with any electronic equipment, i.e., phone, computer, printer, automobile, etc. If something malfunctions, command these two demons to leave your equipment, in the name of Jesus. We get many emails saying this worked. If it does not work, demons are not causing the problem.

Know this - EVERYONE has demons, ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS. There is no Scripture that says this. It is just a matter of FACT. There is no Scripture that says you do NOT have demons. Jesus said the demons are living INSIDE of you, not OUTSIDE. Jesus also said the demons call your body their house . Do you live OUTSIDE of your house? Neither do your demons!

If you are not seeking help for yourself, your demons will get stirred up, especially your RELIGIOUS demons. If you are seeking help, learn how to get rid of demons here. Your demons will still get stirred up, trying to stop you from going on with Deliverance.

Now that you have read or heard all the milk sermons all your life, you are about to read the real meat of Christianity.:rolleyes:

Would you like help from being Depressed? Abused? Afraid? Tormented? Suicidal? Sick? Alcoholic? Addict? Obese? Witch? Satanist? Brotherhood? Want out of the occult or a cult? Hooked on porno? Dying? Diseased? Molester? Self-Abuse? Bi-polar? Etc.? Get Saved, then cast out these demons!

One Recommended Spiritual Warfare Prayer to pray at least daily

Print this out and pray it often. This is an anti-evil Prayer.

In the name of JESUS, I cover myself and the one reading this with the Blood of JESUS. I ask for giant warrior angels to protect us. As your war club and weapons of war, I break down, undam, and blow up all walls of protection around all witches, warlocks, wizards, satanists, sorcerers, and the like, and I break the power of all curses, hexes, vexes, spells, charms, fetishes, psychic prayers, psychic thoughts, all witchcraft, sorcery, magic, voodoo, all mind control, jinxes, potions, bewitchments, death, destruction, sickness, pain, torment, psychic power, psychic warfare, prayer chains, incense and candle burning, incantations, chanting, blessings, hoodoo, crystals, root works, and everything else being sent my way, or my family member's way, or any Deliverance Ministries way, and I return it, and the demons to the sender, SEVENFOLD, and I bind it to them by the Blood of Jesus, and I cut and burn their ungodly silver cord and lay lines, in JESUS' Name.

FREE DELIVERY (DELIVERANCE) END-TIME DELIVERANCE MINISTRY - DEMONBUSTER.COM DELIVERANCE MANUAL < click


who knew Alcoholic....Addict....Obese where DEMONS.
and my toaster acting up ....well....it has a demon in it.

bad breath....demon?
lint in my pocket? the demon of lint?
oh wow.

GET SERIOUS...this is a disgrace
 
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danschance

Guest
can you document demons named fear and demons named unforgiveness?
the Bible describes those as SIN.
Yes, I have great documentation:
and He [Jesus] asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. Mark5:9
Here you see that demons have names and thier names have significance to thier nature.


Demonbuster.com has extensive lists of demon's names and how they are grouped together. So if you want documentation, go there. Demons and their names and what they do is well known and well documented in any deliverance ministry.
 
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GRA

Guest
After listening for a couple thousand hours you knew who was bogus and who wasn't, first by experience, but more importantly by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Does this mean that the 'guidance of the Holy Spirit' did not "kick in" until "a certain amount of experience" was first obtained? ;)

:)
Are you joking or just trying to insult?
"No insults intended -- mainly just teasing, based on the wording of the sentence." :D


Early in my association with multis, I was like a an elephant in a rose garden so I didn't listen to the Lord very well. As a result, I made a lot of mistakes. I arrogantly “knew” all alters were demons and needed to be cast out, but over time I learned differently and listened to the Lord better. According to stillwaters, experience doesn’t count for much, but like it or not, every one of us is little more than the sum total of our experiences. Almost everything we do is based on earlier experiences because that is how we relate to the world we live in.
Yes - I believe "an alter being a demon" would be the rare case - at least, according to Fritz - if I recall correctly (and, I believe I do on this).

:)
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
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I hope you will pray that God leads her to the right person for help. God bless you for trying to help her. Her problems are probably for more complicated than the average pastor can deal with. Keep praying for her and sharing the gospel.

To give you some hope, I met a girl who was just as bad off. I chatted with her online. At first I had to type the name of Jesus as "J*sus because the demons in her recoiled at that name, every time. Her first trip to a church was a nightmare. They had a large cross at the front of the church which greatly annoyed her demons and she had to get up and leave. We got her to one of the best deliverance ministers and today she is in bible College with her husband and both plan on becoming ministers. So there is always hope and God hears our prayers.
I believe she needs deliverance. You should hear the stuff she says about Jesus. I have set her up to speak with someone and she is not willfully going to go. yes i still pray for her
 
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danschance

Guest
I believe she needs deliverance. You should hear the stuff she says about Jesus. I have set her up to speak with someone and she is not willfully going to go. yes i still pray for her
I'm glad she has you as a friend. If God can save me, he can save anyone whom He chooses.