Purgatory

[Cretien]

Is it real or myth?

Sometimes, I dream, and I am at a place I never been to before, see faces I never met, and sometimes, something happens and I sometimes see and hear certain people speaking about... waiting.

And, I also noticed, that if I was to... eat something in that dream, I wake up, or if, I took a "car" or "ride", I'll wake up.

Anyone else get this?

 

[psychomom]

er, i'll go with myth.

got anything from Scripture that supports the idea of purgatory?

 

[tanach]

Not all scripture is written nor has it ever been.

And besides if they don't want to believe it
they just read it the way they want to believe it.

Duh Im trying to unravel the above statement. If something is not written then its not scripture because it isn't written.
if its not written then there is no opportunity to believe or disbelieve it. So what someone wants to believe about it is irrelevant because it doesn't exist . It was Purgatory trying to work that out but least I tried!

 

[zoii]

Staking my life is a tad high - can I just bet an apple?

 

[tanach]

would I stake my life on what? If you have something intelligent to say try using plain English. Ive never been very good at riddles.

 

[zoii]

There is a limit to anyone's behaviour - I can see you're trolling and so u don't guess who it is - Its me that's reported you. All of us here want an enjoyable experience. We expect a discussion that isn't spiteful or aimed at trying to ridicule or make someone feel worse about themselves. Now I'll leave your comments in the hands of moderators.

 

[PennEd]

Purgatory was invented so the vatican can tell people if they give MONEY to them it will lessen their loved ones time in it, and they could also give MONEY to the catholic church in advance for THEMSELVES to spend less time in purgatory.

The entire concept is evil. It says you don't have to fully trust Jesus for salvation. You can spend an indeterminate amount of time suffering in purgatory then graduate to heaven. SICK!

 

[pottersclay]

well then I have a question, what are your thoughts on Abrahams bossom.
Jesus referred to this place and I know some sects of the Jews believed in it.
Now I know that it doesn't pertain to today but for the righteous that died before Christ's death we know by the veil that heavens door was closed.
And we also know that Jesus descended before ascending to set the captives free.
So what are your thoughts? Was this a place for old testament believers untill messiah came?

 

[mpaper345]

Is it real or myth?

Sometimes, I dream, and I am at a place I never been to before, see faces I never met, and sometimes, something happens and I sometimes see and hear certain people speaking about... waiting.

And, I also noticed, that if I was to... eat something in that dream, I wake up, or if, I took a "car" or "ride", I'll wake up.

Anyone else get this?

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment(Hebrews 9:27).

As soon as someone dies,judgment is already determined for them.If a person dies being in the truth,they will be with God and Jesus forever.If a person dies in their sins,there is no way to reverse it,and no way to be with God and Jesus.

Whatever state a person dies in,whether with God or not,they will stay in that state forever.

 

[atwhatcost]

Two thoughts I have as I read this thread:

1. How can anyone who claims to be a Christian even ask?

2. I vote this the most convoluted thread I've ever read, and that's saying a lot. (I suspect it's because a member was so banned even his/her posts disappeared, and... whoa doggie, if that happened, because I've never seen that happen before.) But because of that, it looks just about everyone accidentally took some acid.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

There's a search box in the upper left hand corner of your screen. Use it. This topic has been hashed "to death" already lol.

 

[atwhatcost]

well then I have a question, what are your thoughts on Abrahams bossom.
Jesus referred to this place and I know some sects of the Jews believed in it.
Now I know that it doesn't pertain to today but for the righteous that died before Christ's death we know by the veil that heavens door was closed.
And we also know that Jesus descended before ascending to set the captives free.
So what are your thoughts? Was this a place for old testament believers untill messiah came?

There maybe -- maybe, as in I'm not sure -- paradise, a lay station for believers until Judgement Day. I think this because Jesus told the thief on the cross that he'd be with him that day in paradise, not heaven. But I also don't think the earth has to be over before Judgment Day. I think Jesus needed to be seated at his Father's right hand to start it. I think he got in place when he ascended into heaven after dying though, so paradise was for OT people.

Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but there's absolutely no evidence they is a place to wait around in until God got around to forgiving a person -- unless we are talking here on earth as that waiting place.

 

[pottersclay]

Luke 16 :22-31 Abrahams bosom do you think this was an actually place for old testament believers?

 

[ThomistColin]

Its not a place, but the state in which a soul is totally purged and completed. Whether it is instantaneous or takes time, no one knows, but the basic doctrine is that when we die in the loving arms of Christ, that we are purged of all iniquity. No one who is without salvation goes through purgatory, only the saved. CS Lewis agreed with this doctrine. However, both he and I deny any such place as purgatory, only the state of being purged of imperfection after death.

 

[valiant]

well then I have a question, what are your thoughts on Abrahams bossom.
Jesus referred to this place and I know some sects of the Jews believed in it.
Now I know that it doesn't pertain to today but for the righteous that died before Christ's death we know by the veil that heavens door was closed.
And we also know that Jesus descended before ascending to set the captives free.
So what are your thoughts? Was this a place for old testament believers untill messiah came?

If this was so, where did Enoch go? Where did Elijah go? The dying thief went that day to Paradise, which is Heaven. Who says that there is a veil preventing men's spirits from going to Heaven? Not Scripture. Heb 10 refers to men ON EARTH seeking to enter His presence, not the spirits of the departed. The spirits of just men have been made perfect.

 

[atwhatcost]

Luke 16 :22-31 Abrahams bosom do you think this was an actually place for old testament believers?

Strange thing about that story from Jesus. Every time he told a story, he'd say, "this is a parable." He never said that about that one, leaving me to think it might have been something he really saw before coming to earth. Again, just a theory.

 

[atwhatcost]

Its not a place, but the state in which a soul is totally purged and completed. Whether it is instantaneous or takes time, no one knows, but the basic doctrine is that when we die in the loving arms of Christ, that we are purged of all iniquity. No one who is without salvation goes through purgatory, only the saved. CS Lewis agreed with this doctrine. However, both he and I deny any such place as purgatory, only the state of being purged of imperfection after death.

Of course Lewis agreed with that. He was Catholic. Still doesn't make it doctrine, nor true.

 

[pottersclay]

It's a hard one to consider, we know that the veil was torn from top to bottom at Christ death .
Which opened up heaven to all that believed. Jesus said he had come to set the captives free,could it be that this place was real? He descended first why? And as Jesus tells it Abraham comforts the person like there was a end to this place and he was waiting for something or someone. I know this doesn't exist any more but did it or is this a spiritual allegory?
If it is a true place I can see where the Catholics got purgatory in a way but then they got the words celebrate and celibate
Confused so......just kidding. Sorry couldn't resist.

​here come the stones......well deserved...sorry

 

[ThomistColin]

Of course Lewis agreed with that. He was Catholic. Still doesn't make it doctrine, nor true.

CS Lewis was a Protestant. JRR Tolkien was a Catholic. They were friends, dear friends, but not the same denomination.

 

[Magenta]

Strange thing about that story from Jesus. Every time he told a story, he'd say, "this is a parable." He never said that about that one, leaving me to think it might have been something he really saw before coming to earth. Again, just a theory.

Looking at Luke chapter 15, it is Luke who identifies the first story as a parable (the lost sheep) not Jesus, and then Jesus simply goes on to the next similar story about the lost coin, following that with the lost (prodigal) son, then on to the next, the unforgiving steward in chapter 16 (the only place where the story in question is found), which is followed by Pharasitical derisions and Jesus' responses to them, including talking about the law and adultery, followed by His going into the Abraham's bosom with Lazarus story. Some people want to claim it is not a parable simply because someone is named in it (Lazarus), but that fact alone is not enough to remove it from parable status. There are plenty of Scriptures that attest to the fact that the dead know nothing. The Bible compares death to sleep more than fifty times. Even Jesus called death, "sleep."