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To: Hi, second reply, probably my last for Today Rsanchezhopes
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
So take the rich man and Lazarus for example .
The things The Rich man did while on earth, were bad.
Lazarus was good.
Jesus in his teaching, about life after death, illustrates, their state, ( good or bad )
Hes really not illustrating the appearance of where they are.
Hes illustrating the state of their souls in Paradise . with figurative language after death.
Consider what Christ said the the guy on the other cross beside Him.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
( Just to mention this ; don't allow people to give you the " there is a comma there routine ".
In the Greek manuscripts this is translated from, there are no punctuation, so has no bearing on meaning . People have a tendency to change The actual bible, according to a denominational line .)
Speaking of Greek, you're going to have to account what the Greek words are actually, the KJV translators looked at.
Hell, that the rich man is said to be in is actually Hades. Its meaning is only understood by studying How the Bible teaches about Life after Death. No other source .
Hades means, simply, place or state, of departed souls .
The place is paradise. The state, is illustrated by Christ, with a divide between them, and fame .
Christ being The Living water, what was it the Rich man asked of Lazarus ? He asked water, on his touch to cool the flame .
Look at some of the Greek used here. The English just wont do it in this place. So you have to be sure.
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments,
and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Torments as used in this verse, is from Greek meaning: Touch Stone .
G931
βάσανος
basanos
bas'-an-os
Perhaps remotely from the same as G939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch stone,
that is, (by analogy) torture: - torment.
When you have a word like touch stone, its an analogy for the kind of torment hes going through.
You have to do some digging, but if i remember, a touch stone was a kind of stone used to test the value of rocks or something for mining precious metals .
Normally , the touch stone is strikes something, and depending on the mark left behind, you could determine then if there is anything of value there.
So, after dying, the Rich mans actions in life, has real consequence, by analogy tried in the fire, and found wanting .
The Rich is naked, to draw on another teaching. Since he is without eternal life, we can draw on Paul's language in 1 Corinthians 15: he is Mortal ( Look up the word Mortal in a Greek Dictionary of the Bible. I means liable to die. )
Since 1 Corinthians 15 is about the end, towards verses 50 and on we can use Revelations language, the rich man is considered Dead. Again Hades in Christs teaching, concerning the Rich man, is about the state of his soul after death.
There was no sleeping or waiting for that to happen. It was immediate.
So that is the initial Judgment after death of both the Just and Unjust.
But is that The Great White Throne Judgment ? No. That happens ONLY at the End of The Lords Day which brings about the Second death ( The soul perishes in the Lake of Fire ) .God being a consuming Fire.
The state of ones soul is taught many places with different language, figures of speech even, and it can be confusing if you're not careful. But its simple because its all teaching the same thing .
Example : 1 Thess 4 :13
Paul opens up the subject addressing those mourning or concerned for the dead Those who have died.
Like the Lazarus, and yes even the rich man They rise first Paul teaches .
Because they died first. Absent from the body present with the Lord .
The bible often uses euphemisms , or figures, to expresses death of the body, even the spiritual state of ones soul.
Sleep is the euphemisms often used for death in the OT and NT . Paul used it to, it simply means to die .
(Its not doctrine of sleeping .) Its used of the good and bad in the OT, even of Jehoiakim ; he had no burial
2 Kings 24:6 So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.
Back to the rich man, and getting a better grasp of what Touch Stone means .
Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;
and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,
that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,
and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Jesus was addressing Christians in that verse. The kind of Christians towards the end times. So that should be a sobering warning from Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
So take the rich man and Lazarus for example .
The things The Rich man did while on earth, were bad.
Lazarus was good.
Jesus in his teaching, about life after death, illustrates, their state, ( good or bad )
Hes really not illustrating the appearance of where they are.
Hes illustrating the state of their souls in Paradise . with figurative language after death.
Consider what Christ said the the guy on the other cross beside Him.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
( Just to mention this ; don't allow people to give you the " there is a comma there routine ".
In the Greek manuscripts this is translated from, there are no punctuation, so has no bearing on meaning . People have a tendency to change The actual bible, according to a denominational line .)
Speaking of Greek, you're going to have to account what the Greek words are actually, the KJV translators looked at.
Hell, that the rich man is said to be in is actually Hades. Its meaning is only understood by studying How the Bible teaches about Life after Death. No other source .
Hades means, simply, place or state, of departed souls .
The place is paradise. The state, is illustrated by Christ, with a divide between them, and fame .
Christ being The Living water, what was it the Rich man asked of Lazarus ? He asked water, on his touch to cool the flame .
Look at some of the Greek used here. The English just wont do it in this place. So you have to be sure.
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments,
and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Torments as used in this verse, is from Greek meaning: Touch Stone .
G931
βάσανος
basanos
bas'-an-os
Perhaps remotely from the same as G939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch stone,
that is, (by analogy) torture: - torment.
When you have a word like touch stone, its an analogy for the kind of torment hes going through.
You have to do some digging, but if i remember, a touch stone was a kind of stone used to test the value of rocks or something for mining precious metals .
Normally , the touch stone is strikes something, and depending on the mark left behind, you could determine then if there is anything of value there.
So, after dying, the Rich mans actions in life, has real consequence, by analogy tried in the fire, and found wanting .
The Rich is naked, to draw on another teaching. Since he is without eternal life, we can draw on Paul's language in 1 Corinthians 15: he is Mortal ( Look up the word Mortal in a Greek Dictionary of the Bible. I means liable to die. )
Since 1 Corinthians 15 is about the end, towards verses 50 and on we can use Revelations language, the rich man is considered Dead. Again Hades in Christs teaching, concerning the Rich man, is about the state of his soul after death.
There was no sleeping or waiting for that to happen. It was immediate.
So that is the initial Judgment after death of both the Just and Unjust.
But is that The Great White Throne Judgment ? No. That happens ONLY at the End of The Lords Day which brings about the Second death ( The soul perishes in the Lake of Fire ) .God being a consuming Fire.
The state of ones soul is taught many places with different language, figures of speech even, and it can be confusing if you're not careful. But its simple because its all teaching the same thing .
Example : 1 Thess 4 :13
Paul opens up the subject addressing those mourning or concerned for the dead Those who have died.
Like the Lazarus, and yes even the rich man They rise first Paul teaches .
Because they died first. Absent from the body present with the Lord .
The bible often uses euphemisms , or figures, to expresses death of the body, even the spiritual state of ones soul.
Sleep is the euphemisms often used for death in the OT and NT . Paul used it to, it simply means to die .
(Its not doctrine of sleeping .) Its used of the good and bad in the OT, even of Jehoiakim ; he had no burial
2 Kings 24:6 So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.
Back to the rich man, and getting a better grasp of what Touch Stone means .
Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;
and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,
that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,
and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Jesus was addressing Christians in that verse. The kind of Christians towards the end times. So that should be a sobering warning from Christ.
